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The W - Football - What a hypocrite!
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Santa Sangre
Bockwurst








Since: 21.6.02
From: Germany

Since last post: 419 days
Last activity: 307 days
#1 Posted on
I know this is a little late, but living on the East Coast I did not see the end of the Vikings-packers game. I did see some highlights on sportscenter today and then saw this article.

"The whistle hadn't blown and the officials had not said the play was over," Sherman said. "Until the play is over, he had the football, he's a viable threat with the football. So, I don't see how he could have done it any other way."


Click Here

Wow, Sherman, you sound a hell of lot like Sapp and Gruden did two weeks ago, ya damn hypocrite.

(edited by Santa Sangre on 10.12.02 1429)

(edited by Santa Sangre on 10.12.02 1458)
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dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 55 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#2 Posted on
I dont think the hit on Sunday was quite as bad as Sapp's but I see you're point.

OIn top of that nobody got injured this time so its much easier to defend the hit.

Besides, if all coaches and players started speaking objectively about football things would be a hell of a lot duller.



Undisputed Wiener of the day 6.11.02
tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4022 days
Last activity: 4022 days
#3 Posted on
I hope Sherman gets fined for those comments. What a friggin jerk.

(edited by tomvejada on 10.12.02 1521)


"I just got pinned by a friggin twelve-year-old."

Kurt Angle
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 428 days
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#4 Posted on
Here's the big difference: The guy who got hit, had the ball and hadn't been whistled down. Now, if he gets up with the ball and laterals to a Moss for a game winning touchdown, the DB is on the unemployment line. The blame should be on the ref who didn't blow the whistle. First rule of Football: Kill the guy with the ball.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
The Public Demands: Fire Tim Welsh.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 21 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Here's the big difference: The guy who got hit, had the ball and hadn't been whistled down. Now, if he gets up with the ball and laterals to a Moss for a game winning touchdown, the DB is on the unemployment line. The blame should be on the ref who didn't blow the whistle. First rule of Football: Kill the guy with the ball.


You can apply the same logic to Sapp's hit:

Brian Kelly (returning the INT) cuts back inside, and the Packers player makes the tackle because Sapp didn't make his block. Now Sapp messed up. So what's your point?
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 283 days
Last activity: 276 days
#6 Posted on

As a Packer fan, I didn't think the Sapp hit was all that bad.

I also know that the Minnesota reciever was an idiot for trying what he did. Actually, the Pack should've waited until time ran out, THEN smashed him.



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cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 126 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Here's the big difference: The guy who got hit, had the ball and hadn't been whistled down. Now, if he gets up with the ball and laterals to a Moss for a game winning touchdown, the DB is on the unemployment line. The blame should be on the ref who didn't blow the whistle. First rule of Football: Kill the guy with the ball.


    You can apply the same logic to Sapp's hit:

    Brian Kelly (returning the INT) cuts back inside, and the Packers player makes the tackle because Sapp didn't make his block. Now Sapp messed up. So what's your point?



You can NOT apply the same logic. Sapp creamed Clifton who didn't even see him coming, was not carrying the ball, and never had a chance of being a credible threat to the ball carrier...he was 30 fricking yards from the action.

Welsh had the ball, and was going to his knee very slowly it looked to me like he was hesitating. Right or wrong, when I first saw him going to his knee, my first thought was "What the hell is he doing?". Judging be the general confusion from the refs, they were thinking the same thing.

Edwards hit him straight on...which he should have since the whistle hadn't blown and the game, with playoff implications, was on the line. Personally, although I didn't appreciate Sapp's hit...I don't think it was necessary...I also don't think he intended to hurt Clifton.

As for what happened after all that? Sharper should have gone down after the interception instead of adding fuel to the fire. Kleinsasser (sp?) and company should have kept their butts on the bench. And Cletidus Hunt should have DEFINITELY not ran across the field to get involved. There's plenty of blame to go around in that fracas.

(I know that I was more "pro GB" in a different thread opener, but that was right after the game. I've seen and heard more now.)



