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The W - Current Events & Politics - Who Should The Demos Run In 2004? (Page 2)
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OlFuzzyBastard
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Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#21 Posted on
BOLD PREDICTION: The 2004 Democratic nominee for the Presidency will be...

John McCain.

Discuss.



LIBERAL - adj: abundant, ample, bounteous, copious, lavish, plentiful, big-hearted, bountiful, charitable, free, generous, indulgent, lavish, magnanimous, munificent, open-handed, philanthropic, unselfish, unstinting, broad-minded, easygoing, enlightened, fair-minded, humanitarian, impartial, lenient, magnanimous, open-minded, permissive, tolerant, unbiased, unbigoted, unprejudiced
-------Oxford Paperback Thesaurus
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
There's a thread for this already, I think.

Right here. I posted an article there you might find amusing or interesting, OFB, and it's germaine to your speculation.

Dahak: The Hispanic population is pretty segmented, but as far as I know the Cubans are the only ones voting consistently Republican. The Dems have pretty much locked up other immigrant/minority communities.



Damn your eyes!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#23 Posted on
I decent idea OFB.. but from what I know about John McCain, he is pretty well a confirmed Republican. I voted for him a few times in Arizona, and he has always run from the more moderate Republican position. He is not a hard-core conservative, but a large majority of the Republican populations feels as he does.
He will run Republican, but he will get trounced, sadly. He is a great Senator... just not really extreme enough for either party.
Hell, if a guy that close to the middle (sorry.. Clinton was nowhere near the middle) ever got either party's nomination... it would be a virtual landslide in his favor...




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1942 days
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#24 Posted on
Palpatine I know that minorities vote more often for the Democrats than the GOP. But my point is they don't bother to vote. Of course most people don't. But if there was a Hispanic Veep canidate that got more minorities to vote then that would be a far bigger Democratic gain. I further picked the Hipanics because they are fairly conservative about a lot of issues giving moderate conservatives a more acceptable choice.
The smaller percentage of voters the better the GOP does since the geezers always vote and usually vote Rep. But a fairly wacko minority canidate like Jackson would probably do more harm than good. You need to get a canidate that won't do anything too eccentric to embarrass the ticket.
As a Republican I think the GOP should jettison Chaney and replace him with Colin Powel. Go for the jugular once and for all. If the GOP could get rid of the rich white man image the Democrats really would have little to offer minorities. Plus how old would Chaney be in 08? Like 71? God just imagine it now. Chaney vs. Hillary Clinton. How exciting. The old rich man vs. the woman who got there because of the man she used to screw.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    BOLD PREDICTION: The 2004 Democratic nominee for the Presidency will be...

    John McCain.

    Discuss.








Problems with the idea.
1) He's up for re-election to the Senate in 2004. If he runs for President, he'll lose his spot in the Senate.
2) He might be a pain for Bush, but most of his leanings are Republican.
3) Could he give Bush a good run in the general election, yes. However, there is no way he comes out of a Democratic Primary. Far to left of center voters in the primary for McCain to win. That, and running McCain could be viewed as conceding that the Democratic party has developed no viable candidates.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#26 Posted on
If we can elect Ronald Reagan as president, we can sure elect Dick Chaney as vice-president.

As for the whole "Hispanic" thing, who do you have in mind? It's an idea and all, but I'm pretty sure there aren't any democratic Hispanic Senators, and only one Democratic Hispanic Governor (Bill Richardson) and he just got elected. Other than him, there's maybe Bob Menendez (I think that's the name) a Congressman from New Jersey who just won the 3rd-ranking leadership slot, and Cruz Bustamente, the Lt. Governor of California. I can't think of any other remotely viable Democratic Hispanic vice-presidential candidates.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
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#27 Posted on
And the other problem with that is that there is actually a large number of Hispanic Republicans... that is one ethnic group that the GOP actually has a good hold on...
And I seriously doubt having Colin Powell as VP would do anything for the Republicans "Racial" image. I mean, the man is the Secratary of State! That is no chump position... and I remember talking to people who STILL thought Republican's were against minorities... I even heard one chick call Powell "Bush's House Nigger."
Fact is that there really is not much that Republicans can do to shed the racist stygma, even though in my opinion they are the least racial of the parties...




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Remember this: Dick Chaney isn't running for President in 2008. So forget about all of that.

The GOP's leading contenders for the nomination in 2008(yes I know that it's a fully SIX years out, but it'll probably be the next realistically contested election, and besides these are only my views) are as follows, in no particular order.

