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BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.46
Well, the train wreck I was expecting never fully developed.

- Palin stated early that she was going to answer what she felt was needed and that's exactly what she did. She was very repetitive, very off point on a lot if not most of the questions, but I think it will be enough for some people. We know where she stands on energy!

- Biden was what I thought he was. He didn't stick his foot in his mouth and he had no knockout punch. I thought he did too much rambling, I thought he left too many openings left open. I think he neither helped nor hurt Obama's cause, which isn't what I was expecting.

- This was a poorly moderated debate. A WWE ref probably could have done as good a job as Gwen Ifill who apparently took a ref bump early and never fully recovered.



(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 2.10.08 2311)
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CRZ
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.86
Gwen Ifill had a broken ankle! I didn't know that!

Biden REALLY should have talked more about Barack Obama and less about Joe Biden, but that's not what he's about.

Palin could have answered more of the questions she was asked, but that's not what she's about, either.

Ultimately, nobody lost, which makes it a wash. Who you thought "won" probably determines how you've already made up your mind and are voting anyway.




RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.17
won my bet tonight - when in doubt, that idiot Biden brings up the dead wife and the kids. Croc tears from a snake. Good show, chum......p

Point being, I think, is Palin has been on the ropes for two weeks as "dumb", for reasons of people's own. Biden had a great opportunity to not *win* for the Dems, but at least kick someone when they are down. And he made it about HIM. (did someone say that already?)

The best thing about this election is the Democrats pissing in their hat. In 2000, people say it was fixed, in 2004, they ran that cocksucker Kerry, who drew 50 MILLION votes (ONLY TO LOSE BY 1 MILLION) - now, they get a silver platter handed to them them with a lame duck President, a bad war, a failed economy and a black JFK, running against a crazy old man with a semi-good looking pro-abortion God Freak WOMAN...and they will still lose

We don't need a 2 party system for this coming socialism. We need a king. Bill Clinton. New Heart and vibrato. Or maybe that's libido. And War on all those that have what we want. Conquer!. Fuck and kill. Like Romans.

FLEA


p.s. - CRZ is smaht

p.s.s - polls mean shit. don't forget to VOTE

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 3.10.08 0132)

Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I think, and in looking at polls it would seem I'm not alone, that most of the nation saw this differently than you did.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    Point being, I think, is Palin has been on the ropes for two weeks as "dumb", for reasons of people's own.


That might have something to do with her not being able to name more than one Supreme Court case, inadvertantly advocating her opponent's Afghanisation stance, and generally sounding like she doesn't know what the Hell she's talking about when people have asked her the most basic of questions.

And "the Democrats pissing in their hat"? Seriously? Am I misreading all the bad press about Palin, and McCain's protection of her, and Obama's lead in the Electoral College?



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 20 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.44
I don't know what VP debate the first three posters in this thread saw, but the VP debate *I* saw consisted of my jaw being on the floor for a good 30-45 minutes as I watched Palin get curb stomped thoroughly by Biden.

I went into it thinking he couldn't possibly crush her as everyone seemingly expected. After all, she's been getting prepped round the clock for the past several weeks, and Biden had quite a bit to lose if he was overzealous and started bullying her in front of a national primetime audience. Little did I know Sarah Palin takes debate lessons from Elisabeth Hasselbeck.

Also, did anyone else fall out of his chair laughing when she LITERALLY gave a "shout out" to kids watching at home?

- StingArmy

(edited by StingArmy on 3.10.08 0418)
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.46
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    won my bet tonight - when in doubt, that idiot Biden brings up the dead wife and the kids. Croc tears from a snake. Good show, chum......p




Of all the things to hit him on, you are going to hit him on that huh? Palin can bring up her retarded kid whenever it's convenient, McCain can always talk about being a POW, but Biden cannot mention that? Really?

That's one of those life changing events whether you are silverspoons on top of the hill or Joe fucking six pack. I thought he used it in the right spot, if he was going to use it at all.

whatever
Lap cheong








Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.51
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
      won my bet tonight - when in doubt, that idiot Biden brings up the dead wife and the kids. Croc tears from a snake. Good show, chum......p




    Of all the things to hit him on, you are going to hit him on that huh? Palin can bring up her retarded kid whenever it's convenient, McCain can always talk about being a POW, but Biden cannot mention that? Really?

