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The W - Pro Wrestling - What Should Cena Do?
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 27 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.45
I'm moving this here from the WrestleMania predictions thread so it doesn't highjack it.

    Originally posted by CruelAngel777
      Originally posted by Wpob



      Cena: "I just don’t see me getting there in order to please a very small group of 30-year-olds. To be very honest with you, every single week I meet kids with life-threatening illnesses and they’ll tell me how much I mean to them, and their parents will tell me how inspirational I’ve been to their kids. All of this stuff I would have to stop if I was a “bad guy.” To be a bad guy, you actually have to be a bad guy. I just don’t have it in me, personally. So although you might get a great story out of it for nine months, doing it would just take away so much, and I don’t have that club in the bag. "




    What a crock of shit. He doesn't have it in him to be a "bad guy"? What business does he think he is in? He's talking like some nine year old. "To be a bad guy you actually have to be a bad guy". Yeah it's called acting John. He doesn't want to do it to appease a "small group of 30 year olds". Last time I checked the small group of 30 year olds seem to be pretty loud and in several cities WWE visits, and have been growing since One Night Stand 2006.

    If he doesn't feel like changing his character because he'll disappoint sick kids then just retire. Do like the Rock or Taker and work part-time, only returning when the kids stop giving a shit about him after he starts to lose relevance to Daniel Bryan or someone who isn't so concerned with his public image to keep WWE product interesting.

    Cena in being giving and a philanthropist, is being selfish in his position in the company. Vince is always gonna keep Cena at the top, hence him closing all Raws and PPVs for the majority of last year. He's protected while other current superstars are beating down his door for the top spot. They are willing to do what is necessary to make the WWE product interesting and look fresh to the audience. If Cena isn't maybe he needs a new line of work. Go be a US Ambassador for all I care.


It seemed Cena steadfastly refusing the idea of being a heel set this off. I'm trying to figure out what you actually want from John Cena from this impassioned response. Do you just want him to turn heel? Do you want him to go part time? Do you want him to just go away?

What is it you actually want from the guy?

Me, I don't care. I genuinely don't. It'd be fun to see him as a heel, sure, but he can stay where he is until he retires and I'm pretty much resigned to it, personally.

But what about you? I presume you're in the age demographic Cena speaks of, which is not the demo he's concerned with.

What do you want from John Cena?

And as a follow up question, why do you think whatever you want from John Cena is better for him and/or WWE than what he's doing now, which is actually pretty damn successful.

(edited by John Orquiola on 6.4.13 1915)


"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
I want some fucking character development. This character should look nothing like the guy who started out in 2012. He lost to Rock in the match he had to win, he got his ass beat by Brock and lucked out and he has not been champ for last a year and half. Yet, it feels like he is saying the exact same character when he started in 2005. He has been face for eight years and yes, he has had moments where he seems to evolve and then backs to square one.

Now, if this means he goes heel, so be it. If it doesn't then at least do something with him. Again, I have seen Hulk Hogan in full NWO gear go to children's hospital with smiling kids. Also, there are other people I am sure that kids would like to see if the WWE decided to finally push that person to the moon like they did with Cena. If we know anything about the WWE is anyone not named McMahon or in the family is replaceable. Eventually, Super Cena is going to hit a kryptonite wall head first. And now amount of "drug therapy" is going to fix it. CM Punk could have been that guy, but he went down the heel route, because he saw the writing on the wall.

At this point, if this is how John feels about it, no one online or in the stands is going to change his mind. It is admirable that he loves giving joy to kids. Not many people do after this amount of time. He should be respected and applauded for it. The only person who is going to change this is Vince and he seems in no hurry to change it.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Tenken347
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.61
Protip: Whenever John Cena mentions 30-year-old men or the internet, he is trolling you. And he's really good at it. He's not good at being a bad guy? BULLSHIT. He is a phenomenal heel. He peppers it into his stuff occasionally when the mood suits him, and it is always fantastic. He did it last week on RAW, he did it last year for WrestleMania, and he did it in the original Summer of Punk match. Hell, years ago, the night after he started one of his title runs, he came out and the arena was booing the ever-loving shit out of him. He just walked out, smiled, and said "The champ is here." It set the crowd off like you wouldn't believe. He had them in the palm of his hand. And that's why I want Cena to turn. Not because I think he's stale, not because I don't like him as a face. Because he's an amazing heel, and I want more of it.
dwaters
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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25
I'm not buying the "doesn't have it in him" part either. Remember way back those graveyard vignettes of him taunting The Undertaker, pissing on graves?

