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31.10.14 1517
The W - Pro Wrestling - What If Jesus Knew Kung Fu?
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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I only caught the last 20 so minutes of ECW last night, but it was quite the worthwhile train wreck of commentary.

If you didn't see it, Jamie Noble got another match with CM Punk (non-title, I thought). Miz has already joined Tazz and Styles before the introductions for the match, but John Morrison showed up just as the match started and helped himself to a microphone. It's triangle match for the ECW Title at Survivor Series, you see.

The commentary for the match can be divided like so:
80% Miz and Morrison bickering back and forth about who was going to beat Punk, if Morrison did indeed lose to a hat the previous week, and catch phrases. (This is where we found out that Jesus + Kung Fu = John Morrison. EPIC.)
15% Tazz trying to get them to talk about the match
5% Styles trying to call the match, then mostly bailing so three people fighting to get in a line is marginally better than four people

This might have even worked if this it was a four minute match, but it seemed like eight minutes+ (and probably good, if you could separate it from the commentary) and so Miz and Morrison came across like the worst kind of indy geeks possible by the end of it. Or am I alone in thinking that?



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Since: 9.12.01
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
By the end of it, I did find myself logging on to ecw.com to find the Superstars page for Miz' Hat. Unfortunately, all I found was this (wwe.com), which made me sad.



Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
How prominent has Noble been on SmackDown since Hornswoggle moved to RAW? He seemed to do fine against Punk in working over the arm -- that reversal into the armbar when Punk tried the springboard clothesline was nice -- but is this lowering Punk by having this much trouble against Noble?

I'm not complaining about Punk/Noble getting a healthy chunk of TV time. But why follow the Cena model of title defense when the opponent is a seemingly lower rung SD talent? And shame on Styles/Tazz for ignoring that Noble was using Punk's old strategy to set up the Anaconda.

Miz, Punk, and Morrison are almost too good to be used in one angle. I wouldn't mind either holding the title.

The Jeff Hardy ring-apron spot seemed wrong and painful, and the ending was quirky. Hope he's OK.

I oh-so dig MVP's silver body suit.



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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.08
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    But why follow the Cena model of title defense when the opponent is a seemingly lower rung SD talent?


Because ECW is lower than lower rung Smackdown talent ... but like you, I'm not complaining about the two getting time to put on some decent matches.
Kane Is Ugly
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Since: 14.7.03
From: Uglyville

Since last post: 2432 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.07
Apparently, Miz and Morrison's commentary pissed off JBL a lot and he had a shoving match with Morrison. I guess telling JBL to "fuck off" is a bad idea.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.55
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    How prominent has Noble been on SmackDown since Hornswoggle moved to RAW?

It also nicely coincides with Noble getting an agent job.

    Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
    Apparently, Miz and Morrison's commentary pissed off JBL a lot and he had a shoving match with Morrison. I guess telling JBL to "fuck off" is a bad idea.

Here's the full version, from PWInsider:

After the TV tapings were over, JBL gathered John Morrison, the Miz, MVP, CM Punk, and Matt Hardy backstage. JBL went on to dress down and berate the Miz and Morrison for their color commentary on ECW. JBL felt that they ripped Punk apart in their commentary and made Punk look bad as opposed to them just being heels and saying bad things about him. He then yelled at them for their ring work during their match with MVP & Matt Hardy and told both Miz & Morrison to apologize to Punk, MVP & Hardy for making all 3 of them look bad. The Miz apologized to them, but Morrison told JBL screw you, it's none of your business, and he didn't say screw, he said another word and said that he would apologize to them, but it had nothing to do with JBL. They went back and forth arguing and at one point Morrison shoved JBL and the agents had to come and break the dispute up. No word on what the fallout from this situation will be.





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BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.34
What exactly made the commentary such a hot button issue?
Llakor
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec, CANADA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.46
They broke the cardinal rule of promos which is that you need to build up your opponent (before saying that you are good enough to beat him.)

JBL's point (as I understand it) is that instead of insulting Punk and boasting about how easily they could beat him, they should have been building him up as champion, but still insisting that they could beat him.





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Since: 25.7.02
From: Franklin, PA

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.32
Because Lord knows JBL always talked up his opponents during his 28-hour promos during his 48-year title reign.

Morrison should've kicked him in the balls.



