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The W - Pro Wrestling - What's Worth More?
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Ubermonkeys
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

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#1 Posted on
This is one of those "Hindsight Is 20/20" things, but I was wondering today...

Which do you think would have had more impact- announcing the return of "the NWO", or the return of "Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, and Hulk Hogan?"

For the NWO fans, it tells them that the core group of guys is coming back, and then they might just tune in, thinking, "I wonder... are they going to reform the NWO?"

For the people who like these guys but might not have liked how the NWO ended up, (who was in the last incarnation- Bret, Jarrett and Steiner?) I think it gives them a "bright side", so to speak, about their returns.

I also think that if Vince is doing this in an attempt to spark ratings, which is the only reason I can think of, he'd draw a lot more casual fan interest by just putting out the name "Hulk Hogan" instead of "NWO". Some old fan from the 80s or early 90s knows who Hogan is, but if they hadn't been watching for the last 5 years, "NWO" might not mean anything to them. Eh.

(edited by Ubermonkeys on 7.2.02 1438)



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Since: 21.1.02
From: Lousyana

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#2 Posted on
Personally, I'd say the NWO, because they brought more viewers that wrestling ever had at that point.

It'd be kind of hard to announce Hall, Nash, and Hogan, and not have anyone believe that the NWO specifically was coming in. Hell, people were already doing that once they learned all three were likely to be signed, even before Vince announced em. They're not Jarrett, Hart, and Steiner. They're the original NWO.

And Vince again did the right thing by clarifying to the fans that it would indeed be Hall, Nash, and Hogan coming in, and not say Konan, Virgil, and Horace Hogan.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: CA

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#3 Posted on
I agree with your last point. I don't honestly know much about the nWo, and reading things on the Internet has probably trained newer fans to 'not like this idea.' Had they just been introduced individually, they might not be so biased. Of course, there's a lot of bashing of those individual wrestlers, as well.

Being a new viewer, it would have meant more to me had they just used the name Hulk Hogan, and then introduced the nWo through him. Like I said before, I don't know much about the nWo, but maybe that's a good thing. This way, I can't associate any of their pasts with them, and therefore I will be neutral to the nWo's appearance. I realize that the WWF was probably going for a heel heat reaction with them, and they probably hit right on with a lot of fans. I'll just have to watch, wait, and see.



BDC
Chourico








Since: 26.1.02
From: Falls Church, VA

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#4 Posted on
I don't think it would have mattered. Seems like a "six of one, half-a-dozen of the other" question.

The bigger question to ask is why aren't the WCW fans back? Before you ask "what fans?" remember that a group of wrestling fans existed that actually primarily watched WCW. These were the 3.0 ratings crowds that watched Nitro from the beginning to the bitter, pathetic end. I can understand them not watching during Invasion--WCW was set up to eventually lose from the beginning, and I think everyone with half a brain knew it. If I were a WCW fan, I wouldn't have wanted to see that.

I thought the WCW fans would start coming back with Ric Flair. Maybe the WWF did too. It hasn't really happened. The nWo hasn't done it either.

Maybe the "WCW fan" was a myth. Maybe it doesn't matter who the WWF brings in, WCW fans hate Vince McMahon so much that they refuse to put money in his pockets. I don't know.

BDC



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 11 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Maybe it doesn't matter who the WWF brings in, WCW fans hate Vince McMahon so much that they refuse to put money in his pockets.

I think you have a point there. There are a lot of WWF fans who hated WCW without even watching much WCW.
I'm sure there are a ton of WCW fans who feel the same way about the WWF.



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Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

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#6 Posted on
The NWO thing was obviously directed toward three groups: The people who watched both shows, the "smart" fans, and the few remaining WCW fans. On the surface, it might appear to be a bad idea, because Vince quite obviously never got that "core" WCW audience that keeps getting mentioned, so the NWO thing is only going to appeal to a certain audience.

But here's the thing...

