The W
Views: 97616136
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
23.7.14 1924
The W - Current Events & Politics - UCLA student getting tasered (Page 3)
This thread has 18 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Thread rated: 4.83
Pages: Prev 1 2 3
(508 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (52 total)
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    I love how you(BucsFan) think the cop just wanted to be a bigshot but can't see that the kid wanted the same thing and that's what lead to this.

    They were both overboard and to me if two tards wanna tear each other apart I say so much the better for the rest of us.




The obvious, so-blatant-I-can't-believe-I-have-to-spell-it-out-for-you difference being that one is (supposedly) acting to protect and preserve the law. I couldn't give two shits about the kid and his motives. He'll get what he deserves, whether that's simply getting kicked out of the library or some community service or whatever; I do know it's not the officer's job to decide what his punishment should be. The officer is there to detain him and get him under control in the easiest way possible. He wasn't a threat to the cops.

To hold both of them to the same standard is pretty silly. The kid's an idiot; so is the cop. the difference is, the cop's a cop.
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 12 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.46
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    So again, what freedom was traded? The freedom to break rules you don't like?


So what would have been too much. It was OK to tasre the guy several times. Would it have been ok to strike him with the baton a few times, maybe even over the head? Shoot him in the leg? The head?

Do you understand the concept of force and that the police do not have the right to beat your ass because you have violated some law. They have the right to apprehend you and to be safe in doing so.

I don't understand you guys. Clearly, cops have to enforce the law - I mean, I hit my share of guys with my baton when I was breaking up fights and needed to - but this is pretty clearly wrong.



Signature
We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

Since last post: 70 days
Last activity: 10 hours
AIM:  
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by AWArulz
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      So again, what freedom was traded? The freedom to break rules you don't like?


    So what would have been too much. It was OK to tasre the guy several times. Would it have been ok to strike him with the baton a few times, maybe even over the head? Shoot him in the leg? The head?

    Do you understand the concept of force and that the police do not have the right to beat your ass because you have violated some law. They have the right to apprehend you and to be safe in doing so.

    I don't understand you guys. Clearly, cops have to enforce the law - I mean, I hit my share of guys with my baton when I was breaking up fights and needed to - but this is pretty clearly wrong.


Well shooting I think would be going too far. Anything that puts his life in danger or leaves permanant damage in this case.

However I HATE HATE HATE people like that kid. Just a personal thing, so maybe that's why I have zero sympathy or problem with the cops here. I keep watching that video and getting so mad at the other kids with their horribly stupid "I want your badge number" crap too and his Patriot Act line just pushed me over the edge.

No the cops shouldn't be able to beat anyone they want, but when someone is repeatedly warned and still acts up I don't have a problem with them making a point with him as they did here. I just don't. Maybe it is wrong, but it just doesn't in any way bother me.

(edited by wmatistic on 22.11.06 0557)
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    They have the right to apprehend you and to be safe in doing so.


I believe that's exactly what they did. This guy was not listening to (apparently) six cops, including at least one threatening to hit him with the taser, for whatever reason. They neutralized him with the taser so they, and the other students in the library, would "be safe in doing so."

Maybe if it was just that guy and there weren't many people around, they would've done things differently. It seems to me the cop could have completely rationally gone to the taser because it would take the guy down without a fight, and a fight (like if they had just tried to subdue him to get him cuffed) could have endangered other students, who were only a few feet from the confrontation.

I just went back and watched it, again, and after they taser him the first time, they say some variation of "stand up" TWENTY TIMES. After the third time, the kid CLEARLY replies "fuck off", and one cop says at least twice "get up or you're going to get tased again", and the kid STILL disobeys them.

    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Would it have been ok to strike him with the baton a few times, maybe even over the head? Shoot him in the leg? The head?


No, that wouldn't have been OK, and it should be pointed out that they didn't actually do any of those things and no one is arguing they should have. They used the best tool they had to take care of the situation, and no one else got hurt and the kid didn't suffer any debilitating injuries of any sort.




Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 12 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.46
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    After the third time, the kid CLEARLY replies "fuck off", and one cop says at least twice "get up or you're going to get tased again", and the kid STILL disobeys them.


