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The W - Site Bashing - Wade Keller disses the Masterpiece/Walters match
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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.99
http://www.pwtorch.com/artman/publish/article_12159.shtml

I don't get Wade's argument. Why would WWE care if Walters holds a title in a minor league organization? Hasn't he figured out by now that in Vince's mind, if it ain't WWE, it's nothing?



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Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.99
I think Wade's saying the WWE should care about not making ROH look weak, because it's in WWE's best interests for ROH to grow into competition that would stimulate the entire industry. But yeah, WWE is never going to hold that opinion, so he's wasting his time making this point.

Really, it's ROH's fault for letting one of their reigning champions wrestle on WWE television. At the very least, they should have taken the title off of Walters before he did the show.
CANADIAN BULLDOG
Andouille








Since: 5.3.03
From: TORONTO

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
I'll second that ROH is to blame here, if anyone. I mean, the Masters match made THEIR guy look super-weak. If they're going to push him as the best pure wrestler around (I've only seen one ROH match of his to date, and he's excellent), then they should go to lengths to make sure Walters doesn't show up at a Raw taping as a jobber.

Now, I'm sure most guys would kill to show up on WWE tapings, its the biggest exposure they're going to get by far. But with a base like ROH that prides itself on being better than the WWE hosses, word is going to get around quickly, and it did.

And I totally agree with Big Bad -- WWE just doesn't care.

(edited by CANADIAN BULLDOG on 2.3.05 1003)


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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.19
    Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOG
    But with a base like ROH that prides itself on being better than the WWE hosses, word is going to get around quickly, and it did.


But what is that word? That Walters looked bad jobbing on Raw? The RoH fanbase is smart enough to know that this doesn't affect Walters' wrestling credibility. If anything, they'll either fault him for making a bad decision that poorly reflects on RoH and the Pure Wrestling Title, or they'll just chalk it up as Vince being Vince and move on. I could see Walters getting taunted at his next appearance, but I doubt this has life beyond that. IMHO, this seems to be much ado about nothing.



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BigSteve
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Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.40
I saw Keller go on about this, and it really bothered me. A lot of time people talk about "insulting the fans intelligence." To me, the most insulting thing is Keller and anyone else acting like this is a big deal.

First of all, sealing for myself and the other 99 out of 100 people that watch Raw but not ROH, I had no idea who it was. I have heard the name John Walters and knew he was an ROH guy, but I couldn't pick him out of a lineup. I don't care who he is.

As for ROH fans, I can't possibly believe that a group of fans that watches that type of wrestling will think less of Walters because he did a TV job on Raw. I understand the poin that Keller is trying to get across, and if this were a real sport where the match results are the defining factor in the success of promotions and of individual wrestlers, then I'd agree. But it's not. Yeah, Walters looked weak, but if anyone thinks that ROH and WWE are on the same level in terms of star power, well, they're dead wrong. (Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against ROH, and it's great that people like it. But it's just not on the same level as the WWE.



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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
This would be a far more interesting/relevant story* if Xavier wasn't losing Velocity matches to Chuck Palumbo when he was ROH Champion Of Video Tape Machines Around The World, two years ago. Old news.

WWE's never cared about protecting the worth of someone else's title belt before (see: Benoit as uncrowned WCW champion losing to Triple H, Tazz as actual ECW champion losing to Triple H, first person to make a Triple H joke gets banned), so how and why this comes to a shock or surprise to anyone who supposedly follows wrestling completely mystifies me. If you've been watching, you might notice they don't care about half the belts with the ol' WWE logo imprinted on them - why would they care about someone elses?

And if Gabe and ROH really had a problem with it, they wouldn't put the belt on guys they knew were going on TV, since any local who gets a TV is actually BEGGING for a spot on RAW just like Walters got - you're going to lose wherever you are, but maybe you'll get a one moment to make yourself in front of a huge audience, what could be greater?

As is, isn't Walters a heel? Won't they just spin this into a Nananananana bit or mocking chant and life goes on?

If you wanted to take Keller's idea 2 the XTREME (march), they oguht to stop booking locals for any and all spots because if they're qualified enough (read: got the connections) to be on WWE TV, they're probably holding some NTO Intergalatic Pants Title which would be horribly scarred by a loss to Hurricane and Rosey on Heat. I'm sure the wrestlers would just love that.

* or maybe still not



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Since: 17.9.03
From: Holley, New York

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.94
Keller's contempt for the "average" (i.e., non-Torch reading) fan really shined bright in that review with this and his diatribes against the JBL/Cena WM 21 commercial.

OMG THEY'RE IN CHARACTER IN A COMMERCIAL THE AVERAGE FAN WON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK!



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    This would be a far more interesting/relevant story* if Xavier wasn't losing Velocity matches to Chuck Palumbo when he was ROH Champion Of Video Tape Machines Around The World, two years ago. Old news.

That's because Palumbo is a wrestling god. Don't make me rally the Palumbelievers.



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Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2359 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.99
    Originally posted by King Of Crap
    Keller's contempt for the "average" (i.e., non-Torch reading) fan really shined bright in that review with this and his diatribes against the JBL/Cena WM 21 commercial.