Even when WCW was really, really horrible, I watched both shows. I couldn't really give you a good reason why, I just did, 'cause I liked watching wrestling. Hell, I watched WOW and ECW, too, and most of the wrestline fans I know did the same.

My point? I think this "core audience" that ONLY watches one or the other is a myth. I think the people who only watched one or the other were the casual fans... and once the object of their derision went away? They didn't have much reason to watch. It's no fun to watch the WWF kick WCW's ass when there IS no WCW.

The "core" audience is what's left NOW, and they watched both. The "core" audience is pretty much all that's left, and they're going to remember the NWO (not that that's necessarily a good thing, but that's a smarky little subject that I'm not going to get into).



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Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2999 days
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#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by BDC
    The bigger question to ask is why aren't the WCW fans back? Before you ask "what fans?" remember that a group of wrestling fans existed that actually primarily watched WCW. These were the 3.0 ratings crowds that watched Nitro from the beginning to the bitter, pathetic end. I can understand them not watching during Invasion--WCW was set up to eventually lose from the beginning, and I think everyone with half a brain knew it. If I were a WCW fan, I wouldn't have wanted to see that.


If I was a WCW fan, and preferred WCW's wrestlers to the WWF's wrestlers, who would I now tune into the WWF to watch?

Booker T: Jobber to the Stars, for the most part
Stacy: Making Lawler's voice leap octaves in her Dudley suit
Shane Helms: Whassupwitdat? Adrift in gimmickland
Chuck Palumbo: Simply FABULOUS in a red headband, also adrift in gimmickland
DDP: Let us not speak of the Stalker angle. Only now is he actually wrestling, months later.
Dustin Rhodes: back in the Goldddddddusssssst suit
Lance Storm: Comic relief and run-ins for Jericho, mostly
Ric Flair: the most over of the bunch, but (his PPV match notwithstanding) not a wrestler any more

Scott Steiner, Rick Steiner, Sid, Goldberg, Sting, Savage, Elizabeth, Jeff Jarrett, 95% of the cruiserweights, Luger, Bigelow, Shane Douglas, Ernest Miller, Konnan, Buff Bagwell, the Mamalukes, Bigelow, La Parka, Kronik, Crowbar, Daffney, Mike Sanders, Jindrak, Dusty Rhodes, Road Warrior Animal, Tank Abbott, Juventud, Rey Mysterio Jr. and others: won't be on YOUR TV on a WWF program any time soon, and I can't say that I miss most (except Parka and most of the cruisers, and they may finally get off their butts and sign Rey)

Kanyon, Mike Awesome, Hugh Morrus, Chavo Guerrero Jr., Billy Kidman, Sean O'Haire, Shawn Stasiak: they came - they saw - they, er, left or went MIA or got injured

Hogan, Nash, Hall: haven't physically been seen on TV in a year or more, apart from the recent nWold promos

I'm not saying that all (or even most) of the above are people who should be in the mix for WWF TV time. I'm saying that those who watched WCW in preference to the WWF certainly have little reason to watch the WWF now, unless they want to watch Booker get his ass kicked weekly.




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dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 4 days
#8 Posted on
Ok..this post is really stereotypical and refers to 'the wcw fan' while it probably isnt THAT black and white..but for arguments sake..

Why hasn't the wcw fan started watching wwf now that they brought back some big wcw names?

For the real WCW fan that would refuse to watch WWF, many of the names that VSP lists have no value . They probably just watched wcw cause they wanted to, not because the wrestlers. Guys like The mamalukes, the whole NBT were never that over as any guy in the good old WCW days.
NO, they stayed for Flair, Sting and maybe for the old old school cruiserweights.
Silver King & Super Calo vs El Dandy & Hector Garrrrrza! WOOhooo!!!

The WCW fan that refused to watch WWF then, won't watch now because they don't like the product. No matter how you sell it to them, I figure they would not like the way WWF does the sports entertainment thing.
I think t is less based on names than on attitude towards the feds and the shows.