    That's one of those life changing events whether you are silverspoons on top of the hill or Joe fucking six pack. I thought he used it in the right spot, if he was going to use it at all.



Not to mention Palin brought it up first:
"You mentioned education and I'm glad you did. I know education you are passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, and god bless her. Her reward is in heaven, right?"


The lovely Mrs. Whatever and I watched the debate together. When Palin said, "I'm still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again. And I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor. And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also.", it came across to us like, "Actual questions be damned, I'm just gonna say what I've been trained to say." To her credit, it seemed like she improved as the debate rolled on. That struck me as an awful start for her though.

So... basically I gotta agree with StingArmy. She seemed completely trounced early on, then I think she picked up a little steam later on only by not doing so horrendously.

(edited by whatever on 3.10.08 0537)



"As you may have read in Robert Parker's Wine Newsletter, 'Donaghy Estates tastes like the urine of Satan, after a hefty portion of asparagus.'" Jack Donaghy, 30 Rock

Downtown Bookie
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Since: 7.4.02
From: The Inner City, Now Living In The Country

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.22
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Who you thought "won" probably determines how you've already made up your mind and are voting anyway.
    Originally posted by CNN
    The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. said 51 percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job, while 36 percent thought Palin did the best job....The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.
    Originally posted by CBS
    Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama leads GOP rival John McCain 49 percent to 40 percent among registered voters in a new CBS News poll.....The error due to sampling for results based on the entire sample could be plus or minus three percentage points
51% - 49% = 2%; 40% - 36% = 4%; in other words, within the margin of error, the national polls show that the winner of the VP Debate in your eyes is the candidate you were planning on voting for anyway. Spot on CRZ.

The CNN poll numbers can be found here (cnn.com) while the CBS poll is located here (cbsnews.com).



(edited by Downtown Bookie on 3.10.08 0533)


http://www.americasupportsyou.mil


"Share your food with the hungry, and give shelter to the homeless. Give clothes to those who need them, and do not hide from relatives who need your help." - Isaiah 58:7 (New Living Translation)
Karlos the Jackal
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by whatever
    Not to mention Palin brought it up first:
    "You mentioned education and I'm glad you did. I know education you are passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, and god bless her. Her reward is in heaven, right?"
This is meant to refer to Biden's current wife, I think.

    Originally posted by CRZ
    Ultimately, nobody lost, which makes it a wash. Who you thought "won" probably determines how you've already made up your mind and are voting anyway.
Sure, but they're not really going after the people who have already made up their minds, they're going after the mysterious "undecideds," right? This CBS poll (cbsnews.com) of undecideds has them giving Biden the win 46%-21% (33% said it was a tie). Interesting (but I guess not surprising) that both of them fared a little worse than the other polls. The article also says that "about seven in 10 remain uncommitted."

Undecideds. I just don't get 'em.

--K



Last 5 movies seen: Forgetting Sarah Marshall *** - Leatherheads *** - Cult of the Cobra ** - Kabluey *** - Burn After Reading ****
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.90
I remember an episode of West Wing where President Bartlet was running for re-election and they were going to have one debate against the Republican candidate. CJ made a comment about the expectations were so low for the Republican candidate that unless he burned the podium, he was going to over exceed expectations. That is what I thought of Palin.

The expectations were so low for her that unless she said something really riddiculously like my running mate looks to dress up in women's underwear while we are alone, she was going to defy expectations. I thought Biden did a great job of showing himself as a person who may just be as down to earth as Palin. I did love how he destroyed the Maveick image by pointing out that in most major issues, he is a locked in stepped Republican. Palin didn't kill the election, but I do think the polls reflect that people are not comfortable with her being a heartbeat away from the Presidency. I do think that it was interesting choice for her to McCain's running mate and I thought at the time it might be the one thing that would stop Obama, but with all the mistakes and scandals around her in hindsight, it probably hurt McCain in states that he was compative.
DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 2 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
Palin did what she had to do, calm the base. For those who like her, the folksy bs was great. For those wanting to have her demonstrate some intellegence and readiness t be presiden, they were disappointed. The dumbest thing she did all night, was referece Cheney, which gave Biden a hanging curve he hit out of the park.

