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The W - Current Events & Politics - Trent Lott's Big Mouth (Page 2)
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asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1430 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Lee Atwater was human slime who, when he was near death, openly regretted his mudslinging because he ruined people's lives.

Grimis, I'm not gonna go point by point on your assertions, but Jesse Jackson has gotten plenty of flak from the media over the years for that comment. And Al Sharpton is perenially treated as a joke in Democratic circles, partly because of his support for people like Brawley. I don't know about the others. But why assert that Lott's getting unfairly singled out? Does that make what he said okay?






"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me

Never been a Wiener of the Day

RFMC Vice President (I think)

cactuspete
Blutwurst








Since: 22.9.02
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 4133 days
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#22 Posted on
does anyone wonder why the ACLU doesnt stand up for Lott's freedom of speech? . . . . . . . . .i guess its the same reason Gloria Steinem and the NOW turned their backs on Paula Jones, after Clinton stuck his cock in her face.



"What do you mean 'Parts Unknown'? Are you telling me he doesn't have a social security number so we can track him down? How does he get a paycheck?" - G. Monsoon


GodEatGod
Boudin rouge








Since: 28.2.02

Since last post: 66 days
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#23 Posted on
Double-standard is such a loaded charge in political discussions. There's ALWAYS a double-standard, on both sides. You want to defend those who believe as you do. Hence, you excuse their misconduct, even while demanding the heads of those on the other side of the aisle with similar or even lesser faults. Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich, for example. The Republicans hounded Clinton and defended Gingrith, the Democrats hounded Gingrich and defended Clinton. In truth, either both were right or both were wrong to do so.

Back on topic, in regards to the Trent Lott bit...even if his statement wasn't racist, it was violently, aggregiously STUPID. Lott is supposed to be professional politician, and should know better to make that kind of asinine remark even at a party for Strom Thurmond. A party which apparently included members of the media. The Republicans -should- get rid of Lott, not only because he's potentially racist, but because he's clearly a moron who puts the party at risk by loose-lips and a lack of judgment. Is that the kind of person you want leading your party in a house of Congress? I don't think so...

Of course, should Lott get pissed enough about being dethroned to quit altogether, the Democratic governor of Mississippi would be more than happy to appoint his replacement. Could be a nice stand-off, don't ya think? "We're going to take away your position." "Oh really? Well, if you do, I'll quit and hand the whole ball of wax to the Democrats..."

Of course, that's assuming Lott has the brains to use such a tactic...



"All I ever asked for in life is an unfair advantage." Microchip, Punisher Annual #2
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by CRZ
    Did NO ONE watch Lott's BET interview?


What an absolute abortion that was, if you'll pardon the expression. If he wasn't a racist going on, he sure is now -racial quotas, Mr. Lott? Aye...


And, Asteroidboy, what's wrong with Willie Horton? He is a terrific example of the failed policies of that clown Mike Dukakis. If Horton was white, no one would be complaining. It's about merit, for God's sake. Horton isn't evil because he's black; he's evil because he's an effing rapist and murderer and whatever else. And what's wrong with the phrase "welfare queens?" I've heard it said - by black people, even - that welfare did indeed destroy the black family. And I don't think this is a knock on blacks, I just think it's a stupid policy. The gov't basically paid women to have kids out of wedlock, and these people were in pretty rough financial straits. It's rather indisputable that black people needed some help to catch up with the rest of us after years of oppression, but welfare has only served to keep them on a different kind of plantation, the Democrat plantation.




Damn your eyes!
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

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#25 Posted on



    What an absolute abortion that was, if you'll pardon the expression. If he wasn't a racist going on, he sure is now -racial quotas, Mr. Lott? Aye...