The old school WCW probably hated the nWo angle too and don't care if they return..
Nothing could make them watch WWF..they probably returned to checking out little indy wrestling leagues where the stuff is 'pure'



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Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 270 days
Last activity: 11 days
#9 Posted on
Ubermonkeys, you're forgetting something very, very important: There aren't any nWo fans.

Nah, there probably *are* some, but the fact that the nWo's core group has languished in obscurity and whatnot for the better part of two years really kills any buzz this could've had.

Most wrestling fans left are either:
a) Bitching about the monopoly.
b) Bitching about (insert wrestler)'s workrate.
c) Bitching about RAW.
d) Bitching about (insert wrestler) being buried.
e) Napping.
And the WCW fans probably got frustrated and went to take a nap, falling into category "e".



Benoitaholic #258
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 13 hours
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#10 Posted on
Don't forget...
f) Bitching about people who are bitching about the monopoly, (insert wrestler)'s workrate, RAW, and (insert wrestler) being buried.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 15 hours
Last activity: 15 hours
#11 Posted on
I honestly believe that La Parka would be over huge if he came back.



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Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2999 days
Last activity: 213 days
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by dMp
    For the real WCW fan that would refuse to watch WWF, many of the names that VSP lists have no value . They probably just watched wcw cause they wanted to, not because the wrestlers. Guys like The mamalukes, the whole NBT were never that over as any guy in the good old WCW days.
    NO, they stayed for Flair, Sting and maybe for the old old school cruiserweights.
    Silver King & Super Calo vs El Dandy & Hector Garrrrrza! WOOhooo!!!

    The WCW fan that refused to watch WWF then, won't watch now because they don't like the product. No matter how you sell it to them, I figure they would not like the way WWF does the sports entertainment thing.
    I think it is less based on names than on attitude towards the feds and the shows.

    The old school WCW probably hated the nWo angle too and don't care if they return..
    Nothing could make them watch WWF..they probably returned to checking out little indy wrestling leagues where the stuff is 'pure'



Well, either way WCW gets it in the neck.

The old-school WRESTLING fans are unamused by the "sports entertainment" style in general, and 2001 WCW was just as bad as 2001 WWF in that respect. They are indeed buying a lot of indy and Japanese tapes these days.

The people who liked 2001 WCW and the wrestlers who performed there aren't seeing anyone they want to see, either. Apart from Booker T, (the non-wrestling) Flair and the incoming nWold, no one from WCW is even showing up anywhere NEAR the uppercard.

And if you're a cruiserweight fan, you're definitely buying tapes, 'cause they certainly won't be turning up in the WWF no matter how many times Ross bleats "We're getting serious about the LHW division! We mean it this time! Really! Honest! This time for real! Would I lie?"




HELLO KITTY gang terrorizes city, family STICKERED to death!
Saruman
Salami








Since: 25.1.02
From: Kirksville, MO

Since last post: 4421 days
Last activity: 4391 days
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#13 Posted on
The gent above made the point on the matter:
most people watched wCw because it usually contained actual wrestling, not an over-worked soap opera. Hence, most people stopped watching (in my experience, at least) wCw around late 1999 early 2k, when Russo came, and really never started up again. I personally watched again when they dumped vinny roo and started Steiner on his mad path of destruction (which was a good, wrestling based angle, by god). Plus, they had those damn fun cruiserweights. Anyway, wCw fans may come back when there are more matches and less talky talky in wwF shows. Or they just hate anyone named Vince.
And Yes, even the NwO angle featured a goodly amount of wrestling.



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Sure, but Rocky will be there, so no one will miss Austin not being there. And I still say we're getting a Bischoff Special IE: Goldberg, pretty soon, it's in my gut, I just feel it... like Al Isaacs and Yokozuna; I KNOW it's ganna happen folks, I know.....
- Cerebus, Blowing Their Chance? (2003)
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