(edited by cranlsn on 10.12.02 2301)


10-3 NORTH DIVISION CHAMPIONS - Bring on the 'niners!
Brett Favre = 4 time MVP!

Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Here's the big difference: The guy who got hit, had the ball and hadn't been whistled down. Now, if he gets up with the ball and laterals to a Moss for a game winning touchdown, the DB is on the unemployment line. The blame should be on the ref who didn't blow the whistle. First rule of Football: Kill the guy with the ball.


    You can apply the same logic to Sapp's hit:

    Brian Kelly (returning the INT) cuts back inside, and the Packers player makes the tackle because Sapp didn't make his block. Now Sapp messed up. So what's your point?



Time for us to contrast and compare.

What was similar about the 2 incidents? Both were considered "Cheap shots"

what was different? Coach confronted Sapp after the game and they almost came to blows. more was made of the jawing than the actual hit. The packer who was hit was a not a ball carrier, but an OL who was no where near the play, and would not have made a play if let go to "run" or "jiggle" down field.

in the most recient one, dude had the ball and went to a knee, and was tackled. Should he have hit the "downed" player so hard? probably not, but was he trying to knock the shit outta him to cause a fumble? hell yes. was the play over? no. why? THE REF BLEW IT, AND DIDN'T WHISTLE THE PLAY OVER. The play is not over until the whistle is blown.

To me, it was a heads up play by the defence, but yes, you can't REALLY justify such a hard hit. I mean, if he wanted, he could have punched the ball out, or grabbed it, or let him toss it to the ground ala that steeler who keeps throwing balls away without being downed.

But in the heat of the moment, i can't really judge.

Both hits were legal, valid, but ultimatly unnessarly rough in my opinion. But that's how the game is played...




DDP: Well, there's this little passage I got memorized, Diamond Dallas 25:17. Sort of fits this occasion:

"The path of the bookerman is beset on all sides by the inequities of the talented, and the tyranny of workrate freaks. Blessed is he, who in the name of tradition and sports entertainment carries the stiffs through the matches of Nitro, for he is truly the workrate's keeper, and the finder of lost quality. And I will lay the smack down upon thee with great vengeance and furious roid rage those who attempt to outwrestle and expose my brothers. And you will know my name as the Bookerman, when I lay my catchphrase upon thee!"

DDP & Kevin: *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!*

-From MrJF's Pulp Bookerman

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R-D-Z
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 21 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
I wasn't saying the two hits were the same thing. I was pointing out the inconsitency in some peoples' logic. Someone justified one hit by saying there was potentiak for the play to break out into something else, but ignored that same possibility for thother hit. Yes, you can apply the same logic.

And by the way, cranism, for the last time, I don't care how far from the play he was, if Clifton had no chance to make a play, why was he running to the ball still?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 11.12.02 0256)
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 126 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    I wasn't saying the two hits were the same thing. I was pointing out the inconsitency in some peoples' logic. Someone justified one hit by saying there was potentiak for the play to break out into something else, but ignored that same possibility for thother hit. Yes, you can apply the same logic.

    And by the way, cranism, for the last time, I don't care how far from the play he was, if Clifton had no chance to make a play, why was he running to the ball still?

    (edited by TheBucsFan on 11.12.02 0256)



Look I'm not trying to start a fight or anything so I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Clifton was following his training...moving towards the play, even though he knew that he wouldn't be able to waddle over there in time to make a difference. Just as Edwards was following his training...until the whistle blows you try to get that ball. (You CAN even argue that Sapp was following his training in making a block...I just feel that launching himself helmet first was unneccesary. Apparently I disagree with the NFL too .)

I didn't ignore that possibility. It's just that in one case it is SO slim. If Clifton had been about to grab the ball carrier, the hit would have been just as legal, but more necessary.

By the way...I'm with Rikidozan...I don't think it was necessary for Edwards to hit Walsh as hard as he did either. But at least Welsh saw it coming.

I'm all for dropping this...we're NEVER going to agree. Honestly I'm not trying to change your mind either, just present my opinion. I don't think that either hit was necessary, just that one was a little cheaper than the other.