I had a zillion kids tell me the same basic thing. No problem, I hauled their ass to their feet (usually alone, mind you), tossed them in the back of the car and took 'em down to the House. And they got resisting on top of D & D or whatever they were into (I worked a district where we had bar fights all freaking Friday and Saturday nights every week). Guys who get cuffed think they can somehow get out of it by going limp and laying on the ground. They can't.

Of course, we couldn't actually see the guy during this time. It is tricky to get up when you're cuffed in the first place. I have never been Tased, but I would guess it messes with some part of you and might or might not make it even more tricky.

But a guy going limp in cuffs: in my day, we didn't have Tasers - I had my Baton and my gun. I don't believe it would have been OK to stick the guy, so I don't believe it would be OK to Taser the guy.

No Current P.O. here?

    Originally posted by JayJayDean


      Originally posted by AWArulz
      Would it have been ok to strike him with the baton a few times, maybe even over the head? Shoot him in the leg? The head?


    No, that wouldn't have been OK, and it should be pointed out that they didn't actually do any of those things and no one is arguing they should have. They used the best tool they had to take care of the situation, and no one else got hurt and the kid didn't suffer any debilitating injuries of any sort.



You know, there's some question about that as well. As I am sure you can imagine, being hit with a baton can leave a mark. They taught us how to hit guys without leaving a mark with the Baton (Think: Wrap the Baton in a thick Towell and drive it into his gut). While it didn't leave a physical mark, the guy pissed blood for a week.

It's weird to be on the perceived "liberal" side of this argument. I just can't see how anyone can think that a inconsequential misdemeanor charge and a kid who is obviously arguementative (but, according to all reports, not combative) would justify a herd of P.O.s and 4+ taser shots.

Like I said, I didn't have a problem with the force - I just think they went way too far.



Signature
We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
There are people who argue against moral relativism who are very "Law and Order". They can't see the shades of gray here, where the cop could be right to apprehend but wrong to use force. To them this is a clear cut issue of who the bad guy is and who the good guy is.

I don't see this discussion as conservative and liberal, I see it as thinking and reactionary at this point.

I'm very much for punishing criminals, but I am very against police exceeding their authority. I have a friend in Southern California who had a baton shoved up his ass by a cop when a mob of people ran at him, and he ran with them because he didn't know why they were running. Apparently the cop "knew" he was guilty of something because he was running, and decided to put a beat down on him without giving any warning. He had warned the mob block away.

I suppose you blame my friend for walking out onto the street as well, and this really saddens me.

I like law enforcement, I think they do a great job and a job that I would not and am not capable of doing. I just wish people wouldn't write blank checks for them. I prefer the judicial branch be the judge of whether or not someone is a criminal.




Sign up for Folding@Home and join our team. PM me for details.

Ignorance is bliss for you, hell for me.
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
Here, before this degrades any further...

What I am trying to say is - I like police, I don't like some police tactics.

Here's another case from the last few days. http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/22/woman.shot.ap/index.html This woman was 92 years old and was killed by police after she defended herself from a home invasion.

The police say they "knocked and announced". Now, I know personally when I have been in the restroom, I haven't gotten to the door within 5 seconds. In fact, if I'm in my bedroom, I don't get to the door within 5 seconds. Yet, I probably would not make out the "announce" the first time.

I hate this tactic. I understand why the "bad guys" make it so you have to use it. The problem is it leaves no room for the "good guys" who just are not expecting anyone to bust into their house, and may not immediately put "search warrant" together with "I am not being robbed, I need to lie down and not defend myself".

I'm sure these cops followed the bare minimum required by law for the warrant. They are "right". A private citizen who was innocent is dead. I don't side with the cops on this one.




Sign up for Folding@Home and join our team. PM me for details.

Ignorance is bliss for you, hell for me.
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Apparently the cop "knew" he was guilty of something because he was running, and decided to put a beat down on him without giving any warning. He had warned the mob block away.

    I suppose you blame my friend for walking out onto the street as well, and this really saddens me.


If it is as clear-cut as you say, then I wouldn't blame your friend. That would be like if the kid in this case actually WAS leaving and the cops freaked out on him.

