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The W - Pro Wrestling - Ultimo Fuss
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gkc
Loukanika








Since: 18.9.02
From: Longview, TX

Since last post: 3661 days
Last activity: 3659 days
#1 Posted on
My memory is fairly decent, and I am trying to remember why anyone would care that the Ultimo Dragon is in the WWE. It's been 5-6 years since his WCW run, and here is what I remember when I hear "Ultimo Dragon".

1. One of the dumbest moves ever when he ran to the corner, did a headstand on the top turnbuckle, and then waited and waited until the even dumber opponent would run up to him, and then he'd slap a hurracanrana (sp?) on him. All the opponent had to do was wait for the blood running to his head made him dizzy and fall off the turnbuckle.

2. No matter how hard Mike Tenay tried to put him over with the ten title thing no one in the audience cared about him except for....

3. The awesome kick combo.

That's it, and I'm wondering why the WWE thinks he's going to increase business unless he's learned English in the past few years. As a wrestling fan a Tajiri-Ultimo series would be fun as a battle of the stiff kickers, but basically he's going to be an early card guy.



gkc
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shinstrife
Boudin rouge








Since: 5.10.02

Since last post: 69 days
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#2 Posted on
Because he's one of the few great Japanese workers who...

Can speak some damn good english.

Can work a style rivaling both Benoit and Rey Mysterio Jr.

Is a J-Cup Champion(which in reality is a great honor for a wrestler to have. Benoit's a J-Cup champ)

Lastly he has many, many moves to his name. Asai Moonsault, Dragon Sleeper, so on, so forth. The man is just a wrestling genius, one of THE best ever, and he's shown interest in working in the WWE because he likes american wrestling oddly, so WWE decides to give the big international star a shot.

I hope he does just as good as Rey Rey is doing...i'm anxious to see the Ultimo vs Angle match








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XPacArmy
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Since: 13.5.03
From: Woodbridge, VA

Since last post: 288 days
Last activity: 285 days
#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by gkc
    My memory is fairly decent, and I am trying to remember why anyone would care that the Ultimo Dragon is in the WWE. It's been 5-6 years since his WCW run, and here is what I remember when I hear "Ultimo Dragon".

    1. One of the dumbest moves ever when he ran to the corner, did a headstand on the top turnbuckle, and then waited and waited until the even dumber opponent would run up to him, and then he'd slap a hurracanrana (sp?) on him. All the opponent had to do was wait for the blood running to his head made him dizzy and fall off the turnbuckle.

    2. No matter how hard Mike Tenay tried to put him over with the ten title thing no one in the audience cared about him except for....

    3. The awesome kick combo.

    That's it, and I'm wondering why the WWE thinks he's going to increase business unless he's learned English in the past few years. As a wrestling fan a Tajiri-Ultimo series would be fun as a battle of the stiff kickers, but basically he's going to be an early card guy.



People might care cause he is a great wrestler. He is great in the ring and I never really heard a bad thing said about him.

And about the handstand on turnbuckle thing, its really no different than HBK doing the super kick. He stomps and makes noise so the guy can be ready for the kick. Dragon handstands on the turnbuckle, which might be dangerous in its own right, and the other guy gets ready to take the hurracanrana.




On this day, June 24, I would like to wish my other sister Happy Birthday!!
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
#4 Posted on
I'm just hoping against all hope that he impresses enough to be eventually included in the booking committee. (A smark can dream...) Having seen a few shows from his Toryumon promotion, I am absolutely in love with the brilliant blending of Puro, Lucha, and wacky American Sportz Entertainment styles.

I mean, I don't expect him to re-invent WWE or anything. But, it would be nice if we could see his influence on match plotting.



fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3198 days
Last activity: 3198 days
#5 Posted on
Go back and watch matches from WCW during Ultimo's runs as Cruiserweight and especially World Television Champion. The man was OVER, way over beyond what he should have been considering WCW's "just throw them out there" Cruiserweight booking.

Don't underestimate the value of having a good/great undercard. It sure made WCW fans a lot more forgiving when they got bad Main Events.

Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

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#6 Posted on

    Originally posted by shinstrife
    Because he's one of the few great Japanese workers who...

    Can speak some damn good english.

    Can work a style rivaling both Benoit and Rey Mysterio Jr.