I don't even think people want him to be bad, just different. Tag with a young guy, grow a beard, wear a mask and pretend you're Juan Cena, do an amnesia angle where you forget who you are, feud with an evil brother...
Do SOMETHING we haven't seen you do a million times already.
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.45
I'm late to this thread and probably repeating what other folks have already kinda said, but specifically to CruelAngel777, why didn't you consider even the remote possibility that Cena could be working you? I mean, I don't think he's turning any time soon either, but your response is the kind of "hook, line, sinker" treatment the talent DREAMS of eliciting from the marks.



Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.45
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I want some fucking character development. This character should look nothing like the guy who started out in 2012. He lost to Rock in the match he had to win, he got his ass beat by Brock and lucked out and he has not been champ for last a year and half. Yet, it feels like he is saying the exact same character when he started in 2005. He has been face for eight years and yes, he has had moments where he seems to evolve and then backs to square one.


This. The most frustrating part of the SuperCena era is that he's actually been part of some genuinely interesting angles that put a new light on his 'superface' status yet the stories just fizzle out since WWE can't write or book worth a damn.

* The Nexus invasion. Cena was actually getting big pops across the board during this angle as the WWE's lead defender since (surprise!) he actually showed some worry that Nexus would overtake the company and he wouldn't be able to stop eight guys. Had WWE actually gone all the way with it and done more with the 'Cena is forced to be Nexus' underling' idea, he would've gotten even more sympathy.

* The Summer of Punk. We only scratched the surface of exploring the Superman/Batman dynamic between Cena and Punk. Instead we got sidetracked with Cena feuding with Del Rio and then getting involved against Awesome Truth.

* Kane tries to get Cena to 'embrace the hate.' This actually could've been a really interesting tease of a heel turn except nope, we had to bog this whole story down with Eve and the burial of Zack Ryder's career.

* The Lesnar match. It's easy to say that Cena should've just done the job but I can understand WWE's logic in not immediately putting a notorious flake like Brock over their top guy. That said, if Cena is more shaken by the result afterwards and maybe isn't sure of himself, you can create some long-lasting impact.

As stale as Cena's character allegedly is, there are still a ton of avenues that have yet to be explored. It's like when comic book fans complain that Superman is "boring" because he's too much of a goody-two shoes --- on the contrary, the key to Supes' popularity is that he DOES always stick to his moral code but that doesn't mean it can't be tested. It also helps that if Superman has an epic battle with Doomsday, he doesn't start the next issue by making a bunch of wisecracking references to 80's sitcoms and pretends the Doomsday fight never happened.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
GodEatGod
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Since: 28.2.02

Since last post: 1 day
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
One thing I've wondered: If Cena were to turn heel, wouldn't they still have the same problem with the crowd split that they do now? As Tenken347 mentioned, Cena could be a very good heel...which would probably get him cheers and chants from the same people who are now booing him. The people who chant for C.M. Punk even as he's pouring ashes over Undertaker's prone body will cheer like nuts for Cena trashing his family friendly, goody two shoes persona.

It isn't a problem with any one wrestler, but with the audience itself. They have two audiences that show up to every show and they seem to like fundamentally different things at times (but everyone agrees that Jack Swagger's boring). Cena's just the focal point that brought it to the surface. Will the snarkier crowd grow stronger as those kids get older? Or will the kids and families grow more dominant as the cynical fans turn away from the PG product? I'm honestly not sure of the answer.

So far, the kids are winning, because they're the more in need of pleasing. Smart fans and heel-cheering crowds will bitch and moan but, generally, wrestling's one of our major hobbies and we'll tend to follow it, even if we bitch about it. But if they turn Cena heel, some kids will probably stop watching entirely, while others will have their parents turn it off because who's the good role model for their kids now (I understand the argument that Cena's actually a terrible, bullying example of a role model, but that's the impression, regardless).

Do I want him to turn heel? Yes. Do I think he ever will? Probably someday, but not anytime soon, and only if those kids actually do grow up into bloodthirsty types. But, in truth, if they do? They'll probably just start watching MMA instead.



"Never piss off a hawk with a blowgun" - Conan O'Brien
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 4 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
I made my thoughts on this subject known in the Raw thread, so I'll just keep it short. The whole idea of Cena needing to stay face for the Make-A-Wish, Tribute to the Troops gigs are an indictment on the company's inability to create any new stars or put anyone else on Cena's level. This isn't the early 00's when Steve Austin left for his injury and Rock was seamlessly able to step in. If Cena ever vacates the #1 babyface spot, there IS nobody else! That's the company's fault!

So that brings me to this. The company should NOT turn John Cena. If Cena insists on remaining the company's top face, then the alternative is to create a monster heel that FORCES people to cheer for Cena. They had that dynamic down PERFECT with Brock last year. And frankly, they can STILL do that with Brock! In fact, I'd argue that turning Cena would do a lot of harm to Brock's role in the company, since Cena's fresh heel turn would steal a lot of the thunder he's built up. I say keep Cena face and continue to build Brock as a destroyer of men. A lot of this "Cena should turn" talk will go away as long as there's someone for the crowd to hate. And I mean REALLY hate. Brock can still be that guy, because God knows there isn't any other heel in this company that can step into that role now that Punk's act is starting to lose its edge.