1. Gov. Jeb Bush(FL)
2. Gov. Bob Ehrlich(MD)
3. Sen George Allen(VA)
4. Gov. Mitt Romney(MA)
5. Outgoing Rep. JC Watts(OK)
6. Secretary of State Colin Powell
7. Rep. Chris Cox(CA)
8. Gov. Linda Lingle(HI)
9. Rep. JD Hayworth(AZ)
10. Rudy Guiliani(NY)
11. Gov. Rick Perry(TX)

I think everybody knows who I'll support in that contest...
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
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#29 Posted on
I think Guiliani is a threat in 2004 to Bush.... actually. I seriously would not be the least bit surprised to see a VP move on his part... Either to Powell or Guiliani. Cheany is getting old, and they need someone in the VP spot who could benifit from that by running for president in 2008.




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 7 days
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#30 Posted on
My comments on these:

1. Gov. Jeb Bush(FL)

No way, unless Bush somehow loses in 2004. Three different Bush's (don't take this to mean just 'Bush's' is could be any family) in 20 years, and 12 years in a row smacks a bit too much of Royalty for America. It's just not something this country will do.

2. Gov. Bob Ehrlich(MD)

I'll let this one go, because I know you're a big fan. And you were right about him winning the governorship.

3. Sen George Allen(VA)

Not a chance. Way too right-wing. MIght get the nomination, but would get destroyed by any Democrat right of Al Sharpton.

4. Gov. Mitt Romney(MA)

Would be a good call if he wasn't a Mormon. I really don't see this country electing a Mormon president.

5. Outgoing Rep. JC Watts(OK)

If he isn't interested in being the third-ranking Congressman, I don't see why he'd be interested in being President. Also, by 2008 he'll be off the political map or 6 years, unless he gets Don Nickle's Senate seat.

6. Secretary of State Colin Powell

His for the taking.

7. Rep. Chris Cox(CA)

He'll have to knock off Boxer first.

8. Gov. Linda Lingle(HI)

That's an intersting call. I actually could see that. Props.

9. Rep. JD Hayworth(AZ)

Maybe if McCain doesn't run for Senate again, and he takes that seat. Congress to president is next to impossible, especially if you don't have a national fundraising and organizational base (like Dick Gephart has).

10. Rudy Guiliani(NY)

This is a weird one. Now he's a hero. In 6 years, when this has worn off, he's going to be way too liberal for the GOP primary. Remember, on a lot of social positions he's squarly in line with the Barbra Steisand. Also, someone is going to make an ad with a picture of him in the Gay Pride parade surrounded by half-naked transvestites and men in pink hot pants, and run it in the South Carolina Primary. And that will be the end of that.

On the other hand, he's campaigning a lot for folks, and getting a LOT of favors he can call in later. He'll be able to raise a ton of money and build a national organization without much problem over the next 6 years (if he doesn't run for Senate or Governor, or get a cabinet position). But I still don't see it happening. Especially if he runs for office in New York, which would entail him re-iterating his liberal positions on social issues. I mean, they aren't liberal for the West Village, but they sure are for your typical GOP primary voter.

One last thing: rumor had it that Guiliani didn't get offered the Homeland Security position because Bush didn't want anyone else having a high profile in the whole "war on terror" thing. Remember, Guiliani is a control freak, and he's in love with the media. Guiliani in the cabinet takes a lot of star power, media time, and control out of the hands of Bush. Which is the reason why you'll never see him in the Cabinet.

11. Gov. Rick Perry(TX)

This guy does not have what it takes. Plus, see "Bush's" above, only substitute "Texas."

Other GOP 2008 Candidates that I'd say are a bit more feasible:

The south Carolina GOP wonder twins, Lindsey Graham and/or (probably or) Mark Sanford. This is more likely a 2012 or 2016 thing, but one of them is running sometime.

Former Montana Gov. Mark Racicot, although I don't think he's interested.

Ohio Gov. Bob Taft III. Or is that IV?

I wouldn't be surprised if Lamar! gives it another shot either.






Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
Lamar rules, what with those lumberjack shirts.

I read somewhere that Powell was the primary source for Bob Woodward's latest book, leaking all manner of material fairly damaging to Bush, or just griping about him in general. Besides, the nomination was already his to take once, and he more or less didn't want it, so I'd rule him out.



Damn your eyes!
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

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Last activity: 1595 days
#32 Posted on
Well, Moe it's not like all Veep's were well known before they became the VP. Senator to VP to failed Presidential candidate isn't set in the Constitution it just seems that way.
Relatively obscure (at the time) VP I can think of off hand areTruman, Bush Sr, and Quayle. And if you would reread my original post I said that if the things go well in the next 2 years then the GOP could put someone in as long as they weren't an embarassment and have a very good chance of winning.
What I was suggesting is a preemptive strike. When Mondale and Feraro ran in 84 you could tell it was a desparate ploy against a popular president. But if the party in power switch VP in their reelection bid it wouldn't look like desparation but an attempt to widen their party.
If the elections stay dual white guy tickets even less people will vote. In 20 years we might be down to 25% or less unless both parties make an effort to appeal to more people.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 1 day
#33 Posted on
The "we can elect Dick Chaney" statement was just a crack about Ronald Reagan being old, not really a thought-out critique of your VP idea. It's tough for me to pass up a chance to make fun of the Gipper. Sorry.

