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23.4.14 1441
The W - Pro Wrestling - Triple H gives it up for free
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BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 9 hours
Last activity: 9 hours
#1 Posted on
Triple H gave it up for free last night. Yes he did, at least for me anyway. Lastnight's mainevent was the best that I've seen Triple H look since his prequad injury, Lemme listening, biker days.

Look, I do as much Triple H bitching as the next guy, but I'll give him some credit here. He made RVD look like a million bucks in last nights mainevent. He sold all of RVD's offense like a champ and even bumped around the ring a bit. Sure, he wasn't the same Triple H from the late 90's, but it was as close as he's come on Raw in a long time. Triple H can hold the belt for a gizzillion bazzillion years and screw over whoever he wants in the company, but if his mainevents keep improving like they have recently and he keeps on making his opponets look good then I might not have such a big problem with him after all. And isn't that what it's all about...compromise.



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dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#2 Posted on
I haven't had much to complain about his wrestling skills in the past month or two. could it actually be now that HHH is not troubled by injuries and such he actually returns to form a bit?




*sigh* Why bother?
Parts Unknown
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#3 Posted on
That could be the case, combined with my belief that he is much leaner than when he first returned. He's starting to look more like the old, lithe, fast Cerebral Assassin instead of Big Poppa Pump. That's gotta help.



"Also, don't incur the wrath of P.U. It can only lead to trouble." - Torchslasher
Shem the Penman
Toulouse








Since: 16.1.02
From: The Off-Center of the Universe (aka Philadelphia)

Since last post: 81 days
Last activity: 10 days
#4 Posted on
I've been thinking all year that Triple H is looking better in the ring -- if not up to his 2000/2001 peak, at least better than he did last year. He did have a good match with Booker at Wrestlemania, retarded ending aside, and that wasn't just Booker carrying him.

Problem is, so far this year he's spent most of his time working with loads like Steiner and Nash, who even Flair might have trouble carrying. And improved ringwork doesn't make up for his being booked to go cleanly over virtually every face on Raw, but -that- has been hashed and rehashed and re-rehashed quite often.



"next to of course god america i
love you land of the pilgrims' and so forth oh
say can you see by the dawn's early my
country tis of centuries come and go
and are no more what of it we should worry
in every language even deafanddumb
thy sons acclaim your glorious name by gorry
by jingo by gee by gosh by gum
why talk of beauty what could be more beaut-
iful than these heroic happy dead
who rushed like lions to the roaring slaughter
they did not stop to think they died instead
then shall the voice of liberty be mute?"

He spoke. And drank rapidly a glass of water
Toast Jr
Chourico








Since: 30.1.03
From: Stafford Springs, CT

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 day
#5 Posted on
I've never had a problem with Triple H's wrestling. I think he always looks like he is taking his title matches seriously and he's putting his all in his work. It's the booking that's the problem. He's always been a great wrestler, it's just that he's been a heel champion for so long, with no sign of his comeuppance in sight.

RVD on the other hand, was less than stellar. Jeez, Evolution was making him look like a total powerhouse last night, and he could even pretend his legs hurt just a little bit? Just a tiny bit of selling, that's all I ask for. Rob, I'm very disappointed in you.
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2492 days
Last activity: 2491 days
#6 Posted on
I'm in agreement totally, that match was tight and HHH was doing a hell of a job. Sucks that the crowd wasn't into it, but I didn't take it for granted though, so I taped it, and I must say that this Evolution thing is really working out for him so far. I'm glad to see the big guy get some props once in a while, and not just from me either, hehe...



1100 bitches and counting....
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
#7 Posted on
The lack of crowd reaction is the bookers reaping what they have sown over the course of the last year. They have made it so that no one is able to buy into anyone not named HBK being able to beat HHH, especially without some sort of assistance. The only time the crowd began to buy into the match was when it went to no-DQ and FCA, because they've seen enough matches of that sort where someone can come in and help the face to victory which was the only way HHH will be going down in most fans eyes. And before the knives come out, this isn't a bash on HHH, who did everything he could last night to make it seem possible RVD could win that match. But one night of effort cannot undo one year of booking, so the crowd and most likely the ratings did not buy into that main event as being anything of importance.



and maybe I should open up my sensitive side/but really, the sensitive side sucks./I've been there./You can only imagine the kinds of sweaters they make you wear.

blogforamerica.com
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2492 days
Last activity: 2491 days
#8 Posted on
I agree with that too completely. It's been a long year for us all, and it can't (barring a miracle) evaporate a year of mostly hellish booking. But, the hardest problems can only be solved one day at a time...



