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The W - Basketball - Vehemently Agree
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Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#1 Posted on
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/webb/020612.html



I love it when a plan comes together
Promote this thread!
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Wow, that's some pretty harsh stuff. He makes some good points, but comes off as really bitter in the process.



No team in the NBA can beat my Los Angeles Lakers in a best of 7 series. I know it hurts, and I'm sorry.
Please Believe It.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 41 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
He does a great job of putting into words what I have thought about Shaq for years.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
LennyAaronRoxx
Cotechino








Since: 26.1.02
From: Bradenton, Florida

Since last post: 439 days
Last activity: 171 days
#4 Posted on
That was the best article I've ever read. I can't stand Shaq

(edited by LennyAaronRoxx on 12.6.02 1432)


Whassupwitdat?
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
YAY~!

It's the return of the LAKER HATERS!!!

*Reserves front row seat for optimum viewing of Weekly Laker-Hater Parade*



No team in the NBA can beat my Los Angeles Lakers in a best of 7 series. I know it hurts, and I'm sorry.
Please Believe It.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 41 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
You can justify disregarding it by calling people "Laker haters" if you want, but I would rather call it "fans of good basketball." Can you counter any of the things in this column?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 12.6.02 2111)


Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 14 hours
AIM:  
#7 Posted on
These are the same arguments that we have in our house about Shaq... Lise has said pretty much all of this before, and I've agreed with her.

The lack of calls on Shaq really gets me.



I love it when a plan comes together
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 303 days
Last activity: 297 days
#8 Posted on
Aw...Shaq TRAVELS! Oh my GOD! Stop the presses. NO ONE ELSE in the league takes an extra step. Not a single damn one.

Oh my, Shaq USES HIS SIZE TO HIS ADVANTAGE! The world must stop turning NOW! All freaks must leave the league so we can get back to the 6-5 and under ball. Oh, wait, that's the WNBA.

And, shock of shocks, Shaq isn't a very good free throw shooter! Wilt Chamberlain, that foul line specialist, must be spinning in his grave. How DARE Shaq not make a Barry-esque rate of free throws.

You want a center who can pass? Let's see, what's Vlade doing right now? He's available!

Give me a freaking break. Hate the guy all you want, but he's the dominating player in what is a ridiculously officiated game to begin with. The fact that someone would actually suggest CHANGING THE RULES BECAUSE OF HIM opnly makes him that much greater of a player.

Good basketball? Hall of Fame basketball. Ask any coach in the league if he'd like to have Shaq....





***Outrighted to Jersey City (IL) April 15, 2002***

TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 41 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
Just because he's dominant doesn't mean he's talented. Read the column.

I don't hold Shaq using his size to his advantage against him, but I don't enjoy watching it. And nobody gets away with violations like Shaq does. Nobody travels as consistently or as obviously as Shaq. Taking an extra step after picking up a dribble in going in for a layup I can tolerate. Stepping, then dribbling, then picking up the dribble to step again then shoot I can't.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 303 days
Last activity: 297 days
#10 Posted on
Watch a Michael Jordan tape...real closely. He rarely took a drive that wasn't technically travelling.

Of course he is talented. If he weren't talented he would be ineffective..I mean this isn't Paul Wight in there.



***Outrighted to Jersey City (IL) April 15, 2002***

pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

Since last post: 1 hour
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Y!:
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21

    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    YAY~!

    It's the return of the LAKER HATERS!!!

    *Reserves front row seat for optimum viewing of Weekly Laker-Hater Parade*



I refuse to get suckered into the Laker hating this week, since the Nets suck.

And I am not pleased to believe it.



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 41 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    Watch a Michael Jordan tape...real closely. He rarely took a drive that wasn't technically travelling.

    Of course he is talented. If he weren't talented he would be ineffective..I mean this isn't Paul Wight in there.



