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The W - Pro Wrestling - When was Jericho's official funeral? (Page 2)
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Since: 6.7.02
From: Germany

Since last post: 2142 days
Last activity: 1785 days
#21 Posted on
Yep, that's a great idea, and I think that Jericho and Angle would be on top of that list, maybe Angle a little better. But it's funny that you mention Booker T here, because he has the same problem as Y2J has, he came into the WWE as the WCW champion, and didn't win a single PPV match for a year, even turning into a jobber for people like Spike Dudley. Maybe Vince holds them down for being not "born in WWE" or something.

Damned, I'm becoming way too suspicious here........

"Wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulders anymore, you gotta hit them with a sledgehammer!"

Since: 26.7.02

Since last post: 5658 days
Last activity: 5651 days
#22 Posted on
Maybe Vince holds them down for being not "born in WWE" or something.

I don't know about that. Remember Jericho's first night in the WWF? He had that great entrance and faced off verbally with The Rock. I know he had to feud with Road Dogg after that but he received a pretty decent push. I think Trips was jealous of him all along and used the Chyna thing as an excuse.

Since: 25.7.02
From: NYC

Since last post: 6006 days
Last activity: 5992 days
#23 Posted on

    Originally posted by Chico Santana
    I wish there was a system to chart wrestlers, say a 1 to 10 meter for both mic and in ring skills. Benoit and RVD have bad mic skills, Kane is good in both areas.quoteend]

    RVD needs a manager badly. When was the last time a face had a manager?! I'm drawing a blank....valets don't count because they don't talk that much but a real face with a manager....Paul Bearer and the Undertaker back in 96?!

    And how are Kane's mic skills any good?! When have you ever heard a good long Kane promo?!

count olaf

Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 5066 days
Last activity: 5063 days
#24 Posted on
Oh boy, here we go again, with the "Jericho's being held back" laments. Guys, give me a break! Move on please! Jericho was the first ever undispusted champ, and he held the title for a long time- 4 months? That's an eternity by today's standards. It's changed three times in the 4 months since he lost it. Now, he's slipped down the card a bit (although he seemed to be in the main event of raw as well as in the main event of his final smackdown- is the main event a demotion?), well so what? Not everybody can be on top at once. Right now other people are involved in chasing the title and Jericho seems to be headed to a program with the Nature Boy, a legend of the industry, who will certainly put Jericho over, possible giving him a major rub if it turns out to be a Flair's final match.

As for the argument that he needs to cheat to win- he's a heel. He's supposed to cheat to win. That's what heels do.

And your concerns that his finishers look weak- you're absolutely right, they do. Am I supposed to be impressed by the lionsault from the second rope when half the company seems to be flying from the top? The walls of Jericho looked impressive 4 years ago in WCW, but it seems to have simply run it's course. Just be thankful he's still trying to get over with the breakdown and the bulldog, which seems to be perfectly appropriate for women's matches. Who's fault is it that his moveset is stale and unimpressive? Vince? HHH? No, if Jericho needs a new finisher, Jericho should be working on a new finisher. Clearly, he's content with what he's got.

Finally, Jericho is a little guy compared to the rest of the main event. To me, his best days were with the WCW cruiserweight division. It was acceptable for him to run over Malenko and Rey and the rest of the gang, because they were his size. In the main event, he is tiny. HHH had at last 6 inches on him when they were face to face on Monday. So do Rocky and Booker, not to mention Taker. RVD, Benoit, and Angle are only slightly taller, but IMO Benoit has a much more convincing moveset, RVD is more entertaining, and Angle is the total package.

Jericho should be thankful that he has had such success in WWE. The fans got behind him, turned him face, and pushed him to the top with such gusto that no backstage politician could stop him. He got to wear the gold. Unfortunately, his act got repetitive and tired.

Sorry that was so long, but the Jericho laments tend to bug me. I guess that's because I see him as a poor man's Eddy Guerrero, who will never receive the repeated pushes Y2J has received.

(edited by count olaf on 7.8.02 2340)
Boudin rouge

Since: 2.1.02
From: Pittsburgh PA

Since last post: 3666 days
Last activity: 873 days
#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by BretHart1985

      Originally posted by Chico Santana
      I wish there was a system to chart wrestlers, say a 1 to 10 meter for both mic and in ring skills. Benoit and RVD have bad mic skills, Kane is good in both areas.quoteend]

      RVD needs a manager badly. When was the last time a face had a manager?! I'm drawing a blank....valets don't count because they don't talk that much but a real face with a manager....Paul Bearer and the Undertaker back in 96?!

      And how are Kane's mic skills any good?! When have you ever heard a good long Kane promo?!

    Kane's mic skills are good because of the character he has. He is able to get the crowd into him whenever he says something, and that is really quite impressive. That's just my humble opinion.

