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Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 59 days
Last activity: 59 days
#1 Posted on
Netherlands opens first "deportation center" for immigrants


Can we be a little more like the Dutch? I like their plan for "The Way to a Safer Society". Why can't our leadership create a similar plan?

"Last year, the number of asylum seekers fell by more than half to around 20,000, from 44,000 in 2000, largely due to tougher immigration laws. "

Sounds like they are doing something right over there.



'But if one is struck by me only a little, that is far different, the stroke is a sharp thing and suddenly lays him lifeless, and that man's wife goes with cheeks torn in lamentation, and his children are fatherless, while he, staining the soil with his red blood, rots away, and there are more birds than women swarming about him.' Diomedes, The Iliad of Homer

Maiden RULES!!!
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1246 days
Last activity: 1043 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29


Those are phrases I never would've associated with Holland....but they are doing something right over there.



"When life hands you lemons, head down the hall, hide in the closet of your enemy, wait until they get a papercut, then leap out shouting BANZAI and crush the lemon in your hand right over the papercut. Save the peel. Go downstairs to the bar. Order a vodka. Use the peel. Yum!"
- James Lileks
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2807 days
Last activity: 2649 days
AIM:  
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Well, things hit the boiling point over there. Pim Fortuyn, etc. They seem to have their share of problem with Muslim immigrants, but I would never be so racist as to suggest that we have similar ones.



MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 5 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
Well, I'm glad you've all learned that Europe isn't as enlightened and progressive as they like to think.

Western Europe has a strange relationship with immigrants stemming from three things:

1: It's heartfelt desire to see itself as completely non-racist and liberal because of it's horrific history with the issue, combined with

2: The fact that it is very far from actually being completely non-racist and liberal because while old dogs might be able to cover up their spots, it's a lot harder to actually change them, and

3: A very zero-sum view of economics, and also culture.

Here in America, the general concensus (except among you who think we should shut the door after ourselves) is that immigrants come here, and have the ability to work hard and make a good life for themselves, and God Bless Them and the USA if they manage to do so. And hey, if the side effect means some good Mexican down the street, all the better. And of course, if they don't want to work hard and make a better life for themselves, who cares as long as you don't break the law and my tax dollars aren't subsidizing you.

In Europe, however, the view is that immigrants come and, if they try to work, it means they're taking jobs from natives. And, of course, they have a much longer and less flexible cultural history than ours, which makes them very resistant and prone to the idea that any kind of cultural addition is going to take away some kind of native culture (I.e., "that Mexican restaraunt's going to drive the chippery out of business.")

But, of course, there is a very large "white man's burden" thing of helping the poor refugees, so they let them in, but (get this) don't let them work, AND subsidize. So they end up taking from the social welfare net rather than contributing to society, and the contributions they do make aren't appreciated.

So no, we don't need these things over here at all. They're Un-American. Unlike it idiot Europe, we

a) give immigrants the opportunity to work and improve their own lives
b) don't subsize immigrants anywhere close to the levels that Europe does
c) appreciate the contributions immigrants make to our society and economy

This has been the winning combination for this country since its founding, and is the reason everyone on this message board and in this country has anywhere near the level of comfort and quality-of-life that they do. And it doesn't need messing with now. We aren't Europe, thank God.



"I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about 'man on dog' with a United States Senator. It's sort of freaking me out."


Associated Press interview with Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), 04-07-2003.
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2807 days
Last activity: 2649 days
AIM:  
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
A.) "Non-racist and liberal." Are these two necessarily related, or is that just a conceit of yours?

B.) "It doesn't need messing with now." Pardon me, but I don't think we had a diversity lottery before Fat Teddy Kennedy got around to re-writing American immigration policy. The history of immigration is one of controlled waves, more or less. We're glad to let people in, we just do it in a lawful and organized fashion. And we should stop taking color and creed into account; let's just let in people we could use, dammit.



MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 5 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
We don't take creed and color into account, and haven't since Ted Kennedy got around to re-writing American immigration policy. We take two things into account primarily:

1 - family re-unification. Smart, because this ensures that immigrants already have a support structure here, as well as the fact that it's always nice when families are together. And hey, with the recent Supreme Court decision, maybe domestic-partner re-unification will get a priority also

2 - People we can use. We let in an enourmous amount of tech workers and computer folks in the 90s, for instance. This isn't remotely as big a factor as family, (I think it's something like 80/20), but it is the second biggest factor. Also smart, because this ensures that they have jobs when they get here.

I didn't mean to imply that non-racist and liberal are always together. Like I said, look at Europe to see how they aren't.



"I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about 'man on dog' with a United States Senator. It's sort of freaking me out."


Associated Press interview with Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), 04-07-2003.
godking
Chourico








Since: 20.10.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 3882 days
Last activity: 3828 days
#7 Posted on
Here in America, the general concensus (except among you who think we should shut the door after ourselves)

The problem is that according to polling, America's general consensus is your "except". Well over sixty percent routinely favor serious lowering of the immigration rate.

Just pointing that out is all. Me, I'm all for immigration. It's done wonders for Canada.
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