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23.11.14 2213
The W - Pro Wrestling - What about Raven
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samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 403 days
Last activity: 395 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.43

Raven has always been a guy who I think has an awesome look/persona and not a bad wrestler either. But I dont know much about him other than some of his WCW run and his short time in WWE (also Johnny Polo, but I'm not counting that awe-inspiring character!).
I know there are many people who have followed his career, but because I could never watch ECW, and now don't watch TNA, I can't say much about him myself. I'm hoping some fans of Raven here (or haters) could give a little insight on his biggest successes, biggest failures, and why they like/dislike him.



snoogans


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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by samoflange

    Raven has always been a guy who I think has an awesome look/persona and not a bad wrestler either. But I dont know much about him other than some of his WCW run and his short time in WWE (also Johnny Polo, but I'm not counting that awe-inspiring character!).
    I know there are many people who have followed his career, but because I could never watch ECW, and now don't watch TNA, I can't say much about him myself. I'm hoping some fans of Raven here (or haters) could give a little insight on his biggest successes, biggest failures, and why they like/dislike him.
But...we're talking about Brock Lesnar today. Or did you notice?



CRZ
XManiac24
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.3.04

Since last post: 3860 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I have always thought Raven is actually a pretty cool wrestler. He is very underrated. Very quickly:

The WCW character that you probably saw was not Raven at all. They made him sound more like a whiner and not the calculating guy he really is.

In ECW, where he first had his biggest following and success, he was a very calculating, manipulative, and capitalizing individual. When ECW invaded RAW in 1997, Paul E. Dangerously (at the time) called him "the David Koresh of professional wrestling." He had his group of "misfits" called The Nest, much like he had with the Flock. Stevie Richards was like his right-hand man and lackey who did all the stupid antics and dirty work but was blindly devoted to him.

He had solid feuds with Shane Douglas and The Sandman over the World Title, but his biggest and best feud was against Tommy Dreamer, the consumate good to Raven's seemingly evil.

Tommy Dreamer never was able to get the best of Raven and always lost to him, except when Raven left the company to go to WCW.

Raven always had the upper hand and was sort of like The Joker was to Batman. He wasn't really interested in beating him so much as he was in tormenting him. The Raven/Dreamer feud introduced Beulah to everybody and she was a focal point of their feuding for a while before finally siding with Dreamer, (and in real life they got married and I think had a child recently).

They had some solid battle style matches and it was cool. I remember watching ECW on TNN when Raven came back and saved Dreamer and the crowd went crazy because Raven was back and because he had come to the aid of his arch-rival.

There is a lot more, but that is Raven ECW in a nutshell. He and DDP had some training with Jake Roberts and like Jake, Raven learned to take ideas from literature and such and he is able to cut some really interesting promos.

Well, that is about as much as I can say. I don't see TNA very much, so if anyone wants to go into more detail or anything feel free, but there is my input.



If you disagree...you're wrong.
GRL
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Since: 13.7.02
From: Austin

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
Several years back, a friend and I were headed back from a WCW pay-per-view, and started discussing who we thought had REAL potential to be bigger stars someday, if only given a chance and a good push. He picked Norman Smiley, Billy Kidman, and Shane Douglas. I picked Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and Raven.

I'm still ticked I got one wrong...
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.94
    Originally posted by GRL
    Several years back, a friend and I were headed back from a WCW pay-per-view, and started discussing who we thought had REAL potential to be bigger stars someday, if only given a chance and a good push. He picked Norman Smiley, Billy Kidman, and Shane Douglas.


Boy your friend is dumb.



Scott Christ
All them women gonna make me teach 'em what they don't know how.

Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 22 days
Last activity: 3 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
It is important to remember why Raven and Dreamer were feuding. See, as kids, both of them were at the same summer camp. They both had eyes for Beulah, an attractive girl at said camp. In the end, it was Raven who got the girl, and he lorded it over Tommy. Tommy and Raven feuded until finally, the good guy (Tommy) got the girl and the respect of fans everywhere.

This is not exactly thrilling stuff I know. In fact, it is a testament to both Dreamer and Raven that they took a back story so silly, and through their performances turned it into the best single feud that ECW ever had. I remember being at the Arena for the final match where Tommy finally won, and it was as if (your favorite team) won the Super Bowl. Seriously, they made you care about the feud.

