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The W - Current Events & Politics - US wants UN help in Iraq
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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
Click Here (story.news.yahoo.com)

Would it be poetic justice at this point for the UN to hold up their hands and say "It's your mess, you clean it up?"



"When this bogus term alternative rock was being thrown at every '70s retro rehash folk group, we were challenging people to new sonic ideas. If some little snotty anarchist with an Apple Mac and an attitude thinks he invented dance music and the big rock group is coming into his territory, [that's] ridiculous." - Bono, 1997
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CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Click Here (story.news.yahoo.com)

    Would it be poetic justice at this point for the UN to hold up their hands and say "It's your mess, you clean it up?"
If by "poetic justice," you mean "a really bad idea," then sure.



CRZ
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3785 days
Last activity: 3727 days
#3 Posted on
Yes, it's a bad idea, and probably will not happen, but it is very funny to see our governments crawling back asking for help from the 'worthless' UN.



...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1180 days
Last activity: 977 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
It is an asinine idea to ask the UN for help. God knows they'll just screw it up worse than it already is.



"If this cruel, loudmouth extremist is the cream of the Democratic crop, next November's going to make the 1984 election look like a squeaker."
--House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) on Howard Dean
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3785 days
Last activity: 3727 days
#5 Posted on
Please, Grimis, explain how an organsiation with experience of peace-keeping in volatile situations is going to make a worse mess than the half-assed plans of a cowboy and his lap-dog from the other side of the Atlantic? If Powell, Dick and Dubya are warming up the humble pie asking for assistance, surely you must realise that the US/UK forces need UN help.



...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1180 days
Last activity: 977 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
The last thing we need is UN help. Name one, just one, UN peacekeeping mission that worked.



"If this cruel, loudmouth extremist is the cream of the Democratic crop, next November's going to make the 1984 election look like a squeaker."
--House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) on Howard Dean
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3785 days
Last activity: 3727 days
#7 Posted on
Ah, Google, my old friend...

El Salvador: Ending Civil War & Holding Free and Fair Elections 1991 - April 1995
Accomplishments: Successfully implemented peace accord, ending 12 years of bloody civil war. Disarmed combatants and created conditions for free and fair elections. Monitored human rights abuses while dismantling existing security forces and beginning creation of a civilian police force. Provided buffer, police and humanitarian observer force to implement peace accord and monitor elections. Helped maintain public order pending the creation of a national civilian police.

Cambodia: Assisting the Rebirth of a Nation 1992 - 1993
Accomplishments: Conducted peaceful, free and fair elections. Helped establish new constitution and government. Investigated ceasefire violations and illegal return of forces. Destroyed weapons caches and demined major roads. Monitored human rights violations while providing human rights training for military police and judicial personnel. Achieved limited disarmament. Provided humanitarian relief, and helped repatriate 370,000 Cambodian refugees.

Mozambique: Shifting from bullets to ballots 1992 - January 1995
Accomplishments: Organized free and fair elections. Monitored withdrawal of Zimbabwean and Malawian troops and conducted investigations of ceasefire violations. Demobilized over 80,000 troops and secured transportation corridors. Facilitated the return of 1.5 million refugees. Delivered humanitarian aid and provided technical assistance. Monitored and verified ceasefire, demobilized forces, and destroyed weapons. Provided security to transportation corridors. Coordinated and monitored humanitarian assistance, provided technical assistance, and monitored elections.

Namibia: Creating a Free Country 1989 - 1990
Accomplishments: Achieved ceasefire and peaceful withdrawal of South African troops. Held free and fair elections, demobilized South African forces, and won release of prisoners. Helped repeal repressive legislation and create a new and independent government in Namibia.

Afghanistan & Pakistan: Monitoring Troop Withdrawals 1988 - 1990
Accomplishments: U.N. Secretary General's good offices led to negotiation of the Geneva Accords. Soviet withdrawal successfully completed with U.N. monitoring. Outposts established to assure withdrawal. Violations of Geneva Accords investigated to extent possible, some refugees returned.

Golan Heights: Maintaining the Peace 1974 - present
Accomplishments: Patrolled bases along ceasefire line. Established check-points and observation posts along the boundary of separation. Disengaged troops and established 24-hour observation patrols. Carried out inspections of arms and force levels. Arranged for transfer of prisoners and war dead and offered humanitarian assistance.

Suez Canal, Sinai: Silencing Weapons and Keeping the Peace 1973 - 1979
Accomplishments: Achieved ceasefire and facilitated separation and withdrawal of troops. Monitored borders and carried out inspections through checkpoints along buffer zone. Provided communication, delivered humanitarian aid, and helped exchange prisoners. Maintained ceasefire during operation.