    And, Asteroidboy, what's wrong with Willie Horton? He is a terrific example of the failed policies of that clown Mike Dukakis. If Horton was white, no one would be complaining. It's about merit, for God's sake. Horton isn't evil because he's black; he's evil because he's an effing rapist and murderer and whatever else. And what's wrong with the phrase "welfare queens?" I've heard it said - by black people, even - that welfare did indeed destroy the black family. And I don't think this is a knock on blacks, I just think it's a stupid policy. The gov't basically paid women to have kids out of wedlock, and these people were in pretty rough financial straits. It's rather indisputable that black people needed some help to catch up with the rest of us after years of oppression, but welfare has only served to keep them on a different kind of plantation, the Democrat plantation.

A couple of points:

Welfare, before it was destroyed by Clinton and Bush, helped middle class white women far more than it ever helped any minority groups. The majority of welfare recipients were on welfare for short periods of time... women who were in a transition between careers and who needed some assitance between jobs, or who were not eligible for unemployemnt.

And when people (black or white or purple, for that matter) say things like "wefare destoyed the black family", I'd really like any assemblance of proof of how that statement is even remotely true (beyond "I heard a black person say it").

And with regards to the Willie Horton ad, for arguments sake , let's assume he is guilty of the crimes he was convicted of - the issue is not whether or not what Dukakis did was right (which, as I recall, was never even brought up in the presidential debates), but how the Bush Sr. campaign addressed it - by making ONE convict synonymous with the name Dukakis. It was not by addressing the issue directly, but rather by an aggresive advertising campaign that did nothing to address the issue of crime.



"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Lee Atwater was human slime who, when he was near death, openly regretted his mudslinging because he ruined people's lives.

But in his prime, Atwater was the one guy who realzied that politics was not a life-or-death enterprise; it's much more important than that.


    Originally posted by asteroidboy

    But why assert that Lott's getting unfairly singled out? Does that make what he said okay?


Because Lott is being singled out. And nobody on this board, and I mean NOBODY on either side of the political fence has condoned what he said.


    Originally posted by Leroy
    And with regards to the Willie Horton ad, for arguments sake , let's assume he is guilty of the crimes he was convicted of - the issue is not whether or not what Dukakis did was right (which, as I recall, was never even brought up in the presidential debates), but how the Bush Sr. campaign addressed it - by making ONE convict synonymous with the name Dukakis. It was not by addressing the issue directly, but rather by an aggresive advertising campaign that did nothing to address the issue of crime.

It's hard to assume Willie Horton is not guilty and saying that he may not be is pretty ludicrous. Never the less, using Willie Horton was a legitimate argument for Bush-Quayle to use because it showed that Massachusetts under Dukakis was letting convicted murderers run free when they shouldn't be, and that Dukakis was morally unqualified to be tough on crime as President.





What kind of disjointed society do we live in if Merry Christmas is Politically Incorrect?
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
Leroy: Black illegitimacy is much, much higher today than it was in the most vile, racist Jim Crow days, before LBJ's "Great Society." I'll look up some stats when I'm back from work. (I'm sure any of us could find them rather quickly).



Damn your eyes!
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.02
If he resigns I hope to see Hillary Clinton resign right behind him for all the anti-Jew statements she has made.

Huh? Look, even without specifics, I can tell you that there is absolutely no way you get elected to statewide office in New York if you make anything remotely close an anti-Jew statement. Criticizing Katz' corned beef if almost enough (thank you, my cousin Lenny Birnbaum will be here Tuesday!).

There are two points I'd like to point out in the whole Lott thing.

1) There are plenty of crazies who say dumb things out there. Jackson, Sharpton, whoever have put their foot in their mouth also. They are not elected officials, and they do not hold one of the 5 most powerful elected offices in the Nation. That's a big difference. And jeez, claiming that there's a double standard is ridiculous. You don't remember the flak Sharpton and Jackson got? It's why you remember this stuff 15 years later. THe difference is that they weren't asked to resign any elected position because THEY DON'T HOLD ANY ELECTED POSITION.

You'll get no arguement from me about Bryd though.