I feel bad for that old lady, but it's not like the cops were wrong in that case to shoot back.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

Since last post: 70 days
Last activity: 10 hours
AIM:  
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    There are people who argue against moral relativism who are very "Law and Order". They can't see the shades of gray here, where the cop could be right to apprehend but wrong to use force. To them this is a clear cut issue of who the bad guy is and who the good guy is.

    I don't see this discussion as conservative and liberal, I see it as thinking and reactionary at this point.

    I'm very much for punishing criminals, but I am very against police exceeding their authority. I have a friend in Southern California who had a baton shoved up his ass by a cop when a mob of people ran at him, and he ran with them because he didn't know why they were running. Apparently the cop "knew" he was guilty of something because he was running, and decided to put a beat down on him without giving any warning. He had warned the mob block away.

    I suppose you blame my friend for walking out onto the street as well, and this really saddens me.

    I like law enforcement, I think they do a great job and a job that I would not and am not capable of doing. I just wish people wouldn't write blank checks for them. I prefer the judicial branch be the judge of whether or not someone is a criminal.


Yeah, that example is nothing like this incident in my view as your friend wasn't doing anything wrong. The kid here was.

And I think part of the disconnect here is that I'm looking at this incident while others are looking at a broader ideal. Should cops be able to beat down anyone they want is not the issue I see. It's did this kid cause his own problems, and do I feel bad for him.

Yes and no would be the answer.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by Guru Zim
      Apparently the cop "knew" he was guilty of something because he was running, and decided to put a beat down on him without giving any warning. He had warned the mob block away.

      I suppose you blame my friend for walking out onto the street as well, and this really saddens me.


    If it is as clear-cut as you say, then I wouldn't blame your friend. That would be like if the kid in this case actually WAS leaving and the cops freaked out on him.

    I feel bad for that old lady, but it's not like the cops were wrong in that case to shoot back.


OK but the point is that when a cop is so quick to jump on the unquestioned attack, as this officer certainly appears to be based on his repeated incidents, it leaves him no time to decide which scenario he finds himself in.

Not to mention, just based on what I know about this officer and this case, I don't trust this officer to make the right decision. Police officers can't take the law into their own hands anymore than anyone else can.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
I think the issue is getting a bit muddled here. I think it's not about whether the UCLA kid did anything wrong (which he did, enough to be forcefully removed), nor do I think it's even about whether the officers had to use some kind of force. They did. He wasn't going to walk out, so he had to be removed.

It's about whether, once subduing the suspect, the officers behaved wrongly.

The police had several options at their disposal, especially if there was more than one officer there. They could have picked the kid up by his arms, one on each side, and carried him out.

Instead, to me, it looks as if they were just so lazy they didn't want to do the heavy lifting and tasered him, hoping he'd do all the work for them.
Merc
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Brisbane, Australia

Since last post: 1197 days
Last activity: 1175 days
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
I've only done security training. I haven't ever done any polic training, even though tht guys who did our baton and handcuff training were the same guys who did the same training for the police.
Our first rule was only use the force required to overcome the force used against you.
A kid saying "Fuck you" doesn't represent an amount of force that requires use of a taser. If anything it requires one or two people to drag his arse out of there.
As much as the kid is a dickhead, the cops have training in how to deal with the situation. If their training says "Kepp shocking the guy until he shits his pants", they have nothing to worry about. The guys who developed the training are a little suspect though.
Realistically, as AWA says, 2 guys can pick up 1 tased kid and get him out, without 4 other guys shocking him for the hell of it. It may be that they all acted within guidelines, though I doubt it, but just because you CAN use a certain level of force, doesn't mean you have to.
Pages: Prev 1 2 3
Thread rated: 4.83
Pages: Prev 1 2 3
Thread ahead: A jobless man arrested with 78K and nuke info
Next thread: The New Old Russia
Previous thread: Milton Friedman Passes Away
(508 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Foiled al-Qaida Attackers Caught Red-Handed With WMDs Two members of an al-Qaida cell connected to top terror master Abu Musab al-Zarqawi have been caught in Jordan with chemical weapons and poisonous gas for a planned attack that Jordanian officials sa...
The W - Current Events & Politics - UCLA student getting tasered (Page 3)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.118 seconds.