1100 bitches and counting....
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#9 Posted on

And does it look as if Triple H has slimmed up a bit? He didn't appear as "hulking" last night as he has in the past.




www.deargodwrestling.com ... putting the "DEAR GOD" back into wrestling ..
uberlou
Merguez








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, Cali

Since last post: 1435 days
Last activity: 1205 days
AIM:  
#10 Posted on
One thing that stood out for me last night, Trip didn't even pull out the pedigree. He attempted it but failed. shocking. He did give RVD lots of offense and sold it well. Personally though, I think that submission sequence might've gone too long. I'm also disappointed at the dead crowd early on. That might've made the submission sequence more exciting if they were cheering on Rob during that time. But they seemed to come back to life near the end with the hot pins.





BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3195 days
Last activity: 3104 days
ICQ:  
#11 Posted on
The problem of late hasn't been HHH's ring work. When paired up with guys who are not borderline useless (Steiner) or worse (Nash), the matches have been fine. Someone has already cited the Booker T. match at WM which was a pretty good match.

Another thing the WM match had going for it was that the finish was in doubt. I can't overstate the importance of this factor enough. I could probably count on both hands and maybe even on one the number of guys I would want to see wrestle a main event length match if the outcome were already known. Most TV matches at least have a slim "this could be the night" feel to them, enough to at least provide a hot ending. Not Hunter's. The Booker T. match at WM and the Kane match last week were probably the only times since Bischoff brought back the WCW belt that I thought there really was a chance HHH could lose. Aside from that it's basically been filler, especially when "who's gonna win???" has been the only form of storyline backing Hunter's matches all this time.

The matches can be as technically sound as they want, but when there's no suspense or intrigue they lose any element of storytelling.
BionicRedNeck2k3
Tocino








Since: 24.1.03

Since last post: 3937 days
Last activity: 3934 days
#12 Posted on
As far as the crowd goes,I felt that everyone was pretty into the ME but everyone sitting next to me at the arena knew that RVD wasnt gonna take the strap, either via a Kane or Evolution DQ. After Bisch came out and restarted the match everyone got into it almost like "Hey, maybe this will be the night".. and then reality set in. Personally I felt that they should've had Kane turn on RVD, my thought was that he should break through the bottom of the ring and drag RVD "DOWN TO THE DEEPEST PITS OF HELLLL!!!!".That woulda got a response. But seriously, it was the lack of starpower at the show that killed the crowd not those who actually wrestled. RAW- Austin,HBK,Foley,Nash, and for the most part Kane and Goldberg= no crowd response.



"You go ahead and talk about your psalms and your "John 3:16", Well "Austin 3:16" says I just whupped your ASS!!".
RawLo
Salami








Since: 9.7.02
From: San Diego, CA

Since last post: 3522 days
Last activity: 2767 days
#13 Posted on
I gotta give credit where credit is due, Gorilla... Triple H looked good in the ring.
But there was no real sense of suspense to the match... instead of wondering who was gonna win, I wondered "How are they going to make RVD lose"...

But cheers again to Hunter.
Ever since his exchange with Foley- I've become interested in Triple H again... Last night, he looked less like the HHH who sauntered around with Nash and more like the HHH who piledrived Rock onto the ring steps at their classic SummerSlam ladder match.

(edited by RawLo on 1.7.03 1629)


I was there....When Chris Jericho beat Austin and Rock in the same night to become the first ever Undisputed Champion!
(And for the incredible Eddie/ Edge "no DQ"!!!)
James F'n X
Bockwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 2903 days
Last activity: 2870 days
AIM:  
#14 Posted on
All i gotta say is RVD's selling in that match was SHAMEFUL. This is the reason some people can't stand RVD. HHH spends the better part of 5 minutes working the leg, including what's been put over as a devastating hold in the old Terra Ryzing Lock, and RVD is jumping no less than 90 seconds later. I'd much rather have a politico with a paranoid grip on his title reign that knows how to sell as champ than Mr. Gymnastics.




"Is this just your 40 favorites or is there some other criteria involved here? I feel like I'm looking at a list of the 40 best Uruguayan light-heavyweights compiled by the DVDVR boys." - JayJayDean to Feely
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#15 Posted on

This was the first match where I truly saw what everyone was bitching about. If even the commentators have to cover your no-sell, you need work.