Also, that 48' campaign by Strom wasn't not one about anything but segregation. It's not like saying you wished Strom had won because of his innovative new ideas about economic growth, and that whole segregation thing was just an unfortunate, outdated side issue. It was a one-issue campaign. There is only one way to interpret Lott's comment, and that is that the nation would be better off if it hadn't been integrated. Now, regardless of the whys or howfors of how that statement came about, it's still ridiculous. And apologizing profusely just reinforces what a lot of people (including me) think is the real truth about the Southern GOP - when it comes to race, they say what people want to hear, not what they believe.

And PLEASE don't cry "censorship." There is nothing more repugnant than when conservatives start blubbering "censorship, censorship, PC Police" when people get mad at what they say, and want something done about it. Police have weapons they use to get you to do what thye want if you don't do it. Police are an arm of the government. No one is proposing Trent Lott get thrown in jail. No one is proposing that an armed squad of university professors and middle-aged Hollywood stars forcibly remove him from the Senate floor. Censorship is a government-sponsored abridging of free speech. Speaking out about what you want done about something is excersizing free speech, not censoring it. Trent Lott can say what he likes. And I (and Barbra Streisand) can say I think he shouldn't have his job because of it. And I can tell Republicans "if you keep this guy as your leader, I won't vote for you." And if the Republicans are sufficiently concerned about this, they'll remove the guy. This is all part of the participatory democratic process that distinguishes our country from Iran, not censorship.


(edited by MoeGates on 19.12.02 1112)

Liberals - Damn sexy chicks that aren't ashamed to put out in ways you didn't even know existed.
---real life bedroom experiences
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 480 days
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#29 Posted on
I might get flamed for this one, but why not: In a way, Trent was right in his comments (read on please). Since Blacks vote 92% for the Democratic Party, they do shift the votes in elections away from Republicans. Thus, if Strom was successful in '48 (and it was more than segregation that was the platform, the Democratic Party did split 3 ways in that election) that 92% voting for primarily liberal candidates would not be at the polls. From a pure power politics point of view, in Trent's mind he's right, as whichever Party had the alliance with the Southern states would have real control over the Senate (the fillibuster proof 60). FDR did benefit from this Southern Alliance pre-'48.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1430 days
Last activity: 338 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
"In 1988, fighting Dukakis, I said that I 'would strip the bark off the little bastard' and 'make Willie Horton his running mate.' I am sorry for both statements: the "Mostly I am sorry for the way I thought of other people. Like a good general, I had treated everyone who wasn't with me as against me." - Lee Atwater (http://www.coxnews.com/2000/columnists/tucker/12-03-00story5037.html)


And Grimmis, please let's not get into who's morally qualified to be "tough on crime" because then we'd have to talk about all the executions of retarded people in Texas that the current president presided over. A man who claimed to have had his heart touched by Christ, the ultimate paragon of forgiveness.

Palpatine, the REASON they used Willie Horton in that ad was to tap into people's fears of a marauding black man that Dukakis set loose. I never said he wasn't guilty. But you don't think his race was factored in? I'll be Lee Atwater did.



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me

Never been a Wiener of the Day

RFMC Vice President (I think)

redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 480 days
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#31 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    "In 1988, fighting Dukakis, I said that I 'would strip the bark off the little bastard' and 'make Willie Horton his running mate.' I am sorry for both statements: the "Mostly I am sorry for the way I thought of other people. Like a good general, I had treated everyone who wasn't with me as against me." - Lee Atwater (http://www.coxnews.com/2000/columnists/tucker/12-03-00story5037.html)


    And Grimmis, please let's not get into who's morally qualified to be "tough on crime" because then we'd have to talk about all the executions of retarded people in Texas that the current president presided over. A man who claimed to have had his heart touched by Christ, the ultimate paragon of forgiveness.

    Palpatine, the REASON they used Willie Horton in that ad was to tap into people's fears of a marauding black man that Dukakis set loose. I never said he wasn't guilty. But you don't think his race was factored in? I'll be Lee Atwater did.






Remember, the man who 'Feels Your Pain' had no problems executing retards in Arkansas even after winning a Presidential election.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 199 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#32 Posted on
Who's arguing over Lott's freedom of speech? Nobody has said that he doesn't have the right to say that. It's just the fact that a lot of people (read: Voters) in this country aren't all too keen about segregation. So in reality, there should be only four groups of people who care about this whole thing.