    What a Manuever!

    Ross During Jeff's Ladder Match, after the KO chairshot:

Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 92 days
Last activity: 91 days
#26 Posted on
You know what I find funny is that you guys were saying the same thing about Jeff Hardy and Triple H a little over a year ago. It didn't take that bandwagon long to empty, did it?

Jericho had one of the better Championship runs in awhile and that still didn't make you guys happy. He's not going to put Stunners on everybody everynight. Not even Austin was winning that way when he was a heel. You really have to make up your minds and decide at what point are you going to be happy. I would hate Jericho just as much as Triple H if the WWE pushed him down our throats the way you all seem to want them to.

Lap cheong

Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 4985 days
Last activity: 4765 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by humanmeal

      Originally posted by evilwaldo
      OMG let's just give Jericho the WWE title and give him a 5 year run where he goes over everybody. Would that satisfy you?

    Sure! It seems to be working great for your current hero, HHH, and it worked great for your last icon, the Hulkster.


Actually, I don't like HHH and Hogan is passable in his current role. Jericho is one of my favorites and I am sure he is happy with his role. Not only is he one of the top stars but he gets to pursue his hobby, Fozzy, as well.

These commercials are superfine because they pay for the production costs of putting CHRIS MOTHERFUCKING BENOIT on my GODDAMN TV SCREEN! I will GO GREYHOUND! I am thinking OUTSIDE THE BUN! – Dean Rasmussen 8/1/2002 Smackdown Workrate Report

Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 338 days
Last activity: 1 day
#28 Posted on
Jericho's Undisputed title win and subsequent run (not being the show's main focus all the time, and cheating to win constantly) is an almost exact mirror of what Kurt Angle did the year before, winning the title in an upset/fluke/screwy match and then holding it for months while convincing the fans that he might lose it any given night. And that bodes well for Jericho, because look where Angle is now.

No no, Angle's in a good spot! Sheesh. Seriously, he's been built up as a serious force lately, he wins most of the matches he's in, and he was even going toe to toe with the Undertaker in the recent feud, as opposed to cheating to get the advantage over him. He had periods where he dominated the freaking Undertaker, and even made him tap out once. Next year, Jericho should be in the same position. Right now, he can be "held down by HHH" and feud in the midcard with guys like RVD in good matches, just like Angle did with Chris Benoit last year.. by this time next year, we'll see what kind of position Chris Jericho is in. I don't think he'll be going toe to toe with the Undertaker (just because, face it, he's tiny), but he should be in a very favourable position overall.

Since: 27.7.02

Since last post: 5961 days
Last activity: 5906 days
#29 Posted on
I don't know about all the backstage stuff that supposedly goes on so I won't comment about that.

I don't think anyone's too small for the main event, if he is good enough.

People that are pissed that HHH interrupted Jericho's promo on RAW need to understand Jericho's character better. **Jericho didn't do anything about it because he talks big but has to have an advantage to back it up.** He's supposed to be an annoying, whiney, chickenshit, pesky LITTLE brat.(If your pissed HHH called him little - seriously, if you got over your anti-HHH schtik, you'd see he was exposing part of Jericho's character to the audience.) He IS a bitter little man. As far as Jericho not doing anything about it, well, he's not supposed to dominate - he's supposed to take his shots at an opportune time and book it "like a scalded dog." He is *supposed* to look like a pussy. That's kinda the point. Despite the fact that he's a pussy, he is in the upper card and wins matches ever now and again, and the audience hates him for that.

And anyone who's upset that Jericho jobbed to Cena on PPV. Read the interview with Chris at It was JERICHO's idea. Sheesh.

Having said that, I think the bookers need to do more to make sure that Jericho is able to run away cleanly more often. It should be a chase with Jericho, and I think he gets caught too often.

Regardless, he still entertains me and in the end that's all I really care about.

"And in front of the entire world, I want to show my little boy that sometimes - just sometimes, you have to FIGHT to be a man." - Michael S. Hickenbottom, the man who does not take part in angles that conflict with his religion, swearing violent revenge on HHH in full view of his two-year-old son. 11:06 PM, EST. 08/05/02.

Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1203 days
Last activity: 78 days
#30 Posted on
Faust, the only problem with your analysis is that the same dynamic has occured between them regardless of what their roles in the promotion were. When Jericho was the hard charging, never backing down underdog HHH still made him his bitch repeatedly. No matter what their characters are built up as, the result seems to always be exactly the same, which if it's not due to backstage politics than is simply very poor character development and storytelling.