Did you read the column? A 24 year old man would be effective against 8 year olds on a 9 foot rim. Is that man talented? Dominant and talented do not go hand in hand. Shaq is the most dominant player in the league, but he is no where near the most talented. I wouldn't even put him in the top half. See, anyone can overpower a guy they outweigh by 50 or more pounds like Shaq does against the rest of the NBA. It takes real skill from guys like McGrady, Bryant, Kidd etc. to beat those guys who rely on their size.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 303 days
Last activity: 297 days
#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Did you read the column? A 24 year old man would be effective against 8 year olds on a 9 foot rim. Is that man talented? Dominant and talented do not go hand in hand. Shaq is the most dominant player in the league, but he is no where near the most talented. I wouldn't even put him in the top half. See, anyone can overpower a guy they outweigh by 50 or more pounds like Shaq does against the rest of the NBA. It takes real skill from guys like McGrady, Bryant, Kidd etc. to beat those guys who rely on their size.


YES, I did read the column. And NO, he isn't the MOST talented. But his IS talented. He is asked to do certain things, and he gets the job done. For the writer to get on his case for his lack of 3-point shooting or lack of spin move is moot. He doesn't HAVE to do that.

It's like dissing Roger Clemens because he doesn't steal bases. It's not his job.

As I said, one can hate him all one wants. But to complain that he's given special treatment other megastars weren't/aren't given....well it's just not true. The NBA has always given their biggest draws extra leeway whether its one step, a shoulder, a shove, whatever. He is the perfect machine for a ridiculous game.



***Outrighted to Jersey City (IL) April 15, 2002***

mskj
Summer sausage








Since: 10.1.02
From: Tennessee

Since last post: 937 days
Last activity: 696 days
#14 Posted on
Brett Favre sucks. Because everyone knows if he was 6'3", 240 he would suck as a running back. I mean have you ever seen a good running back who:

Is too slow to run away from any linebacker in the league?

Has 12 rushing td's in 161 games?

Averaged 1.5 yds per carry last year?

Regularly slides instead of taking hits?

Has gone forward for 1559 yds during his nfl life, while going backwards for 2073(sack yds)?

Has fumbled the ball more than he's gotten into the end zone?

Brett Favre sucks. We need more people who would be good running backs playing QB in the NFL. But I'll give this to ya Brett. You'd be really good at those halfback options.

This article is junk.

TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 41 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
See, EVERY position on a football team only requires one dimensional talent. Running backs don't have to throw, d-linemen don't run pass routes, linebackers don't kick field goals, and so on. Playing basketball should require a much more versatile game.

Also, Favre has reached the success he has by his own talents, not because he was lucky enough to be born bigger than anyone else he plays against.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 13.6.02 0128)


Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 3 days
#16 Posted on
This article is just utter nonesense.

Have any of you ever played basketball with a large indvidual? Yes, there is a huge advantage... but part of a team is knowing how to use that advantage... it does not just simply work on ots own.

And I am sorry, but you do not change the rules for just one man because you don't like the way he plays. He wasn't winning championships down in Orlando, and the Lakers SHOULD have lost to Sacramento. He is not the whole bloody team.

This article is just sour grapes.

Man, I have noticed a hell of a lot of whining in these forums lately - is there something in the air?



"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees
Jay Bower
Cotechino








Since: 28.2.02

Since last post: 3854 days
Last activity: 3844 days
#17 Posted on
Oh come on now, the fact that a column this nonsensically slanderous being printed on such a normally refutable site is pretty sad. If people don't like Shaq than fine, but writing an 800 word column bashing Shaq on his SIZE? Telling him that he could never play like a point guard is like telling the Big Show that he could never work like Rey Mysterio and expecting people to take it seriously. Shaq is HUGE and at his size there is only so fast he can move and Laker haters should be glad that he doesn't move like a 98 Tim Hardaway because if he did one drive to the lane would probably injure multiple members of the defense at once.

Shaq is talented and can do things that other people in the league with the same height advantage can't. Again, he is too big to be expected to cross over the other teams 2 guard. He does everything that your classic center is expected to do and anyone who criticizes what he doesn't do is just nitpicking because of a personal bias against him. Shaq can run the floor (and is damn funny when he does), block shots, shoot the one hander, go glass better than any center in the league and is the best passing center in the league in my opinion.