1) People who want the Republican agenda to advance.

2) People who don't want the Republican agenda to advance.

3) Voters who live in the state of Mississippi

4) People who always miss the "Might be a closeted rascist Senator from Mississippi" question in You Don't Know Jack.

If you don't fall into one of those categories, then the whole story is kind of wasted on you.

-Jag

Oh, and Grimis, about the Byrd thing as it relates to Trent Lott. The whole Trent Lott story sat for how long? A week? But a lot of liberals were up in arms about it and made a lot of noise. So are conservatives yelling and screaming about Byrd? Of course, even if they are, right now they'll just be accused of trying to draw heat off of Lott.



With poison running through your veins, and death marching solemnly towards you, heroic acts become more of a necessity as you see your time dwindling.

Vanquishing your enemies, making amends to those you have wronged, and leaving words of love and kindness for those around you become second nature as your own mortality looms

However, true strength lies not in these last desperate acts, but in the actions of one who has to get out of bed the next day and face the consequences of doing that which you believe is right.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1430 days
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by redsoxnation

      Originally posted by asteroidboy
      "In 1988, fighting Dukakis, I said that I 'would strip the bark off the little bastard' and 'make Willie Horton his running mate.' I am sorry for both statements: the "Mostly I am sorry for the way I thought of other people. Like a good general, I had treated everyone who wasn't with me as against me." - Lee Atwater (http://www.coxnews.com/2000/columnists/tucker/12-03-00story5037.html)


      And Grimmis, please let's not get into who's morally qualified to be "tough on crime" because then we'd have to talk about all the executions of retarded people in Texas that the current president presided over. A man who claimed to have had his heart touched by Christ, the ultimate paragon of forgiveness.

      Palpatine, the REASON they used Willie Horton in that ad was to tap into people's fears of a marauding black man that Dukakis set loose. I never said he wasn't guilty. But you don't think his race was factored in? I'll be Lee Atwater did.






    Remember, the man who 'Feels Your Pain' had no problems executing retards in Arkansas even after winning a Presidential election.



Ah, Clinton and his heavily compromised values. At least he doesn't look like a 12-year-old who gets to wear his daddy's suit.



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me

Never been a Wiener of the Day

RFMC Vice President (I think)

Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1270 days
Last activity: 1067 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Ah, Clinton and his heavily compromised values. At least he doesn't look like a 12-year-old who gets to wear his daddy's suit.

That sounds like the bitterness of an Ann Richards voter...

And if you want to talk about racist ads, how about the ads the NAACP ran against Bush trying to make Bush responsible for the Texas dragging deaths even though he put to death two of the three perps in that case?



What kind of disjointed society do we live in if Merry Christmas is Politically Incorrect?
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#35 Posted on
I find it so funny that the party that has done MORE to promote racism is so vehemantly attacking the party that has done the most to promote racial equality over the last 100 years for a misstatted comment!
Lets take a look at the facts...
Affirmitive Action? It is the very DEFINITION of racism!
Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and Jesse Jackson? As racist as they come. The so-called black leadership has not followed Dr. King's Dream in years. What was a noble idea, people being together as brothers and sisters, colorblind, has become "If you are black, you can do no wrong."
Harry Belafonte, speaking on behalf of Black Democrats everywhere? Calling Colin Powell a "House Nigger?" Meanwhile Powell, a black, holds the highest office a black man has ever held in the US government, is a Republican, nominated by a Republican.
Byrd? KKK?
Lets not forget that it was a Republican President in the first place who freed, and lead a war to ensure that blacks throughout the country were free of slavery.
I am through pretending this is about Lott. It stopped being about Lott on day 2. The man has apologized and begged forgiveness SEVEN TIMES. He agreed his statement is misguided, and he is taking steps to make sure that he is enlightened- real steps. The Democrats have turned this into one of their usual smear campaigns against Republicans. "See, see! They are a bunch of racists. RACISTS!"
The Democratic party has done more to draw racial lines, race-bait, devise policies to keep black voters "needy" so that they have a ready base of voters that they can "help," than anything the Republican party could or would dream of doing.
You want to throw up stats about the average salary of blacks, or how many are on welfare, and complain that racism still exists in the world? DEMOCRATS put them in that position. DEMOCRATS are the ones who shoved welfare down their throats. DEMOCRATS are the ones that will not let us tear down those race walls so that we can stop this whole "black man, white man" nonesense and just start treating people like men and women. And they hide it by bandying about the word Racist, because that is one of their "secret code words" as they call it that they use to energize their base.
Remember when the press was up in arms because the President dare challenge the patriotism of the Democrats in the Congress? "What an outrageous charge!" The press declared! Where are they NOW that the Democrats are throwing about the charge of Racism? Isn't that even MORE outrageous? Isn't that something that should be challenged?
I am sorry, the racism of the Democratic Party disgusts me. And they get away with it because they are in bed with the press, and the black voters who are being taken advantage of don't get a chance to see what snakes the party that is SUPPOSEDLY fighting for them really is...