West New Guinea: Assuring Peaceful Transfer of Power 1962 - 1963
Accomplishments: Successfully implemented all provisions for the peaceful transfer of power in West New Guinea. Assured peaceful negotiations between the Netherlands and Indonesia throughout transition process. Maintained order and improved economic, health and education services in West New Guinea.

India & Pakistan: Monitoring breaches to the peace 1965 - 1966
Accomplishments: Monitored ceasefire. Eased tensions and prevented military escalation along ceasefire line in Kashmir. In 1965-1966, monitored breaches in the ceasefire that helped facilitate the Tashkent Agreements which led to complete withdrawal of Indian and Pakistani troops in 1966.

Will this do?



...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1180 days
Last activity: 977 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
El Salvador: free elections? HA!

Cambodia: Civil War continues to this day between the government and the remnants of the Khmer Rouge.

Mozambique: Millions are starving. Crime is rampant. Not as bad as Zimbabwe, but still.

Namibia: OK

Afghanistan/Pakistan: Good thing the UN was there to stop those Geneva Violations huh?

Golan Heights & Suez: Well, god knows there have been decades of peace in Palestine between the friendly Israelis, Palestinians, and Syrians.

West New Guinea: Indonesia is one of the nations where terrorism is most active.

India and Pakistan: Are STILL fighting in skirmishes. Have been steamrolling towards nuclear war twice.


That's not exactly what I'd call a track record. Besides, regurgitating the UN party line isn't exactly objective.



"If this cruel, loudmouth extremist is the cream of the Democratic crop, next November's going to make the 1984 election look like a squeaker."
--House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) on Howard Dean
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3785 days
Last activity: 3727 days
#9 Posted on
But I got the one you asked for, correct?



...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#10 Posted on
    Originally posted by A-MOL
    Yes, it's a bad idea, and probably will not happen, but it is very funny to see our governments crawling back asking for help from the 'worthless' UN.


    Originally posted by Yahoo! article
    The administration has been under pressure from European and other governments, as well as from members of Congress, to share responsibility on Iraq.

    On Capitol Hill, Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, the senior Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee (news - web sites), said, "We should be willing to agree to a reasonable sharing of decision-making with respect to the physical and political reconstruction of Iraq."


Gee, I'm confused. Which is it - is the Bush administration a bunch of pansies for "crawling back" to the U.N. or is it a bunch of bullies for not "sharing responsiblity on Iraq" until now? Or both?

Perhaps they are just giving the U.N. the significant role they desired in rebuilding Iraq. (Not that I'm saying it's a good idea.)

Sheesh, give me enough time and double-speak and I can directly link Bush to the blackout of a few weeks ago. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if someone already beat me to it....




(edited by Reverend J Shaft on 4.9.03 1025)
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#11 Posted on
You know what goes great with crow? A side order of freedom fries.

(Oh, and maybe not Bush persay, but the Republicans in Congress, led by that cruel, loudmouth extremist Tom DeLay, did recently shoot down a measure to modernize the power grid.)



ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 83 days
Last activity: 5 days
#12 Posted on
So asking the UN for help is a bad idea, why? Because Iraq will stay screwed up? Excuse me if I can't manage to shed a tear over that one.

My view is that I hold out little hope of a true democracy in Iraq anytime soon. I think if they had honest elections today in Iraq, the people would put in a Muslim Theocracy. And because our government doesn't want that, we choose to stay to help boost a weak phoney puppet government. Thus we must spend big money, and risk lives for not much purpose. At least if we cut the UN in on the deal, they would have to assume some of the cost and some of the risk. Do I think the UN will accomplish some great deed while there? No, but I really could care less. Besides, a screwed-up Iraq is probably not a threat to our national security.



Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3785 days
Last activity: 3727 days
#13 Posted on
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Click Here (story.news.yahoo.com)

    Would it be poetic justice at this point for the UN to hold up their hands and say "It's your mess, you clean it up?"


Click Here (news.bbc.co.uk) France and Germany reject US Iraq plans

(Quick tech question: what tags are needed to put your own text over the link instead of 'Click Here'. I'm not too well up on the lingo)




...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by A-MOL
    (Quick tech question: what tags are needed to put your own text over the link instead of 'Click Here'. I'm not too well up on the lingo)

Put the text inside your "link" tag like [link This - Blah blah blah]http://whatever[/link]

(edited by CRZ on 4.9.03 0923)

CRZ
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3785 days
Last activity: 3727 days
#15 Posted on
Cheers, Oh Glorious Leader.