But...to be fair, the whole psychology of the match was flawed then. 99% of RVD's offense is based on his leg's and mobility...if he HAD truly sold, HHH should've just been able to pin him. Nobody wants that either.

Finally, did anyone else pick up the "break his leg" chant when HHH had RVD in his "indian death lock" variant? It made me think the crowd was in his corner, but then they sat on their hands when he tried to pull out the Pedigree.


Go figure that crowd...






SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#16 Posted on

    Originally posted by James F'n X
    All i gotta say is RVD's selling in that match was SHAMEFUL.

Well, I slept through the entire Indian Death lock, but I think RVD's "selling" of the back was the worst. He screams like his back is on fire while they're on the ramp and then IMMEDIATELY goes into the Rolling Thunder! WTF? C'mon Rob, put down the Chili Cheese Fritos!



James F'n X
Bockwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 2903 days
Last activity: 2870 days
AIM:  
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by cranlsn
    This was the first match where I truly saw what everyone was bitching about. If even the commentators have to cover your no-sell, you need work.

    But...to be fair, the whole psychology of the match was flawed then. 99% of RVD's offense is based on his leg's and mobility...if he HAD truly sold, HHH should've just been able to pin him. Nobody wants that either.



That's the whole point of targeted offense. The heel takes advantage of an opponent's weakness (his lack of moves that don't involve his legs) by attacking a certain part of the body (the knee). The face, now at a disadvantage, takes his punishment, but the heel can't put him away, showing heart. The heel, frustrated that his targeted strategy hasn't worked, strays from his attack. The face, showing more heart, overcomes the pain in the targeted area with a rush of adrenaline, and mounts a comeback, the knee work still slowing him down, however.

That's the heart of psychology. RVD has no friggin clue what that is.




"Is this just your 40 favorites or is there some other criteria involved here? I feel like I'm looking at a list of the 40 best Uruguayan light-heavyweights compiled by the DVDVR boys." - JayJayDean to Feely
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 12 days
#18 Posted on
While RVD's selling was indeed atrocious and while Triple H was good in there, this doesn't change anything. Hunter could turn into Angle overnight and he'd still be wrecking the show with his inalienable domination of the entire roster. It's been static for too long, and making it slightly more entertaining while still static isn't going to sell anymore PPVs. I think it's at the point where a trade is needed just to bring someone over who can credibly give Trips a run.

Booker for Angle?



"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#19 Posted on


    Originally posted by James F'n X

      Originally posted by cranlsn
      This was the first match where I truly saw what everyone was bitching about. If even the commentators have to cover your no-sell, you need work.

      But...to be fair, the whole psychology of the match was flawed then. 99% of RVD's offense is based on his leg's and mobility...if he HAD truly sold, HHH should've just been able to pin him. Nobody wants that either.



    That's the whole point of targeted offense. The heel takes advantage of an opponent's weakness (his lack of moves that don't involve his legs) by attacking a certain part of the body (the knee). The face, now at a disadvantage, takes his punishment, but the heel can't put him away, showing heart. The heel, frustrated that his targeted strategy hasn't worked, strays from his attack. The face, showing more heart, overcomes the pain in the targeted area with a rush of adrenaline, and mounts a comeback, the knee work still slowing him down, however.

    That's the heart of psychology. RVD has no friggin clue what that is.



That's kind of my point too...I was agreeing with you sort of...

RVD's offense is SO limited that he cannot sell effectively. None of his offense works slowed down. He needs to develop some new offense for the "hope" spots to be at all effective in any sort of well paced and thought out match.








dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#20 Posted on
And that's why psychology is really more important in wrestling than being able to jump really high.
If executed well, you have a great match when the heel only works to slow down the highflying face, but gets whooped around the moment the face takes charge (using speedy highflying moves to show the difference and pull the crowd in)

A perfect recent example of when this is Rey's debut on Smackdown.
Chavo did nothing but wicked looking submissions to slow the pace of the match down. The moment Rey got up they kicked it into high gear and were all over the ring..
That's great psychology and build for the match.

And stuff like this is the reason I am afraid, why HHH *is* a student of the game and a main eventer, and RVD is a stoner midarder flipping around the ring.
(And yes, I know his pops are bigger than H's simply because of his natural charisma)



*sigh* Why bother?
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