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The W - Current Events & Politics - US Military Abuse of Prisoners Continues (Page 2)
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PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 3926 days
Last activity: 3769 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Leroy
      Originally posted by PalpatineW
      My only real point here is the one I made in my first post, which is: Leroy has equated the US with its enemies.

      :)


    If you mean that we are capable of doing the same types "evils" as our "enemies", then yes - and I think it's absurd to think otherwise. Do I hope we would behave better? Absolutely - but I'm not surprised when we fail to live up to those standards.

    This isn't an "American is the big evil" view as Grimis and you interpreted. This is acknowledging the lowest of human nature during a war - something that's entirely predictable and occurs in every war ever fought.

    What I get so pissed off about is that people assume that some of us won't behave this way... that we are somehow "above" this kind of behavior. I would love it if that were true - but its not, as evidenced by recent events.


Right. But just because our "troops" did some "reprehensible things," that doesn't mean that we, as in, our nation, our people, our entire culture, are as bad as the culture that our "enemies" belong to, i.e. the one that endorses beheadings, blowing people up, etc. The point is that our behavior is an aberration; theirs is par for the course.

Because I love bad analogies, heres one: If Barry Bonds strikes out once, he's not considered a baseball player on par with Jose Hernandez, who strikes out 200+ times per season.



In Theo We Trust
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 259 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
      Originally posted by Leroy
        Originally posted by PalpatineW
        My only real point here is the one I made in my first post, which is: Leroy has equated the US with its enemies.

        :)


      If you mean that we are capable of doing the same types "evils" as our "enemies", then yes - and I think it's absurd to think otherwise. Do I hope we would behave better? Absolutely - but I'm not surprised when we fail to live up to those standards.

      This isn't an "American is the big evil" view as Grimis and you interpreted. This is acknowledging the lowest of human nature during a war - something that's entirely predictable and occurs in every war ever fought.

      What I get so pissed off about is that people assume that some of us won't behave this way... that we are somehow "above" this kind of behavior. I would love it if that were true - but its not, as evidenced by recent events.


    Right. But just because our "troops" did some "reprehensible things," that doesn't mean that we, as in, our nation, our people, our entire culture, are as bad as the culture that our "enemies" belong to, i.e. the one that endorses beheadings, blowing people up, etc. The point is that our behavior is an aberration; theirs is par for the course.

    Because I love bad analogies, heres one: If Barry Bonds strikes out once, he's not considered a baseball player on par with Jose Hernandez, who strikes out 200+ times per season.


I agree. We hold ourselves to a higher standard of behavior. I personally don't equate this with "superiority" but an active desire to be as good as we can be as a nation.

The only question I have, and it probably seems naive. who are the enemies you refer to? I am not trying to be smart or sarcastic but part of the problem still is defining our enemies. The actual terrorists are few in number yet we have spent over 100 billion to try and defeat them. In this attempt, I fear we are creating more terrorists. I am not saying we shouldn't try to eliminate the threat but wonder how we should best proceed to achieve the goal. This scandal only seems to have helped us take more steps to the rear.



Perception is reality
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 588 days
Last activity: 128 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Right. But just because our "troops" did some "reprehensible things," that doesn't mean that we, as in, our nation, our people, our entire culture, are as bad as the culture that our "enemies" belong to, i.e. the one that endorses beheadings, blowing people up, etc. The point is that our behavior is an aberration; theirs is par for the course.

    Because I love bad analogies, heres one: If Barry Bonds strikes out once, he's not considered a baseball player on par with Jose Hernandez, who strikes out 200+ times per season.


That's all well and good, but unfortunately, the only thing the rest of the world thinks of now when they hear about "U.S. Soldiers", are groups of people who torture and torment helpless captives.

Like it or not, and regardless of how accurate/inaccurate that statement may be, the truth is that nobody really cares about the good soldiers, because now all they're thinking about IS that they're all the same.

Of course your first statement about "out entire culture, are as bad as the culture that our "enemies" belong to" is dead on, but you try telling that to a culture full of people who now look at the US as the devil... well, now more-so anyways. Unofrtuantely, the fact that what you said is "true" doesn't mean shit in the real world, because it all comes down to perception. These people have seen enough to hate the US for another generation. As far as they're concerned, it may as well be EVERY U.S. citizen torturing them.


Tribal Prophet



oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 3083 days
Last activity: 3017 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.43
"out entire culture, are as bad as the culture that our "enemies" belong to"

Just be careful of your use of the word culture there. The Islamic culture that exists in the Middle East does not as a whole endorse people blowing themselves up as a weapon, just like the US culture does not endorse torturing prisoners for no good reason. Terrorism is not a culture-it's an organisation. That's like saying that Christian extremism is the culture that defines US Christianity.

Other than that, I agree with you. We are better than our enemies-that's what makes it so sickening to see a portion of our representatives over there making what we stand for seem like a joke.



Once upon a time in China, some believe, around the year one double-ought three, head priest of the White Lotus Clan, Pai Mei was walking down the road, contemplating whatever it is that a man of Pai Mei's infinite power contemplates - which is another way of saying "who knows" - when a Shaolin monk appeared, traveling in the opposite direction. As the monk and the priest crossed paths, Pai Mei, in a practically unfathomable display of generosity, gave the monk the slightest of nods. The nod was not returned. Now was it the intention of the Shaolin monk to insult Pai Mei or did he just fail to see the generous social gesture? The motives of the monk remain unknown. What is known, are the consequences. The next morning Pai Mei appeared at the Shaolin Temple and demanded of the Temple's head abbot that he offer Pai Mei his neck to repay the insult. The Abbot at first tried to console Pai Mei, only to find Pai Mei was inconsolable. So began the massacre of the Shaolin Temple and all 60 of the monks inside at the fists of the White Lotus. And so began the legend of Pai Mei's five point palm exploding heart technique.
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This is from "The Oregonian" a palpable chill ran down my spine when I read about the Gestapo-style arrest of U.S. citizen Maher "Mike" Hawash.
- IsaacYankem, That wacky Patriot Act.. (2003)
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