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The W - Random - TV Credits question
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Super Shane Spear
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Does anybody know, or have a guess, as to how the final acting credit star is chosen. You know, where it says all the names and then it says "AND [supporting actor]." Is it something the performer works out in their contracts to be the last person in the credits?

(edited by Super Shane Spear on 19.11.02 2029)



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Since: 2.1.02

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
You know, I'm not too sure about that... I should really go read the Actor's Guild document to really figure that one out.

I'd assume, though, it's up to the director who gets to be a lead character, who gets to be a supporting character, and who gets to be a 'with' character. But, there's a definet rule that anyone who's been hired to do an acting job HAS to be credited one way or another. That doesn't include extras, as they don't have any kind of real agreement with the producer.

I really doubt there's anything in their contracts saying who's a lead, and who's a supporting character. Maybe back a few decades, actors had issues over that, but not today. If any actor had a problem not being in the credits as a 'star' would probably, simply, not get any work.

If you've noticed, though, more and more these days credits are done alphabetically, and I think that that's how it should be done, personally, as everyone in the production is equally important as everyone else.



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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#3 Posted on
It all has to do with billing I guess.
the AND is sort of like 'and last but not least' I'd say.

Now what annoys me is when somebody is apparently so special that they get 'special guest star' billing even when they are part of the weekly crew.




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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

    Originally posted by dMp

    Now what annoys me is when somebody is apparently so special that they get 'special guest star' billing even when they are part of the weekly crew.



This I remember happening on some TV show in the 1960s and it was a contract thing. Someone was an early guest star and then stayed on the show and kept the "guest star" tag even though they had become a regular.

I'm not 100 % sure, but I think it may have been the recently-deceased Dr. Smith on Lost in Space.



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Since: 4.1.02
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#5 Posted on
Heather Locklear had it on Melrose Place..
and I am not sure about this but she might have it again in Spin City?




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Since: 2.1.02

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#6 Posted on
I think it's up to the producer in TV, not the director, and it would be something that would be negotiated in a contract. Assuming the credits are not specifically noted as being alphabetically ordered, the first credit is the most important and the next best or next most sought after is the final "and" or "with" credit. So if someone isn't billed first, his or her agent might negotiate to get the final credit instead. That's why a lot of shows with a veteran actor who isn't playing the lead would have opening credits listing the actor last with the little "and" or "with" tag.
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Since: 26.6.02
From: Ware, MA

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#7 Posted on
Yeah, I always figured the "and" actor was a recognizable actor that had a moderately smaller role than the leads.



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Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

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#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by dMp
    Heather Locklear had it on Melrose Place..
    and I am not sure about this but she might have it again in Spin City?



Yeah, they also did it with Luke Perry when he came back on 90210 for the last 2-3 seasons. Maybe it's an Aaron Spelling thank-you-for-coming-to-save-my-show gesture?
They also changed the Buffy credits this year, pushing "Allyson Hannigan as Willow" to the end. Not sure why...
Of course, the bigger question is why a 30-year old man knows the credits for both 90210 and Buffy, but that's a whole other can of worms.



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Since: 17.3.02
From: Boston

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#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by Simba

      Originally posted by dMp
      Heather Locklear had it on Melrose Place..
      and I am not sure about this but she might have it again in Spin City?



    Yeah, they also did it with Luke Perry when he came back on 90210 for the last 2-3 seasons. Maybe it's an Aaron Spelling thank-you-for-coming-to-save-my-show gesture?
    They also changed the Buffy credits this year, pushing "Allyson Hannigan as Willow" to the end. Not sure why...
    Of course, the bigger question is why a 30-year old man knows the credits for both 90210 and Buffy, but that's a whole other can of worms.


I remember seeing on E! or something one time that this is exactly what it was with Heather Locklear on Melrose. Spelling was so grateful to her for agreeing to be on the show (I think she was only supposed to be on for a few initial episodes) that he always kept her listed as a special guest star. I'm guessing they did the same thing with Luke Perry for 90210
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by Simba

      Originally posted by dMp
      Heather Locklear had it on Melrose Place..
      and I am not sure about this but she might have it again in Spin City?



    Yeah, they also did it with Luke Perry when he came back on 90210 for the last 2-3 seasons. Maybe it's an Aaron Spelling thank-you-for-coming-to-save-my-show gesture?
    They also changed the Buffy credits this year, pushing "Allyson Hannigan as Willow" to the end. Not sure why...
    Of course, the bigger question is why a 30-year old man knows the credits for both 90210 and Buffy, but that's a whole other can of worms.



