i talking about workrate, spots, psychology, croud heat, great twists.. all of those elements. i have read before that it was hbk v. mandkind at mindgames 1996, so i bought an HBK tape (from corey's wrestling archives, the BEST place for old and new wrestling tapes)- it was a pretty good match, but i dont think its the best i have ever seen. I remember a match between sabu and rvd in which the ring ropes broke which was incredible, and of course mankind v. hhh street fight was great. but i cant seem to decide which is the best match ever- do you guys have any thoughts?
Shawn Michaels/Mankind wasn't the best match ever. It was Mick Foley's best, and maybe even Shawn's best, but not the absolute best. I was never into the RVD/Sabu matches, as they were pretty much spot/rest/spot/rest. They're fun to watch on a highlight reel, but as a match alone, they don't really stand out.
I always thought Flair/Steamboat (the one on the Triple H DVD) was about as perfect as you can get, but it's pretty old-school, so some newer fans might think differently. Of course, "best match ever" is all about opinion. As much as I enjoy watching RVD v. Jerry Lynn from Living Dangerously '99, someone else may enjoy watching Christopher Nowinski & Jackie Gayda v. Trish Stratus & Bradshaw from RAW. Whatever floats your boat.
Originally posted by fuelinjectedFlair/Steamboat 2/3 Falls at Clash VI
If your talking North American Wrestling, the Clash match and the subsequent PPV where Flair regained the belt, followed by the Terry Funk beatdown, are the gold standard. Of course, after a year of such wrestling goodness, the geniuses who ran WCW replaced Flair as top booker with Ole 'I kill wrestling promotions' Anderson, and the company hit the shitter. Gee, the good question should not be Why did WCW go out of business, but How Did it Not Go Out of Business for over a decade.
I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Even when it was poorly managed in the mid-90's they still kept a fairly tight budget. It wasn't until late Bischoff and Russo where they started trying to compete production-wise with WWF without setting up all the revenue streams that WWF had. I still wonder how the suits at Time Warner, allowed them to rack up $60+ million in debt. You'd think there would've been a point around $10-20 million where they would've tried to stop the bleeding and make cutbacks.
Well, I'd have to go with Bret/Austin from Wrestlemania XIII. The double turn was executed perfectly, Austin bled like a stuck pig, the psychology was fantastic, and the workrate was nothing to scoff at either - even guest ref Ken Shamrock didn't screw things up (and I'm sure there's a backstory for him being there which I can't recall right now). I don't recall the crowd heat during the match (I think it was pretty good), but they were booing the hell out of Bret after he Sharpshootered Austin into unconsciousness.
I have to agree with HBK/Mankind not begin nearly as good as advertised by some. I kept hearing how great it was and was kind of disappointed when i finally saw it a few months ago, it definitely isn't the greatest match in my opinion and I wouldn't even say Mankind or HBK's best match either.
It's hard to pick just one after all the matches you see but i'm a big fan of Hennig vs. Hart from Summerslam and Owen vs Bulldog in the European Title Finals.
As for the Ken Shamrock thing, i don't think he had any connection to Bret or Austin storyline wise, I think he was just a guest to the WWF and just decided to let him referee that match. Don't think there was any reason for that particular match.
Originally posted by QuezzyAs for the Ken Shamrock thing, i don't think he had any connection to Bret or Austin storyline wise, I think he was just a guest to the WWF and just decided to let him referee that match. Don't think there was any reason for that particular match.
If I remember correctly, the Austin-Bret Hart match at WrestleMania was a submission match that could only be won by making your opponent tap out (of course, Austin never tapped out, he passed out instead of tapping out). Shamrock, being a star in UFC, was connected to that match because it was the UFC that introduced the "tap out" to the pro wrestling (Sports Entertainment for any McMahon out there) world. Plus, it may have been a way to get Shamrock's foot in the door for his eventual WWF career.
As for the best match, as someone else mentioned, it's purely opinion for each particular person. While not much as for as workrate, my 2 favorite matches had plenty of primo psychology with great buildup, which led to intense crowd heat.
One of my favorites was the first WarGames match, Four Horsemen and JJ Dillon vs. Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, the Road Warriors, and Paul Ellering in the Omni in Atlanta. I was actually in the Omni that night and I can guarantee you that the crowd was super hot for the WarGames. Each period, from the first 5 minute period (Arn Anderson vs. Dusty Rhodes) to each 2 minute period after that, had it's own memorable moments and built the match up to the crescendo when the Road Warriors isolated JJ Dillon in one ring and forced him to submit.
As much as I enjoyed WarGames, my all time favorite match is from StarrCade '85 and it's the "I Quit" cage match for the US Title with Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard. This match had great psychology and a perfect buildup, which combined with the huge popularity of Magnum TA and the crowd's intense hatred for Tully Blanchard, led to a hot crowd anxiously hoping Magnum could win the US Title from Tully. If you're a workrate freak, this match probably isn't going to be your favorite but, this match had incredible intensity and a brutality that was ahead of its time. From the staredown at the beginning, through the many times that each guy bashed the other's face with the microphone after screaming "SAY IT!!" into the microphone, and to the finish when Tully gave up while Magnum jammed the sharp piece from a shattered wood chair into a cut in Tully's head, this match was amazing, IMHO!
Originally posted by redsoxnation If your talking North American Wrestling, the Clash match and the subsequent PPV where Flair regained the belt, followed by the Terry Funk beatdown, are the gold standard.
Terry Funk in the tuxedo piledriving Flair onto that table that refused to break is one of my favorite all-time moments.
He was wearing a TUX and COWBOY BOOTS!
"Well, you can't involve friendship with business. It has to be one or the other. It's either business or friendship, or hit the bricks!" --Life Lessons from "The Tao of Bobby the Brain Heenan" Uncensored 2000 preview
Steamboat and Savage from 'Mania III will always get my nod, if for no other reason than it was the first match I ever saw (I was just a wee lad at the time) that made me take notice of workrate, psychology, etc. Before that, it was all "Go Hulkster, go!!"
I watched - you pretty much hit it on the head. Angle vs. Hardy was just simply amazing - lots of emotion in it and the crowd was solidly into it. It was just stupidly overbooked and should have been the main event.