Think of it this way. People are not booing John Cena, because they necessarily hate John Cena. People are booing because there is no feasible THREAT to John Cena. The company has done such a piss poor job of building up anyone's credibility (Hi, Dolph!) that every John Cena main event is a foregone conclusion. And if it goes the other way, it ends up not mattering in a few weeks anyway and we go right back to the status quo. (Hi again, Dolph!) The boos aren't for a guy as much as they're for a feeling of stagnation.

Have I mentioned lately that #WWEIsBoring?

(edited by It's False on 7.4.13 0120)

lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 4 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
    Originally posted by It's False
    I made my thoughts on this subject known in the Raw thread, so I'll just keep it short. The whole idea of Cena needing to stay face for the Make-A-Wish, Tribute to the Troops gigs are an indictment on the company's inability to create any new stars or put anyone else on Cena's level. This isn't the early 00's when Steve Austin left for his injury and Rock was seamlessly able to step in. If Cena ever vacates the #1 babyface spot, there IS nobody else! That's the company's fault!

    So that brings me to this. The company should NOT turn John Cena. If Cena insists on remaining the company's top face, then the alternative is to create a monster heel that FORCES people to cheer for Cena. They had that dynamic down PERFECT with Brock last year. And frankly, they can STILL do that with Brock! In fact, I'd argue that turning Cena would do a lot of harm to Brock's role in the company, since Cena's fresh heel turn would steal a lot of the thunder he's built up. I say keep Cena face and continue to build Brock as a destroyer of men. A lot of this "Cena should turn" talk will go away as long as there's someone for the crowd to hate. And I mean REALLY hate. Brock can still be that guy, because God knows there isn't any other heel in this company that can step into that role now that Punk's act is starting to lose its edge.

    Think of it this way. People are not booing John Cena, because they necessarily hate John Cena. People are booing because there is no feasible THREAT to John Cena. The company has done such a piss poor job of building up anyone's credibility (Hi, Dolph!) that every John Cena main event is a foregone conclusion. And if it goes the other way, it ends up not mattering in a few weeks anyway and we go right back to the status quo. (Hi again, Dolph!) The boos aren't for a guy as much as they're for a feeling of stagnation.

    Have I mentioned lately that #WWEIsBoring?

    The problem with Brock is his schedule. He can't be the number one monster heel when he is working less dates than Rock, but surprisingly more than Taker. You can't build a company around that guy. And yes, you are going to have to build your company around that heel if you want him to be taken seriously. The WWE is not just going to do that with all the reasons that Cena won't turn heel.

    The other problem is Cena has beaten everyone sans Punk. While Punk has been great, he for some reason can't get the job done. He is almost too charismatic to be a heel sorta like Flair. The crowd is always going to be split on him. They almost need to build a new character to face Cena, but there is a problem with that as well. The fans could not think he is ready and give him X-Poc heat. To be fair there also doesn't seem to be anyone in development that can be that guy.

    So, we keep playing game of Super Cena triumphs over the odds even when the storylines have nothing to do with him and tailored made to make someone else a star or beat guys who can could be as big as him or close to it. Even when the company's ratings and buyrates are down. To Vince, there is no other option than this for now. Now, if he would turn Cena, I do believe, he could make half the roster into instant stars, but its a chance he won't take due to the unknown quantity it represents.

    (edited by It's False on 7.4.13 0120)




The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Kevintripod
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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
Doesn't Vince McMahon say something similar to this:

"You don't do what's good for you. You do what's good for the company."





"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
CruelAngel777
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Since: 7.4.02

Since last post: 1 day
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.02

I had a multiple paragraph theory about all the points explaining my outburst in the WM prediction thread that John quoted. It had pictures and video and a pie chart and everything! Then I looked at how long it had gotten so I got bored and cut it to this.

If Cena turned heel after WM it would only take a matter of time before his biggest critics became his fans again. It's False is right in saying that without building more credible main eventers up in this company, a heel turn would be wasted. He turns at Mania, destroys Rock. Then What? The companies most over heels are Punk and Lesnar. Dolph is a heel too. Orton is one violation or major injury away from being fired, Kofi, my boy D-Bry and Miz are in midcard hell. That only leaves The Ryback and Del Rio as credible challenges to a heel Cena reign. A heel turn would probably backfire at this point.