This feud is what made me dig Raven more than anyone else in ECW (that and the fact that I met him).



In 5 days, you will see the return of the Undertaker, the Dead Man that most of us have been clamoring for for years.

Also in 5 days, you will see most of us complain about the return of the Dead Man, the Dead Man that most of us have been clamoring for for years.

Damned (straight to Hell) if you do, damned (straight to Hell) if you don't.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.60
    Originally posted by ScottieKStones
      Originally posted by GRL
      Several years back, a friend and I were headed back from a WCW pay-per-view, and started discussing who we thought had REAL potential to be bigger stars someday, if only given a chance and a good push. He picked Norman Smiley, Billy Kidman, and Shane Douglas.


    Boy your friend is dumb.


Norman Smiley could actually wrestle. He could've been a perfectly serviceable midcard face (maybe like a Rikishi or a Bubba Dudley is today).



rockstar
Salami








Since: 2.1.02
From: East TN

Since last post: 3600 days
Last activity: 3478 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22

    Originally posted by Torchslasher
    It is important to remember why Raven and Dreamer were feuding. See, as kids, both of them were at the same summer camp. They both had eyes for Beulah, an attractive girl at said camp. In the end, it was Raven who got the girl, and he lorded it over Tommy. Tommy and Raven feuded until finally, the good guy (Tommy) got the girl and the respect of fans everywhere.

    This is not exactly thrilling stuff I know. In fact, it is a testament to both Dreamer and Raven that they took a back story so silly, and through their performances turned it into the best single feud that ECW ever had. I remember being at the Arena for the final match where Tommy finally won, and it was as if (your favorite team) won the Super Bowl. Seriously, they made you care about the feud.

    This feud is what made me dig Raven more than anyone else in ECW (that and the fact that I met him).


For some reason, I thought the story was that Beulah was unnattractive and Tommy treated her badly at the time or something to that effect. Memory hazy...

Anyhow, I recently realized that Raven's return to ECW during their TNN run to help Tommy win the tag straps (from the departing Dudleyz?) wasn't nearly as important simply because Beulah wasn't around anymore.



redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 511 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.60
    Originally posted by GRL
    Several years back, a friend and I were headed back from a WCW pay-per-view, and started discussing who we thought had REAL potential to be bigger stars someday, if only given a chance and a good push. He picked Norman Smiley, Billy Kidman, and Shane Douglas. I picked Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and Raven.

    I'm still ticked I got one wrong...







Have to give the devil his due on this one. Hogan was right about Kidman.
And, since we have to talk about Lesnar today; perhaps with the money they are saving from his contract they can finally afford to bring in Ralphus.



Latest news out of Hollywood is that Sid Eudy was offered the role of Jesus in The Passion. Unfortunately, that fell through due to Sid's continued insistence that he be crucified under the title: King of the Squirrels.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 1 day
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.97
I believe the story with Raven/dreamer/beullah was that she was a fat chick when they were all "at camp" together. When she was introduced, of course, she had lost all the wieght and was HOT!

Anyhow, Raven was great at just making people go insane. His promos were dark, and hard to follow at times, but in the end, you knew one thing, you wanted to KILL him.

Great wrestler, who never got his due, probably because he had some serious drug issues.





I was once WOTD, and nobody bothered to tell me?
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.79
In my opinion Raven is one of the smartest guys in the business. Inside the ring he always puts on a show, he always tells a story. He's not the a great technical wrestler or anything but for some reason whenever you watch one of his matches he rarely fails to entertain. Put still his best quality is probably his abilty to talk. I'd put his promos right up there behind Flair as my favorites of all time. Yes that's even ahead of The Rock or Stone Cold. And the guy can feud with ANYBODY and make it good. Raven and Dreamer was excellent. Raven and Benoit was great. Raven and DDP, Raven and James Mitchell, Raven and CM Punk. While WCW did make him sound whiny he atleast did some good stuff there working with the likes of Benoit, Saturn, Kanyon, etc. His time in the WWE was a complete waste though. I can't believe they couldn't find a good place for him.

