Maybe but he was nothing compared to the good presidents. Teddy Roosevelt, FDR sometimes, Jefferson, and Washington. People over romantize the JFK presidency because he got killed. But that has little to do with what he did when he was in office. But I certainly agree that LBJ was a horrible president. From 60 to 80 I wouldn't say that any of the presidents were that good. Sure Reagan violated a shitload of laws and said some crazy stuff. But I feel that everything he did right, wrong, or illegal he did to make what he thought would make the US better. Can Nixon say that?
Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
Gotta disagree somewhat on LBJ being a "disastrous" president. I'm sure as hell not going to defend what the man did in Vietnam, but he WAS largely instrumental in a lot of VERY good civil rights legislation. Maybe he should replaced on your list by Grant.
Andrew Jackson generally holds mixed reviews among historians. He was pretty much an uncouth bully, but he did do a lot to increase the powers of the presidency.
Bill Clinton...well lets give it a couple more years. Right now, us liberals are too busy singing his praises and you conservatives are too busy wishing a slow painful death on the man (televised for your amusement). Let's see how 8 or 9 years treats him.
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It's clearly just Grimis's misbegotten little opinion. How else can Ronald "I May Have Shot The Economy To Shit And Armed Every Enemy The US Has Had Since My Adminstration, I Do Not Recall" Reagan a great president? Oh yeah, I forgot. He took all the credit for the end of the Cold War. My mistake.
"The only difference between lilies and turds are those humankind have agreed upon, and I don't always agree." ---George Carlin
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Originally posted by JaguarI'm just curious about why you made the list the way you did. What made Reagan and Truman 'great' presidents? And what bumped FDR down?
Reagan: Ending the cold war, standing up to the USSR, tax decreases, the devolution revolution
Truman: Avoding war on numerous occasions, the Truman Doctrine, response to the Berlin Blockade, the difficult decision to use the Atomic Bomb, squelching the railroad strike(even though politically unpopular) because it was in the national interest.
Roosevelt: FDR got bumped down because of the New Deal. Might as well been a raw deal. A majority of the New Deal programs never worked and we're still saddled with them(and the costs to run them) today. He never did bring the country out of the depression on his own accord...
That was done by the start of wartime production in 1940 under the Lend-Lease agreement, and the subsequent US involvement of the war. No matter the political stripes, FDR handled the war-time situation in regards to diplomacy and allowing the military folks to handle the majority of the strategy pretty well.
Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastardIt's clearly just Grimis's misbegotten little opinion. How else can Ronald "I May Have Shot The Economy To Shit And Armed Every Enemy The US Has Had Since My Adminstration, I Do Not Recall" Reagan a great president? Oh yeah, I forgot. He took all the credit for the end of the Cold War. My mistake.
So, uh... the guy largely responsible for the positioning of US military assets for the final ten years of Soviet Communism wasn't responsible (at least, largely) for the end of the Cold War? Don't you think you're being just a little petty when you try to deny that the President of the United States, the man in charge of the most powerful state in the world, and the one most opposed to Communism, was not responsible for the end of the Cold War?
Mr. OldFuzzyBastard, tear that post down.
(I don't mean to give all the credit to Reagan, of course. Thatcher undoubtedly had a lot to do with it.)
Using a key to gouge expletives on another's vehicle is a sign of trust and friendship.
The Soviet Union was self-destructing from within since the 1960s. Their centralized economy just wasn't happening, and they knew it as early as Kruschev. Now, the arms race that Reagan was happy to engage in certainly sped up the process. But with the benefit of hindsight, the collapse of the Soviet Union was inevitable. Gorbachev and his inner circle deserves at least some credit, what?
Ronald Reagan -- does anybody remember Iran/Contra? You know, sell weapons to a terrorist state via Lebanese terrorists and use the illegal profits to give to drug-running central American terrorists? How the fuck Reagan avoided impeachment ... it is absolutely staggering. On the other hand, from 1986-88 he was so zoned out with Alzheimers, Nancy's astrologer and the Cabinet ran the country by proxy, so maybe the "out of control cowboys" excuse was legit. It's got to be one or the other though, and neither leads to a Great President label.
Dwight Eisenhower -- where the hell is he your list Grimmy? Utter champion of a president. He had moral authority out of the yang, and detente with the Soviets led to post-War stability. And he was a Republican for heaven's sake!
We need Ike in these dark days. Where is he? I like Ike.
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I'd just like to put in that Truman was an idiot. Not completely his fault though, as FDR never talked to him before he died, so Truman had no idea what he was doing. I'll add more detail after I re-research it a little bit.
If I remember correctly, you can tell Truman had no idea what he was doing from his diary at the time of FDR's death and the dropping of the Bomb. Let me go read up on the rest of his presidency though, to see if he redeemed himself for that and managing to plunge us into the Cold War.
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To get a little further back in time, I've got to nominate James K. Polk for a "great president" label, and perhaps the "most underrated" award also. No fancy pictures on currency or big heads on mountains, but this guy is essentially the main person responsible for shaping the territory of the United States as we know it today. And he kept a 4-year term-limit pledge to boot.
Now, if this guy were around today I wouldn't be down with him, considering the tacit support for slavery and the not-quite-on-the-level provocation of a war solely for terrotorial gain. But for the 1840s, he was pretty darn good.
Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Originally posted by GavintzuDwight Eisenhower -- where the hell is he your list Grimmy? Utter champion of a president. He had moral authority out of the yang, and detente with the Soviets led to post-War stability. And he was a Republican for heaven's sake!
We need Ike in these dark days. Where is he? I like Ike.
I was never that impressed with Ike. He may have had moral authority, but that does not a presidency make. Incidentally, detente was not official policy until Kissinger got Nixon to go along with in during his first term.
Originally posted by MoeGatesTo get a little further back in time, I've got to nominate James K. Polk for a "great president" label, and perhaps the "most underrated" award also.
Not a bad choice.
Originally posted by JaguarI'd just like to put in that Truman was an idiot. Not completely his fault though, as FDR never talked to him before he died, so Truman had no idea what he was doing. I'll add more detail after I re-research it a little bit.
I wouldn't call him an idiot. But your point about FDR keeping him out of the loop on important matters is correct...
Here's the Congressional Budget Office's latest projections and analysis: http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=5530&sequence=0 From there, you can click on the links to the different chapters. Here's a brief summary (of the issue, not the CBO study)...