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Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 2026 days
Last activity: 1679 days
#21 Posted on
Maybe but he was nothing compared to the good presidents. Teddy Roosevelt, FDR sometimes, Jefferson, and Washington. People over romantize the JFK presidency because he got killed. But that has little to do with what he did when he was in office.
But I certainly agree that LBJ was a horrible president. From 60 to 80 I wouldn't say that any of the presidents were that good. Sure Reagan violated a shitload of laws and said some crazy stuff. But I feel that everything he did right, wrong, or illegal he did to make what he thought would make the US better. Can Nixon say that?



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1269 days
Last activity: 1066 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
The list of "great" Presidents is pretty short:

George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Abraham Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt
Harry Truman
Ronald Reagan

Then there are the "half-great" Presidents, who were great for part of their term but not so great for others:

Woodrow Wilson
Franklin Roosevelt
John F Kennedy


And then there were the "disastrous" presidents whose terms we would probably been better off without:

Andrew Jackson
James Buchanan
Warren Harding
Herbert Hoover
Lyndon Johnson
Gerald Ford
Jimmy Carter
Bill Clinton
astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 2580 days
Last activity: 2547 days
AIM:  
#23 Posted on
Gotta disagree somewhat on LBJ being a "disastrous" president. I'm sure as hell not going to defend what the man did in Vietnam, but he WAS largely instrumental in a lot of VERY good civil rights legislation. Maybe he should replaced on your list by Grant.

Andrew Jackson generally holds mixed reviews among historians. He was pretty much an uncouth bully, but he did do a lot to increase the powers of the presidency.

Bill Clinton...well lets give it a couple more years. Right now, us liberals are too busy singing his praises and you conservatives are too busy wishing a slow painful death on the man (televised for your amusement). Let's see how 8 or 9 years treats him.



"Words to memorize. Words hypnotize. Words make my mouth exercise. Words all fail the magic prize. Nothing I can say when I'm in your thighs."

-Violent Femmes
Fletch
Cotechino








Since: 17.7.02
From: Columbus, Ohio

Since last post: 4366 days
Last activity: 4363 days
#24 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    The list of "great" Presidents is pretty short:

    George Washington
    Thomas Jefferson
    James Madison
    Abraham Lincoln
    Theodore Roosevelt
    Harry Truman
    Ronald Reagan

    Then there are the "half-great" Presidents, who were great for part of their term but not so great for others:

    Woodrow Wilson
    Franklin Roosevelt
    John F Kennedy


    And then there were the "disastrous" presidents whose terms we would probably been better off without:

    Andrew Jackson
    James Buchanan
    Warren Harding
    Herbert Hoover
    Lyndon Johnson
    Gerald Ford
    Jimmy Carter
    Bill Clinton



What's this list based on? Is it the "Genuis Scholars Aa through Zz" listing or your opinion?

I've seen the former a few times and it doesn't match with my memory... Hmm...
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 12 days
AIM:  
#25 Posted on
It's clearly just Grimis's misbegotten little opinion. How else can Ronald "I May Have Shot The Economy To Shit And Armed Every Enemy The US Has Had Since My Adminstration, I Do Not Recall" Reagan a great president? Oh yeah, I forgot. He took all the credit for the end of the Cold War. My mistake.




"The only difference between lilies and turds are those humankind have agreed upon, and I don't always agree."
---George Carlin

"Facts?! Aw, people can use facts to explain anything that's even remotely true!"
---Homer Simpson
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1269 days
Last activity: 1066 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by Fletch
    What's this list based on? Is it the "Genuis Scholars Aa through Zz" listing or your opinion?

    I've seen the former a few times and it doesn't match with my memory... Hmm...



Just the opinion of your run of the mill 23 year old with a Political Science degree or two. Nothing really scholastic involved.

EDIT: But at least I haven't belittled OFB(Re my "little" opinion). Some of us were born with the gene that allows us to keep our foot out of our mouths.

(edited by Grimis on 2.10.02 1117)
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 198 days
Last activity: 198 days
#27 Posted on
I'm just curious about why you made the list the way you did. What made Reagan and Truman 'great' presidents? And what bumped FDR down?

-Jag



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1269 days
Last activity: 1066 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    I'm just curious about why you made the list the way you did. What made Reagan and Truman 'great' presidents? And what bumped FDR down?

    -Jag



Reagan: Ending the cold war, standing up to the USSR, tax decreases, the devolution revolution

Truman: Avoding war on numerous occasions, the Truman Doctrine, response to the Berlin Blockade, the difficult decision to use the Atomic Bomb, squelching the railroad strike(even though politically unpopular) because it was in the national interest.

Roosevelt: FDR got bumped down because of the New Deal. Might as well been a raw deal. A majority of the New Deal programs never worked and we're still saddled with them(and the costs to run them) today. He never did bring the country out of the depression on his own accord...