A cool face Cena could do wonders with a new title reign however. Like the Cena we saw after he exposed The Rock had written cues on his wrist/2003 - 2006 Dr. Thuganomics would be a relief right now. Maybe he's been trying to be the wiseass Cena again, but more often than not he is portrayed as the company golden boy and a highly successful loser. He's been playing the morally spotless boyscout in this company for so long that I just change the channel when he is talking.

Cena simply needs solid growth from the clean as a sheet ultimate babyface character he's been playing straight for the past 7+ years. This is more creative's fault than Cena's, but I feel that Cena's character has become incredibly stale and there is potential to make him so much more than the WWE's White Knight. A heel turn would be a strong way to reinvent the character of John Cena.



I believe in The Shield....
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 1 day
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73

The weird thing about Cena is he got over doing those decidedly non-PG raps, and once they decided they were going to go with him they made him stop doing them. It would be like telling Austin to stop cursing and flipping the bird. It was so irrational. Another element is Vince McMahon still believes people want a milk-drinking All-American good guy. People don't want that. The anti-hero phenomenon we experienced during the attitude era wasn't some phase. People want James Bond, not Mr. Rogers.

As for no one being there to replace him, who says you need a Rock to his Austin? When Hogan turned in WCW they positioned Sting as his adversary. Sting had been on top for WCW during some of its worst years. When you compare him to many other people in the top spot during the Crockett years, he's not a good draw historically. But when Hogan turned, it gave Sting new life. Maybe that could happen here.





Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.79
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Even when the company's ratings and buyrates are down.


The company's buyrates are up.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.80
Cena can be as prominent a figure while staying away from the belt. If he's so popular, he can play any role onscreen and be a draw. He doesn't need the belt. He doesn't elevate it, and it can't elevate him any further. Let's say Cena wins tonight, who is his next opponent? Who moves up with a fresh angle against him? Orton? A guy who doesn't talk? That means Cena has to talk more to carry the angle, and his time-killing banters is the third-grade humor that gets old quick.

Gripe gripe gripe. I just want somone else to work the main event as a face.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.38
I definitely disagree that Cena needs to turn. I think Cena going apeshit on Rock post-match or WM17 style cheating to win has been set up pretty well if they want to go in that direction, but they're teasing it so heavily, that I think they're just throwing the possibility out there to make the match more intriguing.

Now the question isn't just "Is Cena going to win?" it's "Is Cena going to turn heel to win?", "Is Rock going to actually win two in a row?", it's "Is Cena going to lose, then turn heel post-match?"

That's what WWE is doing. Probably because Cena winning to even the score seems too obvious.


One person pointed this out, even if he does get a LOT of boos, the reaction is genuine to John Cena. WWE makes money off of BOTH pro-Cena and anti-Cena shirts. Why change that dynamic and go one way instead of the other? And Jim Ross recently had an interesting point that the people who want Cena to turn heel, the ones booing him now, are going to start cheering him then, and that's confusing.

WWE and Vince, traditionally, doesn't change anything until he's absolutely forced to. Until he loses the Hulk Hogan cash cow, until WCW no longer exists, until Steve Austin and The Rock are gone, until 1996 WWF loses $6.5 million.

Until Cena, as-is, starts being buyrate/ratings/attendance repellant, there's no reason to change. I don't see any problem with that, because right now Cena is The Man. WWE needs someone to be The Man until someone else is ready to be The Man. Punk's on his way to solidifying himself (and he's already a "name"), who knows who's next? Either way, no one is ready right now. I blame this mostly on part-timers than Cena himself, who's a reliable person on top.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 7.4.13 1244)
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 4 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by lotjx
      Even when the company's ratings and buyrates are down.


    The company's buyrates are up.


You mean the PPVs, Rock has been on?



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 42 min.
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
    Originally posted by lotjx
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
        Originally posted by lotjx
        Even when the company's ratings and buyrates are down.


      The company's buyrates are up.


    You mean the PPVs, Rock has been on?
No, he means basically all PPVs have been up, including ones main evented by Big Show, Ryback, and John Laurinaitis.



12W12D11W11D10W10D
Rumble483299476281465259
Chamber194138212145287160
Mania12197151124679885495
Backlash/Ex Rules271159216108201112
Judg Day/Over Lmt17212414572218121
Ex/Rules/Cap Pun/NWO2001101768515888
MITB20611420514616498
Sslam392296311180349209
NOC20711216910916599
No Mercy/Hell Cell20015218298210109
Vengeance--------1216513771
Survivor209121312179244127
Armageddon/TLC1757317998195101
TOTALS392824133828224536782049

Every PPV improved from 2011 to 2012 except for Survivor Series (where Rock was there in 2011 not 2012) and TLC (which had main events shuffled at the last minute because of Punk).

(edited by CRZ on 7.4.13 1620)


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