    Is a J-Cup Champion(which in reality is a great honor for a wrestler to have. Benoit's a J-Cup champ)

    Lastly he has many, many moves to his name. Asai Moonsault, Dragon Sleeper, so on, so forth. The man is just a wrestling genius, one of THE best ever, and he's shown interest in working in the WWE because he likes american wrestling oddly, so WWE decides to give the big international star a shot.

    I hope he does just as good as Rey Rey is doing...i'm anxious to see the Ultimo vs Angle match






I haven't seen much from him, interview-wise, since he was first in WCW... I seem to recall his english being fairly broken, but that's been some time ago.

Oh, and not to pick nits, but the dragon sleeper is named for Tatsumi "The Dragon" Fujinami. Not that that makes Ultimo any less awesome.



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Markme123
Polska kielbasa








Since: 7.1.02
From: San Jose, Cali

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#7 Posted on
The simple fact is that he is considered one of the greatest cruiserweights of all time. Why wouldn't you want someone like that in your division?

(edited by CRZ on 27.6.03 2238)



Notorious F.A.B.
Pepperoni








Since: 4.2.02
From: Dudleyville's Gay Ghetto

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#8 Posted on
I don't remember his chops being as fucking stiff as they are. It looked like he was straight punching Shannon in the chest.

The guy's a highlight reel. Just wait till he starts mixing it up with Rey. Jaimie Knoble has a story line now so maybe he'll start getting back in there with the cruisers too.

And on a slightly different topic, is the Toryumon style similar to his? I haven't ordered any international tapes yet. If they're all like him then that sounds like the best place to start!



It's just you against the group mind.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#9 Posted on
I absolutely LOVE Ultimo Dragon, and I have ever since I started watching WCW years back just to kill time because "The other company" really sucked and bored me.

I never really figured out why I loved him so much though, until I read something someone on the net used to describe him. They said something like "He doesn't have many great matches with anyone, but he has good matches with everyone". That pretty much sums up my feelings. Even if nothing will ever make the WWE "You gotta see this" DVD they might do one day, I know that when he's on TV, I'll never have to worry about an urge to change the channel.

He's like the Japanese version of Ted DiBiase.


Tribal Prophet



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AmericanDragon
Chaurice








Since: 3.6.03

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#10 Posted on
Toryumon has 3 different "classes." There's the first batch of students, T2P (Toryumon 2000 Project), and Toryumon X. I haven't seen any Toryumon X yet but I can tell you about the other two classes. The first class is basically Ultimo Dragon's style. They mix high flying moves, stiff kicks, and matwork. T2P is full of elaborate submissions that have to be seen to be believed. Milano AT is the "ace" of T2P and he can turn basically every offensive move against him into a submission if he wanted to.
Kevintripod
Andouille








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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Last activity: 6 hours
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#11 Posted on
I wonder if the WWE will ever bring in Juventud Guerrera and Psychosis. Maybe with them the WWE could bring back the glory days when WCW's cruiserweight division frigging rocked (Yeah....I can dream).

I remember Juventud would always make me laugh whenever he was on the mic trying to act like the Rock.



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uberlou
Merguez








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, Cali

Since last post: 1554 days
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#12 Posted on
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    I wonder if the WWE will ever bring in Juventud Guerrera and Psychosis. Maybe with them the WWE could bring back the glory days when WCW's cruiserweight division frigging rocked (Yeah....I can dream).

    I remember Juventud would always make me laugh whenever he was on the mic trying to act like the Rock.



well, they gave Juvi a tryout but he completely screwed himself by not following the guidelines WWE gave him for the match.

As for Ultimo, obviously he's still working some of the ring rust off, but that doesn't matter. I heard someone say Dragon at 75% is better than most other guys who are at 100%. That finsher he pulled out though was crisply and smoothly executed. very sweet. I look forward to what they'll do with him since it seems like Ultimo can do no wrong when in the ring.

I've caught a couple Toryumon shows as well recently and it really is a well-run ship. The young talent they have there is amazing. Practically any of those guys could be stars. Hell, even the comedy guys (i.e. Stocker Ichikawa, Kinya Oyanagi) are highly entertaining. Comedy matches there aren't the same as here.

I'm not sure how Ultimo's booking would do in the US (if he does it much like Toryumon), since the Japanese fans and American fans are very different.

But it'd kill for a Genki Horiguchi vs. Spanky match.


note: someone's gotta tell Markme123 to fix his sig/header. There's obviously a missing close table code in there or something.