...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
-proletarian-
Chipolata








Since: 29.4.03

Since last post: 3967 days
Last activity: 3966 days
#16 Posted on
First off, I have to give credence to the admin's argument that 3 months isn't long enough to rebuild a country that was shattered before they moved in. That's fair. We knew that Iraq wasn't going to transform into a prosperous, stable democracy overnight, and things are progressing at a slow but steady pace.

They fucked up in dissolving the 250,000 strong army, those men could have been put to good use. Give them some nice spiffy new uni's, a few weeks of human-rights training, and you could have an army for a new Iraqi republic right there, instead of starting from scratch, which is what they're trying to do now. Those men could have been deployed around the country, under the close watch of the coalition, weeks ago had they done that, and we could already be scaling down our prescence there had they took that route.

However, I can't hold it against France and Germany for balking now that Bush wants their help. The adminsitration basically berated them in public for not going along in the first place, and now they expect them to forget and put themselves under U.S. command in the theater, with little or no authority of their own (under U.N. auspices)? That's a little unrealistic.

I think it's telling how they planned for 5 months how to win the war, but only took a few weeks to plan for the aftermath. It shows how little thought they put into the occupation, and I can understand other countries' foot dragging when it comes to the U.S. asking them to place themselves in the same mess the Americans are currently bogged down in.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1180 days
Last activity: 977 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Incidentally, the UN is working wonders in Zimbabwe

* * * *
Zimbabwe closes UN food offices
United Nations officials in Zimbabwe say they have been forced to close several offices monitoring the distribution of food aid.

They say the government in Harare asked the United Nations Development Agency (UNDP) to shut three newly-established field offices in rural areas.

But UN workers say the delivery of relief supplies is unaffected and monitoring has continued.

There has been no comment from the Zimbabwean Government - it has previously denied allegations of interfering in the distribution of emergency relief.

Zimbabwe's Government had earlier issued a directive for international food aid to be handed over to local authorities for distribution.

Until now, the major foreign food donors have been distributing foreign food aid themselves - there have been concerns that President Robert Mugabe's government has politicised the food assistance that it controls.

Disastrous

There have been allegations by many Zimbabweans that the food assistance controlled by the state has been manipulated so that supporters of President Mugabe are given easier access to the food than his political opponents.

Zimbabwe's Government has strongly denied the allegations.

The food shortage in the country is getting worse.

Some 3.8 million Zimbabweans need food aid to survive; by the end of the year, it is predicted that that number will rise to 5.5 million.

The UN predicts that more than five million Zimbabweans, about a third of the population, will need food aid this year because of a combination of bad weather, economic mismanagement and the government's land redistribution policy.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/business/3083698.stm

* * * *

Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit has an interesting take:
I have absolutely no confidence in the U.N., which can be counted on to either make things worse, or to cut and run when things get bad. As for the Marines -- I've gotten quite a few emails saying that the Marines' rather different philosophy (bristle with guns, and shoot back massively whenever attacked) has resulted in much better performance, while the Army's "non-provocative" approach has been much less successful.<

(edited by Grimis on 5.9.03 1251)


"If this cruel, loudmouth extremist is the cream of the Democratic crop, next November's going to make the 1984 election look like a squeaker."
--House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) on Howard Dean
socalgail
Weisswurst








Since: 4.8.03
From: San Diego

Since last post: 3971 days
Last activity: 3815 days
#18 Posted on
And how about the bang up job the UN did with sanctions in Iraq? Afterall, it destroyed the economy of the country, not to mention that of neighboring countries like Turkey, left 60% of Iraqis on the dole, and allowed the impoverished Shiites to have, on average, 12 children per woman. On the positive side, they did clear out the WMD so we had an easier time during our initial invasion. And that is nothing compared to the way they have managed bring about peace between the Israelis and Palestinians. Afterall, who is feeding and sheltering the Palestinian population, whose birth rate is the highest in the world? The UN silly. It is hilarious that one of the complaints of the Palestinians is that the wall Israel is building will keep them out of jobs in Israel!!!!! Why aren't there any Palestinian jobs-just ask the UN, doler out of the largesse of the free world.



socalgail
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3785 days
Last activity: 3727 days
#19 Posted on
This is all fine but IT IS OUR LEADERS, BUSH, RUMSFELD AND BLAIR, WHO ARE ASKING FOR HELP FROM THE UN! No-one is sayin 'Jeez, send in the UN and Iraq will be a utopia'. But no-one, including the US and British government seems to have any other idea, apart from throwing more troops into a conflict which is decreasing their approval rating as the bodies of soldiers build up and the reasoning behind the war is called into question. Slag off the UN, fine, but accept that a cock-up has been made if Dubya and Tony are asking for assistance.

(edited by A-MOL on 8.9.03 1639)


...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
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