10-3 NORTH DIVISION CHAMPIONS - Bring on the 'niners!
Brett Favre = 4 time MVP!

Santa Sangre
Bockwurst








Since: 21.6.02
From: Germany

Since last post: 419 days
Last activity: 307 days
#11 Posted on
And all of you missed my intent with the thread. MIKE SHERMAN IS A HYPOCRITE. Yes I know he is just sticking up for his guy. But I lost all respect for him after the game three weeks ago.
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 126 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#12 Posted on
I don't think we missed your intent, it just morphed into a discussion of the two hits.

I don't think Sherman's a hypocrite (big surprise, huh?). They were two very different plays. One in which an offensive lineman was hit, the other in which the ball carrier on a potentially winning carry was hit.

As said before, I don't think either hit was necessary, but both were legal. In my opinion, and apparently Sherman's, one is more defensible than the other.

'nuff said.



10-3 NORTH DIVISION CHAMPIONS - Bring on the 'niners!
Brett Favre = 4 time MVP!

dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 55 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by Santa Sangre
    And all of you missed my intent with the thread. MIKE SHERMAN IS A HYPOCRITE. Yes I know he is just sticking up for his guy. But I lost all respect for him after the game three weeks ago.


Having watched both hits a few times since posting earlier I think the reason the Sapp hit was worse was that he seemed to use his helmet as a weapon in making a block that wasn't necessary (though still legitimate in theory).

In contrast I would say it was the officials that screwed up vs the Vikings. They didnt blow the play dead, so edwards tackled the ball carrier. Should he just have tagged the guy down instead of going in hard? Yes, and outwith the heat of a game he probably would.

Do I hate Sapp or think he's a dirty player? Hell no, he's one of the hardest but fairest players in the league. Sure he gives out a bit of chat but thats all part of the game and why I love it.

Is Mike Sherman a hypocrite? Well probably, but most of us are cos we see things from our own teams perspective. Hell if that Sapp hit had been delivered by Hugh I'd be on here defending him to the hilt. Man I even tried to mount a defense for Dawkins after the Giants game. Not a very good one, but i tried.



Undisputed Wiener of the day 6.11.02
calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 509 days
Last activity: 3 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by cranlsn
    Clifton was following his training...



To be honest with you Clifton was not following his training. If he was he would have been looking all around him. I have heard many former NFL players say that after an INT you put your head on a swivel because you have no idea where the next hit will be coming from.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by calvinh0560

      Originally posted by cranlsn
      Clifton was following his training...



    To be honest with you Clifton was not following his training. If he was he would have been looking all around him. I have heard many former NFL players say that after an INT you put your head on a swivel because you have no idea where the next hit will be coming from.



and dude wasn't "running" to make a play. he was looking around to see what had happened and was lumbering around. think a 300+ plus man can stop on a dime? and sapp didn't help matters because that was a 700 pound collision.

i think more people are on sapp because of his espn interview. "I had no control how gravity affected his body when he hit the ground!" uh, yes you did warren, you delivered the hit, sigh... "I didn't know he'd get spine damage or whatever." he used "Whatever" in reference to clifton like 8 times and seemed more interested in clearing his name as a cheap shot artist than actually showing any responsibility that he may have robbed someone of the ability to walk... I guessed i said all i can too...

"Shizzle my nizzle ya all" -- Dr. Evil



DDP: Well, there's this little passage I got memorized, Diamond Dallas 25:17. Sort of fits this occasion:

"The path of the bookerman is beset on all sides by the inequities of the talented, and the tyranny of workrate freaks. Blessed is he, who in the name of tradition and sports entertainment carries the stiffs through the matches of Nitro, for he is truly the workrate's keeper, and the finder of lost quality. And I will lay the smack down upon thee with great vengeance and furious roid rage those who attempt to outwrestle and expose my brothers. And you will know my name as the Bookerman, when I lay my catchphrase upon thee!"

DDP & Kevin: *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!* *BANG!*

-From MrJF's Pulp Bookerman

www.mozilla.org go here and make the switch, you won't regret it!

R-D-Z
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