(edited by GrubbyLongJohns on 27.6.03 2056)




InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#13 Posted on
1) First of all, Ultimo Dragon is Japanese. How often have you seen a Japanese guy from the WWE criticized on this board? Tajiri is oft praised, Funaki is Smackdown's #1 Announcer and Jamie Noble is an IWC darling.

2) As has already been said, Ultimo Dragon is an excellent, well-rounded wrestler. He's also an experienced trainer, running schools in both Mexico and Japan. If worst comes to worst (and I'm among the few who don't presume it will) Ultimo gets sent to OVW and you have one of the best trainers in the world helping to train the WWE developmental talent.

3) And, of course, now that there are three Japanese guys in the WWE, they can join forces as a Yakuza-type stable and feud with the FBI. Though I'm wondering if even Vince his stupid enough to intentionally offend the Yakuza.
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

Since last post: 613 days
Last activity: 4 days
AIM:  
#14 Posted on
(deleted by RYDER FAKIN on 28.6.03 0206)
Simba
Frankfurter








Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

Since last post: 2441 days
Last activity: 2049 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.20

    Originally posted by gkc
    My memory is fairly decent, and I am trying to remember why anyone would care that the Ultimo Dragon is in the WWE. It's been 5-6 years since his WCW run, and here is what I remember when I hear "Ultimo Dragon".

    1. One of the dumbest moves ever when he ran to the corner, did a headstand on the top turnbuckle, and then waited and waited until the even dumber opponent would run up to him, and then he'd slap a hurracanrana (sp?) on him. All the opponent had to do was wait for the blood running to his head made him dizzy and fall off the turnbuckle.

    2. No matter how hard Mike Tenay tried to put him over with the ten title thing no one in the audience cared about him except for....

    3. The awesome kick combo.

    That's it, and I'm wondering why the WWE thinks he's going to increase business unless he's learned English in the past few years. As a wrestling fan a Tajiri-Ultimo series would be fun as a battle of the stiff kickers, but basically he's going to be an early card guy.



I'm sure this thread will get lots of replies discussing how he was relevant in Japan or some promotion I don't care about. However, I'm in agreement that this WWE run will be nothing more than an acrobatic clip model for UPN bumpers and Desire videos.



Reserved for future use.
Mr. Heat Miser
Blutwurst








Since: 27.1.02

Since last post: 2481 days
Last activity: 583 days
#16 Posted on
I normally think Taz and Cole are fine, but was it bothering anyone else that Cole was calling him "THE" Ultimo Dragon?

It just sounded so....off.



-MHM, winner of the 2000 Throwdown in Christmastown.
AmericanDragon
Chaurice








Since: 3.6.03

Since last post: 4071 days
Last activity: 3978 days
#17 Posted on
Yeah but Rey called him The Ultimate Dragon, which is worse.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54

    First of all, Ultimo Dragon is Japanese. How often have you seen a Japanese guy from the WWE criticized on this board? Tajiri is oft praised, Funaki is Smackdown's #1 Announcer and Jamie Noble is an IWC darling.


Jamie Noble is Japanese? He was in the Yung Dragons, but as the token white boy.

Question about the Dragon....was that stuff Cole was saying about his being the "last student of Bruce Lee" true at all?


(edited by Big Bad on 28.6.03 1323)


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Quezzy
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Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

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#19 Posted on
Well I have to agree with most of the things said already but about the handstand on the turnbuckle? It might seem stupid or pointless, but it's impressive to me. It's just a move for show. Just like the People's Elbow, just like the Spinarooni, just like Undertaker's rope walk. For the most part those moves are all enjoyed just because they put on a good show, just like Ultimo Dragon's turnbuckle move.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3198 days
Last activity: 3198 days
#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by InVerse
    1) First of all, Ultimo Dragon is Japanese. How often have you seen a Japanese guy from the WWE criticized on this board? Tajiri is oft praised, Funaki is Smackdown's #1 Announcer and Jamie Noble is an IWC darling.



Kenzo Suzuki was brutal, totally and utterly brutal in NWATNA. He's like the Japanese Lex Luger.

Unless people buy tapes, they get spoiled by seeing only good Japanese wrestlers on American TV.

Ultimo does have some contrived moves but that's the lucha influence. If you break down Rey's offense, it's extremely contrived but it's fun after you accept that it's a different style then you're used to. I don't know if Ultimo can do the handstand anymore with his botched elbow.

Mike Tenay used to talk about Ultimo being the last student of Bruce Lee in WCW but I'm not really sure how much of that is a work.
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