You never know when you'll meet that special someone... the someone that's mysteriously blind to your flaws. or, you know, stupid enough not to realize that yes, you really are that cynical.
The Tino Standard

Since: 2.1.02
From: Ohio University (originally hailing from Concord, OH)

Since last post: 5604 days
Last activity: 5514 days
#31 Posted on
I won't claim to know or understand all the backstage happenings of the WWE, but seriously, even with what I'm seeing on camera now between HHH and Jericho is starting to seem ridiculous.

Just the way that HHH treats Jericho on camera. The idea that the Jericho character is HHH character's bitch is SPOT ON. That promo Monday night said it all. HHH had no real reason to think Jericho would do that to Michaels. The excuse provided was flimsy at best. It was basically like he came out to say, "Oh, thanks for coming over to Raw like I did. Just want to let you know that no matter which show you're on, I'm still going to treat you like a bitch."

I remember watching the Hell in the Cell match between these two a couple months ago. For that matter, the WrestleMania title match too. Watching them with Jericho as the heel and HHH as the face, it just seemed wrong. Those crowds were not into it at ALL.

I just wish somebody with some legit standing in the company could see this and say, "Hey, they are supposed to be cheering for HHH here, yet everybody is sitting on their hands. You know, when the face/heel dynamic was switched with these two a couple years ago, the crowds went NUTS. Maybe people REALLY AREN'T INTO HHH. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, people actually want to see Jericho go over this guy."

I seriously wish that one of these days, karma could come around and kick HHH right in his steroid needle-poked ass. Hey, it happened to Big Poochie. Why not one more time?

Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Whenever Triple H and Chris Jericho get into the ring for a match together, you know who is going to win. That's what we call a one-sided feud, folks. One-sided feuds are bad, when you can call the winner with absolute certainty. And you can even pretty much guess that Jericho's going to look like a bitch in the process.

By contrast, the Benoit-Jericho feud in 2000-01 was stellar. And apart from the fact that both are very, very talented wrestlers, when those two locked up you couldn't predict the winner with absolute certainty. Yes, Jericho was the face and Benoit the heel, but neither man was ever booked to look like a complete wimp. On the contrary, the heel Benoit was booked to be a vicious warrior, whereas Jericho was looked at as the never-say-quit underdog. And when you consider that Benoit and Jericho's feud pretty much ended with neither man winning decisively, you have to stand back and say, “Damn. THAT was a good feud.”

But let's keep in mind that Triple H is in a higher position in WWE than Jericho is. HHH has had many an opportunity to help put Jericho over and help him take that next step into true superstardom, just like The Rock and Mick Foley did for Triple H only about three years ago.

But nooo. Triple H has to continually make Chris Jericho his bitch every time he steps into the ring with him. You know, come to think of it, when was the last time Triple H ever gave back to the business at all? The Rock has put many people over when they needed the rub. So did Steve Austin. When was the last time that someone “getting the rub” from Triple H resulted in anything more than that man getting his ass handed to him?

It could be the writers' fault, I don't know. But what I do know is that if Triple H wanted to help put someone over, he would. He hasn't, so I have to assume, based on circumstantial evidence, that he doesn't want to. That he's more interested in protecting his spot than in helping WWE build new superstars.

“You read about all these terrorists -- most of them came here legally, but they hung around on these expired visas, some for as long as 10-15 years. Now, compare that to Blockbuster; you are two days late with a video and those people are all over you. Let's put Blockbuster in charge of immigration.”

E-mail joke letter, 7/25/02

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

Net Hack Slasher

Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 5167 days
Last activity: 3587 days
#33 Posted on
I Got the perfect example of Triple H undermining Chris Jericho. There's no excuse of "being in character" or backstage heresy. It was live on tap in a shoot interview on WrestleMania X8 Weekend on TSN's Off The Record (I don't have the exact quote but believe me I'm not going to exaggerate this is pretty much what HHH said)

Question: "Your part of a double Main Event with Jericho. Do you think Jericho right now can be considered a true main event superstar like yourself, rock, hogan, Austin, Taker?"

HHH: "Oh, he's close. He's almost right there. Just maybe a couple of changes here or there and he could be a true main event superstar"

ME: "WHat the Phuck? Did he just say the Undisputed World Champion isn't a true main eventer. Did he just say that the guy he's going to main event WrestleMania isn't in his league. Did he just say that on National TV". How do you defend that? Even if it's his honest feelings, You don't SAY IT!... How would he like it if wrestlers go off on shows and say the suspect he has a spot because he's porking Stepho. Or even better when his name comes up say, oh the years of steroid abuse is really catching up to him and his body seems to be breaking down. I wonder how he'd like that honesty!