Truman and Quayle were both Senators. Bush Sr. was a well-known Congressman, held a nationwide appointed office (head of the CIA), and had been on the scene quite some time.

I'd say Gerald Ford (although high-ranking in House), Sargant Shriver, Spiro Agnew, and, especially, Geraldine Ferraro (Queens county political machine hack who killed 4 years as a House backbencher) were the most obscure VP nominees of modern times.

I'm not denying there might be a Hispanic Democrat out there I'm missing (maybe someone in the military?), but the pickings are slim. I'd say they're almost greater on the GOP side.

(edited by MoeGates on 21.11.02 0937)


Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 395 days
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#34 Posted on

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    My comments on these:

    1. Gov. Jeb Bush(FL)

    No way, unless Bush somehow loses in 2004. Three different Bush's (don't take this to mean just 'Bush's' is could be any family) in 20 years, and 12 years in a row smacks a bit too much of Royalty for America. It's just not something this country will do.

    >







Substitute the name Kennedy for Bush. The Democrats did consider going John to Bobby to Ted as a political dynasty.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 7 days
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#35 Posted on
Substitute the name Kennedy for Bush. The Democrats did consider going John to Bobby to Ted as a political dynasty.

Yeah, but it didn't happen. That's the point. With the Kennedy's, in 20 year period (from 1960-1980), you've got 3 years of an actual presidency, plus 2 losing runs.

Under the "W for 8 years, then Jeb," plan, in a 28 year period, from 1980 - 2008, you've got 12 years of presidency, 8 years of Vice-Presidency, plus 2 losing runs, plus Jeb's 2008 run. That's a lot more.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1186 days
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    I'd say Gerald Ford (although high-ranking in House), Sargant Shriver, Spiro Agnew, and, especially, Geraldine Ferraro (Queens county political machine hack who killed 4 years as a House backbencher) were the most obscure VP nominees of modern times


Ford was never a nominee; he was selected to replace Agnew after his resignation. Ford is the only President never to have been elected to President or Vice-President.

Agnew was selected because he was a Republican who was Governor of Maryland. Nixon ran as a conservative and needed to select a moderate to liberal Republican(i.e. Agnew) to appease the Rockafeller wing of the GOP.

Shriver was the only guy whou could/would take it. After Eagelton dropped off the ticket after the convention, everybody already saw the writing on the wall that said McGovern was going to be a disaster, so Shriver was the best they could do.

And yes, Ferraro was worthless...
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#37 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by MoeGates
      I'd say Gerald Ford (although high-ranking in House), Sargant Shriver, Spiro Agnew, and, especially, Geraldine Ferraro (Queens county political machine hack who killed 4 years as a House backbencher) were the most obscure VP nominees of modern times


    Ford was never a nominee; he was selected to replace Agnew after his resignation. Ford is the only President never to have been elected to President or Vice-President.



Well, expect for...

Nah, too easy.



LIBERAL - adj: abundant, ample, bounteous, copious, lavish, plentiful, big-hearted, bountiful, charitable, free, generous, indulgent, lavish, magnanimous, munificent, open-handed, philanthropic, unselfish, unstinting, broad-minded, easygoing, enlightened, fair-minded, humanitarian, impartial, lenient, magnanimous, open-minded, permissive, tolerant, unbiased, unbigoted, unprejudiced
-------Oxford Paperback Thesaurus
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Well, expect for...

    Nah, too easy.



It's been two years since he lost; get over it already.
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#39 Posted on
Jeez- Shall we just completely throw out the electoral college and completely disenfranchise every single voter who does not happen to live in a big city?
Bush WON the election. Plain and simple, legal, and definitive. And there are JUST as many, if not more, questionable acts by the Democrats that turned votes towards Gore (the news calling the election for Gore in Florida before the polls even closed in the western, more Republican areas?)- so get over it already!
If you want to talk about illegitimate... talk about The illegitimate control of the House that the Democrats have enjoyed for the last two years...




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

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#40 Posted on
As for the Dems selecting a Hispanic candidate, from what I've heard, Bush might be thinking of a Hispanic conservative to take Scalia's seat on the Supreme Court once Scalia replaces a retiring Rehnquist. Interesting way to steal thunder, if ya ask me.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of Punkinhead:

"I'm gonna go dig up a date!"
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When's it time for Kucinich, Shapton, Mosely-Braun, Edwards and "Joltin Joe" Lieberman to join him? Do any of these people honestly think they're going to win?
- OlFuzzyBastard, Graham: In our Out? (2003)
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