Biden did a good job of not going after her and staying on point and for him, being concise.

Was it just me or after the debate, while Biden was talking to Palin's family and at ease, did Palin just look lost?

Finally, Gwen really sucked. A D+ is generous in rating her performance. I have heard her do much better on The News Hour.

Overall, I agree with Zed, this was a wash.



Perception is reality
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 20 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.44
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    Finally, Gwen really sucked. A D+ is generous in rating her performance.


Which reminds me: I was more than slightly creeped out by her what-would-you-do-if-your-running-mate-croaked question. My girlfriend seems to think it was a good question that was perhaps phrased poorly. I think it was out of place at best and in extremely poor taste at worst.

People keep speculating that 72-year-old McCain is a sure-fire goner sometime in the next 4 years, and some of the more morbid speculators out there have Obama pegged as a sure-fire target for an assassination attempt or three. In that context, her question shocked me, but I guess I could be reading too much into it.

- StingArmy
dunkndollaz
Banger








Since: 3.1.02
From: Northern NJ

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#14 Posted on
    Originally posted by StingArmy
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      Finally, Gwen really sucked. A D+ is generous in rating her performance.


    Which reminds me: I was more than slightly creeped out by her what-would-you-do-if-your-running-mate-croaked question. My girlfriend seems to think it was a good question that was perhaps phrased poorly. I think it was out of place at best and in extremely poor taste at worst.

    People keep speculating that 72-year-old McCain is a sure-fire goner sometime in the next 4 years, and some of the more morbid speculators out there have Obama pegged as a sure-fire target for an assassination attempt or three. In that context, her question shocked me, but I guess I could be reading too much into it.

    - StingArmy


I was actually not surprised at all that Gewn asked that question since the prevailing thought is that McCain is going to choke on a prune in the first 30 days of office and croak. I will agree that it was in poor taste.



I'm Blind Jimmy Winthrop, Blues singer for the Rich.
MUTigermask
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Since: 8.10.03
From: Columbia MO

Since last post: 477 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.09
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco


    - This was a poorly moderated debate. A WWE ref probably could have done as good a job as Gwen Ifill who apparently took a ref bump early and never fully recovered.

    (edited by BigDaddyLoco on 2.10.08 2311)


Heh, that line had me rolling. Shame another moderator didn't come running down the aisle just a second too late.

I love how on the after debate analysis, Republicans(at least the ones I saw) were acting and if she knocked it out of the park in this debate. Yes, she was more poised than people thought. However, could she have answered the actual question a few times? She'd just change the subject and go on about something entirely off topic constantly. And usually I found to answer to be somewhat nonsensical. The main thing that bothered me was her folksy, I'm just an average joe act. I don't think that people will be fooled by that this year. In the Couric interview she said it made her unhappy that after the duck(quail)-hunting accident Cheney was made into a caricature. Well, seemed she made a caricature of herself up there. Two worst moments to me were the "I've only been at this, what, five weeks" line and when she tried to use Reagans old "There you go again" line... and royally fucked it up. It just didn't make sense when she said it. I wasn't completely impressed with Biden, either, but he was much better that Palin.



SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#16 Posted on
Draw. Palin came off like she knew what she was talking about, which like Obama's performance last week, gave her somewhat of a win.

But, I think Palin's "straight talk to the American people" moment was a really awkward blunder on her part, but Biden didn't effectively swat away her attacks. He should have, in his closing statement, pointed out that Palin seemed to be in a debate with herself, or think she was giving a speech, and that he didn't do that and stuck to his notes seemingly, I think he missed his chance to knock her down.

    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    The best thing about this election is the Democrats pissing in their hat. In 2000, people say it was fixed, in 2004, they ran that cocksucker Kerry, who drew 50 MILLION votes (ONLY TO LOSE BY 1 MILLION) - now, they get a silver platter handed to them them with a lame duck President, a bad war, a failed economy and a black JFK, running against a crazy old man with a semi-good looking pro-abortion God Freak WOMAN...and they will still lose
Democrats could certainly still blow it, it's been their MO for decades, but to date, it's the Republicans who are running as if they're the new Democrats.

From the controversial Palin pick (which does have its advantages), to getting beat up by The View, and then last week's "suspending his campaign" weirdness, McCain's made as many strategic blunders as Kerry and Gore did, whereas Obama's campaign has remained relatively on track.