Oh well, i'm fine watching him in TNA, give him the title already!



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1359 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.58
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Norman Smiley could actually wrestle. He could've been a perfectly serviceable midcard face (maybe like a Rikishi or a Bubba Dudley is today).


I know Norman Smiley could actually wrestle. But that doesn't necessarily mean someone is going to get anywhere, even though there was that point in WCW when he was one of the most over babyfaces in the company. I guess I just always saw him as a talented guy that wasn't going anywhere.

And I was more slightly bashing Kidman and Shane Douglas anyway.



Scott Christ
All them women gonna make me teach 'em what they don't know how.

JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

Since last post: 2324 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.54
    Originally posted by ScottieKStones
    And I was more slightly bashing Kidman and Shane Douglas anyway.


You still are :P



Goddamn this is one wacky game show!
reddragon
Polska kielbasa








Since: 23.8.03
From: Scotland

Since last post: 3812 days
Last activity: 3726 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.03
Check out his website on www.raveneffect.com he seems pretty busy at the moment.
In my opinion he is a fantastic worker who is usually overlooked because of his ablity to brawl with his wrestling style



Sad news i'm afraid i now have a full time job so i won't be spending my free time on the Weinerboard

Now how in the F**K do these URL's work again
Does anyone have a picure of The White Stripes where Meg is getting knives thrown at her. I can't find it anywhere
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 403 days
Last activity: 395 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.15
    Originally posted by reddragon
    Check out his website on www.raveneffect.com he seems pretty busy at the moment.
    In my opinion he is a fantastic worker who is usually overlooked because of his ablity to brawl with his wrestling style


WOW, that is a pretty damn cool website design.

Thanks for all your info/opinions folks. Good reads



snoogans.... BONG


reddragon
Polska kielbasa








Since: 23.8.03
From: Scotland

Since last post: 3812 days
Last activity: 3726 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.03
I know its cool i'm looking at it at the moment reading his journal



Sad news i'm afraid i now have a full time job so i won't be spending my free time on the Weinerboard

Now how in the F**K do these URL's work again
Does anyone have a picure of The White Stripes where Meg is getting knives thrown at her. I can't find it anywhere
Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 22 days
Last activity: 3 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
I thank my fellow "Whiners" (harhar) for going into more of the story. It was even weirder than I remember, and still somehow Raven turned into a winning storyline through sheer will.

I agree with Quezzy that the greatest thing about Raven was his ability to feud with anyone and make it look convincing. I think that even though Raven was stunted somewhat in WCW, he still had great matches and good stories and even made his Flock angle work for awhile. Don't forget that when the Flock disbanded, both Saturn and Kidman made out better because of the angle. Their face turns were tremendous and they helped carry WCW for a while.



In 5 days, you will see the return of the Undertaker, the Dead Man that most of us have been clamoring for for years.

Also in 5 days, you will see most of us complain about the return of the Dead Man, the Dead Man that most of us have been clamoring for for years.

Damned (straight to Hell) if you do, damned (straight to Hell) if you don't.
Dexley's Midnight Jogger
Pepperoni
Moderator








Since: 10.10.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 294 days
Last activity: 208 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.28
I've heard the story before but I forgot. What happened again when Raven called Kanyon a mark on camera?
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 1 day
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.97
He called him a mark. That was about it. Kanyon was following him around his "house" (actually Ric Flairs house) with Raven and his "sister" (Oh Chastity, how I miss thee!) and Raven called him a mark. Nothing big really, just slamming him for being such a fucking hanger on.



I was once WOTD, and nobody bothered to tell me?
edge2333a
Bauerwurst








Since: 20.2.04
From: nashville

Since last post: 3877 days
Last activity: 3583 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    And, since we have to talk about Lesnar today; perhaps with the money they are saving from his contract they can finally afford to bring in Ralphus.

Hell yeah Ralphus! Hey maybe he was the one driving Christian's car!




Alright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer.
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I have a lot of thoughts tonight, so let's go to a list format. * I've been reading old Superman comics, and Jeff Resnick really gives off a "Clark Kent" vibe to me. Or perhaps The Rock playing Clark Kent in an SNL sketch.
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