The Lakers just won a championship with a roster of less Ron Harpers and more Devean Georges. They are the best team in the league and people can either bitch about it or support their local teams until someone comes along that is better than LA. Isn't that what sports are about? No excuses, no splitting up teams because they are "too good", just being the best. Look at Shaq in Orlando and look at Shaq now. He is nailing his free throws (as Bill Walton will remind us), his inside game is much better than it used to be, his range is better and he is more mature as a player. The guy works his ass off to excell at what he does and he has yet to stop improving his game, yet all people do is cut him down because of a factor (his size) that he has no control over. He also sticks out because the days of several dominant centers is over for now. Patrick Ewing is dead in the water as is Hakeem Olaj and even decent centers like the old Chicago Triple Head are fading. Shaq is what a center was meant to be and sticks out like a sore thumb with the spot thinning in the league.

Shaq and the Lakers aren't going to "give back the league" to anyone as the article states, the job of the other 27(?)teams in the league is to TAKE the league back and that is the only sportsmanlike way things should be done, people are just getting pissy all of the sudden because the east is so shallow that the series was dull as hell and came off looking like HHH/Jericho having to follow Rock/Hogan at WMX8.

(edited by Jay Bower on 13.6.02 0112)


Jay Bower
TheSmarks.com/A1wrestling.com
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 303 days
Last activity: 297 days
#18 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Playing basketball should require a much more versatile game.



On this we agree. This is why I dislike the NBA for the most part. The fact is, it doesn't require that, else we would see entire teams of cookie-cutter swingmen...



***Outrighted to Jersey City (IL) April 15, 2002***

TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 41 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by Leroy
    And I am sorry, but you do not change the rules for just one man because you don't like the way he plays.


Actually, this has happened all the time in sports history. The 3 second violation was put into effect because bnig centers used to just camp out in the paint and stop any driving. The 24 second shot clock was to stop players from freezing the ball when they got a lead. In baseball, the pitcher's mound is at it current height and distance to combat eras where pitching has absolutely dominated hitting. Changing the rules to make the game fair, or at least more competitive, is nothing new.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
haz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 5 days
#20 Posted on
The best thing I can do after reading that drivel is just laugh... As was stated before, I can not believe that a reputable Sports Web Site would allow that crap to be printed!

I would agree that Shaq is not the most skilled player in the league, but he is the most dominant!!! And it certainly is not because of any bias from the league and officials.

How many 7 footers are there in the league? Lots...
How many of these have remarkable talent? IMO 1...

Shaqs talent is unquestionable. When you are 7 feet tall and weigh 335 lbs, you should not be able to do the things he does. His co-ordination is fantastic, he runs the floor (get out of the way of that Diesel) and he can shoot the ball from 15 ft in... What else do you want???

Just look at the guys who tried to cover him for the last 4 games. Todd MacCulloch is a 7 ft almost 300 lb center, who has nowhere near the skills as Shaq.

The Lakers play their game around him and why wouldn't you.

As for making the game boring, not on your life. I consider myself a basketball purist, and part of the beauty of good basketball is playing a team game, passing the ball in, out, in, out, around the horn...

I just HATE watching Orlando play Philly because all I see is McGrady goes 1 on 1, misses, now the other way, Iverson throws up a three with 20 seconds left on the clock, now the other way, McGrady tries to drive 1 on 1...

Now don't get me wrong, I like a good fast break, and a little pick and roll, but that helter-skelter game is what I would expect to see in a playground, not in the NCAA or NBA!!! Players who are truly great, adapt their game to the TEAM and don't expect the team to adapt to them, that is how great players win championships. Get down the floor, set up the offence, move the ball, get a decent shot when your rebounders are there...

Watching last night, there were so many times the Lakers did this, thats why they are champions. Plus Shaq is the most dominant man in the game, bar none!!!

(edited by haz on 13.6.02 0908)


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