Of course, there is still a month. There's still hope that maybe there will be some hat-pissing, but it hasn't happened yet.


(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 3.10.08 1213)
Teapot
Kishke








Since: 1.8.02
From: Louisville KY

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.89
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    But, I think Palin's "straight talk to the American people" moment was a really awkward blunder on her part, but Biden didn't effectively swat away her attacks. He should have, in his closing statement, pointed out that Palin seemed to be in a debate with herself, or think she was giving a speech, and that he didn't do that and stuck to his notes seemingly, I think he missed his chance to knock her down.


I believe the thinking was that if he attacked her directly, then he'd risk come across as a bully picking on the poor political neophyte.

I am a little annoyed with some comments Palin made today on Fox about her interview with Katie Couric, which help explain her inability to answer the damn questions.
    Originally posted by Sarah Palin
    It's like, man, no matter what you say, you are going to get clobbered. If you choose to answer a question, you are going to get clobbered on the answer. If you choose to try to pivot and go to another subject that you believe that Americans want to hear about, you get clobbered for that too.

So she doesn't like it when people actually have the temerity to actually expect her to actually answer the questions they ask? Quelle horreur! And I know that she wouldn't annoy me nearly as much if she was able to give cogent answers that I disagreed with, rather than giving loopy, stream-of-consciousness data dump answers that barely pertain to the topic at hand. (She couldn't have just said she reads USA Today or the Wall Street Journal? Hell, I would have even given her the local Wasilla paper!)



DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
With a couple of exception, Palin didn't answer anything. She was given a handful of talking points and folksy phrases and used them. About thirty minutes in I was thinking to myself, the next question she answers will be the first one. I realize that's what pols do but she was avoiding softballs.

And if Gwen had really done her job, I think Palin would have been toast. She tried so hard to make sure she didn't look biased that we really got nothing.



Perception is reality
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    And if Gwen had really done her job, I think Palin would have been toast. She tried so hard to make sure she didn't look biased that we really got nothing.


I'm not sure it was Gwen's fault, given the rigid structure of the debate that (surprise surprise) the GOP insisted upon. If more face-to-face debate had taken place like in the presidential debate, both Gwen and Biden could've been more forceful and called Palin on her bullshit.

Roger Ebert said it best --- Palin tried to come off like Marge Gunderson, a folksy manner and a sharp wit, but instead came off like Jerry Lundegaard, whose folksy manner came off as desperately trying to hide something.



How is it that I am a good actor? What I do is I... pretend to be the person Im portraying. Youre confused. Case in point: in Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson comes to me and says I would like you to be Gandalf the Wizard, and I said You are aware that I am not really a wizard? and Peter Jackson said I would like you to use your acting skills to portray a wizard for the duration of the show. So I said Okay and then I said to myself Mmm.. How do I do that? And this is what I did: I imagined that I was a wizard, and then I pretended, and acted, in that way on the stage. How did I know what to say? The words were written down for me in a script. How did I know where to stand? People told me where to stand." -- Sir Ian McKellen, Extras
Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 523 days
Last activity: 15 days
#20 Posted on
    Originally posted by Downtown Bookie
      Originally posted by CRZ
      Who you thought "won" probably determines how you've already made up your mind and are voting anyway.
      Originally posted by CNN
      The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. said 51 percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job, while 36 percent thought Palin did the best job....The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.
      Originally posted by CBS
      Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama leads GOP rival John McCain 49 percent to 40 percent among registered voters in a new CBS News poll.....The error due to sampling for results based on the entire sample could be plus or minus three percentage points
    51% - 49% = 2%; 40% - 36% = 4%; in other words, within the margin of error, the national polls show that the winner of the VP Debate in your eyes is the candidate you were planning on voting for anyway. Spot on CRZ.

    The CNN poll numbers can be found here (cnn.com) while the CBS poll is located here (cbsnews.com).



(edited by Downtown Bookie on 3.10.08 0533)


No - both the national polls show Biden the winner - by 15% in the CNN poll and 9% in the CBS poll. I have no idea what you were going for in comparing Biden's and Palin's numbers across polls, and then stating that they were within the margin of error.

Steph



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