That was done by the start of wartime production in 1940 under the Lend-Lease agreement, and the subsequent US involvement of the war. No matter the political stripes, FDR handled the war-time situation in regards to diplomacy and allowing the military folks to handle the majority of the strategy pretty well.

(edited by Grimis on 2.10.02 1142)
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2830 days
Last activity: 2672 days
AIM:  
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    It's clearly just Grimis's misbegotten little opinion. How else can Ronald "I May Have Shot The Economy To Shit And Armed Every Enemy The US Has Had Since My Adminstration, I Do Not Recall" Reagan a great president? Oh yeah, I forgot. He took all the credit for the end of the Cold War. My mistake.



So, uh... the guy largely responsible for the positioning of US military assets for the final ten years of Soviet Communism wasn't responsible (at least, largely) for the end of the Cold War? Don't you think you're being just a little petty when you try to deny that the President of the United States, the man in charge of the most powerful state in the world, and the one most opposed to Communism, was not responsible for the end of the Cold War?

Mr. OldFuzzyBastard, tear that post down.

(I don't mean to give all the credit to Reagan, of course. Thatcher undoubtedly had a lot to do with it.)



Using a key to gouge expletives on another's vehicle is a sign of trust and friendship.
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2866 days
Last activity: 2866 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
The Soviet Union was self-destructing from within since the 1960s. Their centralized economy just wasn't happening, and they knew it as early as Kruschev. Now, the arms race that Reagan was happy to engage in certainly sped up the process. But with the benefit of hindsight, the collapse of the Soviet Union was inevitable. Gorbachev and his inner circle deserves at least some credit, what?

Ronald Reagan -- does anybody remember Iran/Contra? You know, sell weapons to a terrorist state via Lebanese terrorists and use the illegal profits to give to drug-running central American terrorists? How the fuck Reagan avoided impeachment ... it is absolutely staggering. On the other hand, from 1986-88 he was so zoned out with Alzheimers, Nancy's astrologer and the Cabinet ran the country by proxy, so maybe the "out of control cowboys" excuse was legit. It's got to be one or the other though, and neither leads to a Great President label.

Dwight Eisenhower -- where the hell is he your list Grimmy? Utter champion of a president. He had moral authority out of the yang, and detente with the Soviets led to post-War stability. And he was a Republican for heaven's sake!

We need Ike in these dark days. Where is he? I like Ike.






And in the end, the love you take
Is equal to the love you make.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 198 days
Last activity: 198 days
#31 Posted on
I'd just like to put in that Truman was an idiot. Not completely his fault though, as FDR never talked to him before he died, so Truman had no idea what he was doing. I'll add more detail after I re-research it a little bit.

-Jag

If I remember correctly, you can tell Truman had no idea what he was doing from his diary at the time of FDR's death and the dropping of the Bomb. Let me go read up on the rest of his presidency though, to see if he redeemed himself for that and managing to plunge us into the Cold War.



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#32 Posted on
To get a little further back in time, I've got to nominate James K. Polk for a "great president" label, and perhaps the "most underrated" award also. No fancy pictures on currency or big heads on mountains, but this guy is essentially the main person responsible for shaping the territory of the United States as we know it today. And he kept a 4-year term-limit pledge to boot.

Now, if this guy were around today I wouldn't be down with him, considering the tacit support for slavery and the not-quite-on-the-level provocation of a war solely for terrotorial gain. But for the 1840s, he was pretty darn good.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1269 days
Last activity: 1066 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Gavintzu
    Dwight Eisenhower -- where the hell is he your list Grimmy? Utter champion of a president. He had moral authority out of the yang, and detente with the Soviets led to post-War stability. And he was a Republican for heaven's sake!

    We need Ike in these dark days. Where is he? I like Ike.





I was never that impressed with Ike. He may have had moral authority, but that does not a presidency make. Incidentally, detente was not official policy until Kissinger got Nixon to go along with in during his first term.


    Originally posted by MoeGates
    To get a little further back in time, I've got to nominate James K. Polk for a "great president" label, and perhaps the "most underrated" award also.


Not a bad choice.



    Originally posted by Jaguar
    I'd just like to put in that Truman was an idiot. Not completely his fault though, as FDR never talked to him before he died, so Truman had no idea what he was doing. I'll add more detail after I re-research it a little bit.


I wouldn't call him an idiot. But your point about FDR keeping him out of the loop on important matters is correct...
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1315 days
Last activity: 81 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#34 Posted on
The whole idea that you have to be in the military to be in politics is somewhat facist... I mean isn't the whole core point of facism the control of government by the military?



Craig Reade
"Pool Boy"

Detroit Lions! 1-3!
On the road to oh and sixt... Wha?
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