(I'm guessing he had "how to do OTR tips" from his former bitch chyna when she said Trish was hired only for her looks. Umm Chyna and why were you hired for? Isn't because you looked like a freakish manbeast. Oh unlike Chyna, Trish didn't have to sleep her way into the WWF's door)

On screen the most obvious of how little to no respect H has for Jericho was the hell in the cell. When right after the "grueling" match which H won of course and Ross was putting it over saying "both men will never be the same" and "there both bodies must be hurtin so bad." Triple H on cue gets up stands above Jericho and does his steroid pose. While Jericho's face first against the top of the cage with blood pouring out of him... Talk about insult to injury H wins a match that he has no right or deserved to win and above that he had to piss on Jericho by getting in his poses.

God did Jericho deserve to win that match. THat emotional speech on the Smackdown before the PPV about "him putting away the fun Y2J persona for the night and revealing the REAL Chris Jericho" was as good as a hype interview I've ever seen. To bad any Chris Jericho will always be HHH's personal jobbing bitch... Because we had to have a broken down H win the match and go onto another World Title feud and putting on an awful build/ match with the Taker. While Jericho is in matches with Mark Henry /Farrooq, and loses in the first match of the KOTR PPV.

But saying all this I'm sure it's all a big coincidence. Also a coincidence that when Jericho won the World Title, HGH was on the shelf. And more coincidence is that just a couple of months after his return H beat Jericho for the title and a couple of months after WM H kicked Jericho in the teeth again at the hell in a cell for good measure. Wow with so many coincidences, I thought there might have been a pattern somewhere. Oh well.

(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 8.8.02 0440)

I don't get it, everyone loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rats milk?
Texas Kelly
Lap cheong

Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 501 days
Last activity: 113 days
#34 Posted on
I'm not going to comment on heat between Jericho & the Evil One, but I'd just like to point out all of the following, which all backs up my continued contention that Jericho should not have lost the title at Wrestlemania.

-- The crowd was almost completely & totally dead for the title match. Yes, a lot of that has to do with the WWF's brain-dead decision to put the title match on last (Hogan/Rock should have been the main event, and we all know), but if HHH was truly over as a face, that would not have happened.

-- The "feud" was blown off a *week* later in a meaningless rematch everyone knew HHH would win by pinning Stephanie to end the *real* feud that drove the Wrestlemania match (and made Jericho look absolutely meaningless in the process).

-- At Backlash, Jericho did not have a match. In the main event, Jericho interfered in the match, only to have Hogan no-sell his attack and HHH beat him up for no reason, while UT instead got to play the deciding role. Oh, and HHH lost the title, which was a testament to how over he was as a face.

-- It was widely accepted that HHH had nothing to gain by winning the Hell in the Cell match at Judgment Day, and, in fact, it was agreed that a clean job to Jericho would do wonders for his face run by making him seem more human. Jericho, on the other hand, desperately needed the credibility that would come from a win over HHH. So what does the WWF do?

1) Have Jericho dominate the match, have HHH mount a comeback, only to take the big bump and get pinned.

2) Have a particularly even match, with a tense spot being the deciding issue between the two evenly matched men (ala Fully Loaded 2000).

3) Have Triple H dominate the match, only to have Jericho go over when someone interferes on his behalf (ala Badd Blood)

4) Have Triple H dominate the match and win it in squash fashion.

If you picked 4, the WWF is hiring. *rolleyes*

-- Undertaker wasn't drawing as a heel champion, and HHH was widely believed to be taking the title back at KOTR. Didn't happen. Says a lot about how the WWF viewed his babyface run.

-- Stephanie comes back as part of the GM angle, and as a babyface no less, thus rending the whole HHH/Stephanie feud at Wrestlemania completely pointless.

-- And finally, after months of tanking as a face, HHH turns heel on his best friend Shawn Michaels, thus rending his entire push to the top on the Steve Austin "heroic return from injury" card a meaningless exercise.

If this clear, untouched-by-backstage-politics evidence doesn't conclusively prove Jericho got totally shafted with regards to his feud with HHH, then call me Mud.

Being The Bookerman (No Way Out)
Grading The Bookerman (No Way Out)
Worship Your God And Mine

KANE: Triple H...tonight, I will burn the flesh from your body!
CRZ: Umm, I heard it the FIRST time!
-- WWF Smackdown, 9/9/99


Since: 1.7.02

Since last post: 5793 days
Last activity: 5792 days
#35 Posted on
About Jericho being too small for main event, why dont you look at Shawn Micheals in the pass? He was even smaller.

(edited by Skylaer on 8.8.02 1244)
Boudin rouge

Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 5442 days
Last activity: 5393 days
#36 Posted on
Jericho's funeral?



"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells

J. Kyle

Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 217 days
Last activity: 199 days
#37 Posted on says:

You know as someone who proudly wore the banner of Jerichoholic, I think I can safely say that at this point we have to accept that whether it's right or wrong Jericho is the Macho Man/Jerry Lynn in this feud. He's never gonna beat HHH, just accept it and move on.

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