I guess they did it to Allyson for her following from the American Pie movies?? just a guess, but it may be for other reasons.



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Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

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#11 Posted on
Being the odd man who hangs out in both the Wrestling and Buffy communities, I'll try to field this one as best I can:

Before he left the show, Tony Head (Giles) was always listed last in the credits because he was the one that casual viewers were most likely to recognize (other than Sarah) and because he was the most vetran actor on the show. The star always gets first listing, and the most recognizable (at least in the U.S., I've heard it's different in the UK) minor actor gets last billing, the one that comes just before the start of the show/commercials. This is supposed to be a draw in TV land, because you see the "big name" actor at the end of the credits, and it sticks with you to stay around and watch the show.

After Giles left (and probably before), Alyson had become more famous than any of her other Buffy counterparts, except, depending on who you talk to, SMG (unless you were a HUGE "Psycho Beach Party" fan). So, "Alyson Hannigan as Willow" got the second billing (which is actually the last billing).

Now despite the fact that she was on the show for almost every episode from the middle of the fourth season to nearly the end of the sixth, Amber Benson (Tara) never recieved billing as a main actor she was always "Guest Stars: Amber Benson as Tara". The reason for this is because she wanted the freedom to leave the show as she wished (to become a director/producer which she's doing now), so she was only contracted to appear in a certain number of episodes per year. Though that ended up being almost all of them over a two and a half year timespan, because she was not under an official, binding full season contract with Mutant Enemy, she was not given a slot on the credits (and she's since refused to sign another one. even though a part was written for her this year).

So, at least for this one case, the last actor is the most recognizable outside the lead and the reason that a regular appears as a "guest star" is because the "guest star" hadn't signed the same full contract as the regulars.

(edited by Excalibur05 on 20.11.02 1330)



Since everyone else is doing it (ok, not EVERYONE, but...)

Vikings (3-7) - Where the hell has THAT team been?
Badgers (6-6) - Bowl bound! Oh wait...
Buffy 7... Earns Pi x 2 points...Uh...Not really sure what I'm supposed to thing...That was one friggin' weird episode...
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
my understand has always been:

Leads get the first credits, supporting cast next, and a vet with a supporting role gets the "with" credit

Star wars has Hamill, Fisher, and Ford got equal billing and in the video version, James Earl Jones got the "With" billing as the voice of Vader.

i THINK Cushing got the "With" credit...don't quote me though, but i'll have to watch it at work tonight to find out...

I used to be a huge Who's the Boss? fan in the 80's for Alyssa Milano and the opening credits started with Danza, Light, Milano, and Pintauro. Katherine Helmond got the "With" credit for playing Light's mother



Wrestling has been rhyming with ass. I miss shows and it makes me all shades of ambivalence. WWE is starting to suck again. The crops?
Jeezum Spice! Someone stole my crops. What in the ham fat is going on. That's just poo-doo!
That's just my 2.4856 Yen.
R-D-Z
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Since: 11.1.02
From: Houston

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 7 days
#13 Posted on
"...and Dave Madden as Ruben Kincaid."

Jason Alexander always had the "as George" tag during Seinfeld's run, too.

(edited by Bullitt on 20.11.02 1403)

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Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

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#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by rikidozan
    I used to be a huge Who's the Boss? fan in the 80's for Alyssa Milano


I love how you qualify that.

Come on, we're all friends here. You were a HUGE mark for the comic stylings of Tony Danza, weren't you?




Since everyone else is doing it (ok, not EVERYONE, but...)

Vikings (3-7) - Where the hell has THAT team been?
Badgers (6-6) - Bowl bound! Oh wait...
Buffy 7... Earns Pi x 2 points...Uh...Not really sure what I'm supposed to thing...That was one friggin' weird episode...
J. Kyle
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Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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Y!:
#15 Posted on
Jkyle.com says:


    Originally posted by Excalibur05

      Originally posted by rikidozan
      I used to be a huge Who's the Boss? fan in the 80's for Alyssa Milano


    I love how you qualify that.

    Come on, we're all friends here. You were a HUGE mark for the comic stylings of Tony Danza, weren't you?

We were ALL huge marks for Tony Danza... where's the Who's the Boss reunion movie? C'mon, if they can do it for Growing Pains and Alf...





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Super Shane Spear
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

Since last post: 1558 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Whoa whoa! There was a Growing Pains reunion movie and I missed it??




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