    OMG THEY'RE IN CHARACTER IN A COMMERCIAL THE AVERAGE FAN WON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK!


I did agree with Keller that the JBL/Cena bit broke kayfabe a little too much, but he got way too upset over it. OK, Wade, we get it--we don't need an "Angle and HBK re-enact Finding Nemo" analogy to figure out why this bugs you.

This is one of the reasons I'm so glad Friends is off the air, because a year ago we could count on a Keller's Take describing a hypothetical episode in which Joey and Chandler have a fight but then cooperate to re-enact a scene from a movie in the middle of the show.
Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.63
To the best of my knowledge...

1. The words "John Walters" or "Ring of Honor" were never mentioned on RAW. He was just some guy getting beaten up by The Masterpiece. We're not SUPPOSED to care about him. He's just there so we can go "Wow! Masters is better than somebody they're not bothering to name!"

2. It's a commercial, designed to get us interested in WrestleMania XXI. I don't recall Keller being all nuts when Triple H was riding a donkey in another commercial.



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Deputy Marshall
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Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.13
Not that it's a bad promotion, but I really really wish people would stop acting like ROH isn't an independent promotion. The way some people talk, you'd think the entire wrestling industry should be protecting every ROH worker and worship the ground they walk on. What about ROH guys (and even champions) who work for other independent promotions and do the occassional job? Wouldn't that under Keller's logic be a more serious problem, since they're more on the same level in terms of competition with ROH than the WWE is?

As for Cena/JBL, it's no more damaging than faces and heels (horribly) singing together in a video for "Piledriver: The Album." I've found recently that while many criticisms are valid, a lot of reporters like Keller are really reaching for them. They don't trust ROH fans (who consider themselves to be smarks) be able to disregard a squash match on RAW. They don't trust wrestling fans enough to distinguish between a feud for Wrestlemania and a commercial for the event, even though the biggest mark's interest in the Cena/JBL feud would not be affected in the slightest by the commercial.

Keller should stick what he does best - reporting items he receives from sources that are less reliable than Meltzer's.



Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.99
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    As for Cena/JBL, it's no more damaging than faces and heels (horribly) singing together in a video for "Piledriver: The Album."


Didn't they go to great lengths to portray the faces and heels being in separate stuidos, to imply that they couldn't even be in the same room without clobbering each other?

Really, that's the thing--characterization has changed since the '80s, and wrestlers are no longer presented as being completely unable to coexist with their rivals. I remember on the home video for Wrestlemania VII there was a intro package that showed Hulk Hogan and Sgt. Slaughter walking into the shot and staring each other down. In 1991 I knew Terry Bollea and Robert Remus wouldn't care to film that segment. But WWF seemed to want me to believe that Hulk Hogan and Sgt. Slaughter were willing to film the segment, despite having brutally attacked one another every other time they'd been in the same place.

Today, I find it a little weird that WWE would portray Cena and JBL--the characters, not the performers--as willing to cooperate for a spoof ad. But both characters are capable of restraining themselves and playing it cool to unnerve an opponent, so it's plausible (in some Apter-mag kind of reality) that Teddy Long ordered them to film the spot and that they managed to keep their tension off the set. What's weird about the spot isn't that it doesn't fit with WWE's internal logic; it's that WWE's internal logic isn't the same as it was 15 years ago.
BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2901 days
Last activity: 2629 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.40
Here's the thing about the Cena-JBL ad. In his Smackdown report, Keller said that the announcers could have made the situation better by saying how hard it was for Cena and JBL to get together to do that commercial together. I disagree.

The thing about this is, it hasn't been acknowledged on TV, therefore, within the content of the storylines, it doesn't even exist. It's like if Cena and JBL were both booked on the same talk show and didn't play up a feud but rather acted normally. No one would make a big deal about that would they.

It's just such a reach that Keller thinks everyone is such a mark that this is even close to being a valid criticism of WWE.



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Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.40
    Originally posted by BigSteve
    The thing about this is, it hasn't been acknowledged on TV, therefore, within the content of the storylines, it doesn't even exist.


Yes. The commercials aren't "commercials." This isn't a director saying "OK, Eugene, you're gonna start talking about WrestleMania, get all excited, then punch the woman on the bench." It's not Eugene playing a role or following a script. It's just Eugene being...Eugene (in a different setting). It's fantasy.
Barbwire Mike
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Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    To the best of my knowledge...

    1. The words "John Walters" or "Ring of Honor" were never mentioned on RAW. He was just some guy getting beaten up by The Masterpiece. We're not SUPPOSED to care about him. He's just there so we can go "Wow! Masters is better than somebody they're not bothering to name!"




Exactly, I had no clue who the guy was and was taking notice of the fact they didn't ever name him. If they'd made mention of that and snickered about it then yeah, it would've de-valued his status, but RoH fans are expected to know the deal.

Be happy their guy got a nice payday for an exhibition match and will be back to do his thing with no harm done (unlike to Stevie).



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Since: 17.9.03
From: Holley, New York

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.09
Walters just lost his title, so no damage done.



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