I'm Charlie Owens, good night, and good luck.
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.09
Did JBL give this little talk to Triple H after all of his "I'm the Game, I've beaten everyone, you're nothing to me" promos from 2002 to 2005?
Alex
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Since: 24.2.02

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
Y'see John Cena, you're not a very good wrestler!
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.61
Lost in the commentary issue is the reason Matt and MVP were included in the party. From the looks of how things went at the tapings, Matt hurt himself legit during his tag match with Miz and Morrison. If Matt's out for an extended period of time and it's because Miz and Morrison wound up injuring him, then they effectively cut short the best storyline the company had going for it. Assuming this is the case, JBL reamed them accordingly.




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sentonBOMB
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Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.51
    Originally posted by Llakor
    They broke the cardinal rule of promos which is that you need to build up your opponent (before saying that you are good enough to beat him.)

    JBL's point (as I understand it) is that instead of insulting Punk and boasting about how easily they could beat him, they should have been building him up as champion, but still insisting that they could beat him.




Actually the promos against Punk didn't seem to be that bad to me last night. The general gist of them seemed to be, "I'm glad you (other heel guy sitting next to me) is in this match now because now I can definitely win because you're pushover unlike CM Punk."

What I had a problem with was how they bickered with each other instead of actually watching the match.
And speaking of the match, count me in as feeling like Jamie Noble had the upper hand too often. He's a cruiserweight who continually choked in trying to win the lowest-rung title from a leprechaun... he should not be the one almost winning against a "world champion."

(edited by sentonBOMB on 16.11.07 0839)
dMp
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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
    Originally posted by sentonBOMB
    And speaking of the match, count me in as feeling like Jamie Noble had the upper hand too often. He's a cruiserweight who continually choked in trying to win the lowest-rung title from a leprechaun... he should not be the one almost winning against a "world champion."

    (edited by sentonBOMB on 16.11.07 0839)


But we all agree that Jamie Noble is a great wrestler who should be able to beat most guys because he's so technically sound and such.
So him and Punk having a solid match isn't that weird.

I understand why you say what you say, and why people said a few months ago that Stevie got too much offense in against the champ (Punk as well) BUT doesn't it make it a bit more interesting when it isn't a squash?

Shouldn't we actually be happy when guys we like actually do not look like fools against the ones that get the WWE push?



*sigh* Why bother?
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 min.
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
    Originally posted by dMp
    I understand why you say what you say, and why people said a few months ago that Stevie got too much offense in against the champ (Punk as well) BUT doesn't it make it a bit more interesting when it isn't a squash?

    Shouldn't we actually be happy when guys we like actually do not look like fools against the ones that get the WWE push?


I say yes, and my hope would be that such a performance is then followed by a push to prove that they simply didn't get lucky in one match. I'd rather have all the roster names be a genuine threat to competently win any match.

Instead, we get the marketing of "anything can happen" to explain a one-time shock pin, usually via ringside shenanigans followed by a roll-up. Unfortunately, just to look at ECW, Stevie's sudden success in the ring a few months back has lead exactly nowhere. I fear the same for Noble.

I suppose the problem is as was suggested above: A Noble-level SmackDown guy equals a Punk-level ECW guy. I suspect this is because Punk is a small guy compared to Big Show and Lashley. And this makes Punk's reign similar to Rey's. Punk's momentum moves (the springboard clothesline, the turnbuckle knee and bulldog, etc.) aren't guaranteed to wear down his opponent enough to make the G2S academic. This means he's reliant on one move to win the match when he can manage to hit it (ironically the very angle used for SS by Shawn), and that makes Punk look lucky instead of good.





"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
sentonBOMB
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Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1982 days
Last activity: 683 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.51
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I say yes, and my hope would be that such a performance is then followed by a push to prove that they simply didn't get lucky in one match. I'd rather have all the roster names be a genuine threat to competently win any match.


I would say yes, that would indeed be the goal in a perfect world. Unfortunately, other WWE face champions are not really booked that way, and so having Noble look strong in this case just makes Punk (who I like) look like a weak champ. Just my opinion, of course.


    I suppose the problem is as was suggested above: A Noble-level SmackDown guy equals a Punk-level ECW guy. I suspect this is because Punk is a small guy compared to Big Show and Lashley. And this makes Punk's reign similar to Rey's.


I don't feel that they've been booking Punk's reign to be similar to Rey Mysterio's. Punk is generally shown to be on the same level as his challengers, who all tend to be smaller guys (Benoit, Miz, Morrison). The exception is Viscera but he is supposed to be a monster.
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I did that this week and was shocked at how little it changed my viewing of Smackdown. I thought it'd be much more entertaining not knowing what happens, etc. It's not. It's no different, at least for me.
- BobHollySTILLRules, spoiler etiquette (2002)
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