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Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 199 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#36 Posted on
From the CNN article on Clinton in another thread.

"Meanwhile former Clinton political adviser and Democratic strategist James Carville said he accepted Lott's apology.

Carville, also a co-host of CNN's "Crossfire," faxed a letter to Lott's office Wednesday in which he both accepted the senator's apology and pledged not to criticize him further for comments made recently or further in the past on the issue of race.

Carville said his decision to send the letter was influenced at least in part by the comments of Democratic Rep. John Lewis of Georgia, a former civil rights leader, who accepted Lott's apology this week."

Now while Clinton is clearly attacking the Republican party, and some Democratic Senators were making noises about censuring Lott (which I think is stupid), most of the flak directed at Lott right now is coming from his own party.

-Jag



With poison running through your veins, and death marching solemnly towards you, heroic acts become more of a necessity as you see your time dwindling.

Vanquishing your enemies, making amends to those you have wronged, and leaving words of love and kindness for those around you become second nature as your own mortality looms

However, true strength lies not in these last desperate acts, but in the actions of one who has to get out of bed the next day and face the consequences of doing that which you believe is right.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1270 days
Last activity: 1067 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    Lets not forget that it was a Republican President in the first place who freed, and lead a war to ensure that blacks throughout the country were free of slavery.

Uh, let's not go down this road because realisitcally neither Republicans or Demcorats should be proud of what they did during the Civil War; Demcorats for supporting slavery and Republicans for superceeding the Constitution several times. What Lincoln did during the war isn't exactly something to be proud of, even if it did hold the country together.



What kind of disjointed society do we live in if Merry Christmas is Politically Incorrect?
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.02
Well, this is mostly because the Dems would love nothing better than for Trent Lott to stay majority leader under these circumstances. Heck, I'd love it.

Remember, the man who 'Feels Your Pain' had no problems executing retards in Arkansas even after winning a Presidential election.

Don't even get started about the Stars and Bars on the Arkansas state flag during Clinton's governorship there.

I am sorry, the racism of the Democratic Party disgusts me. And they get away with it because they are in bed with the press, and the black voters who are being taken advantage of don't get a chance to see what snakes the party that is SUPPOSEDLY fighting for them really is...

In some ways I agree with you, but I also thinks it's really insulting that you seem to think that you are so much smarter about this issue than 90% of black people. I mean, your issue isn't "we disagree," your issue is "They're so dumb they get taken advantage of and don't know what's good for them." I mean, goodness knows I disagree with the base of the Republican party about the issues, but I sure know that the GOP is better for say, the heads of big oil companies than the Dems





Liberals - Damn sexy chicks that aren't ashamed to put out in ways you didn't even know existed.
---real life bedroom experiences
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1430 days
Last activity: 338 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by asteroidboy
      Ah, Clinton and his heavily compromised values. At least he doesn't look like a 12-year-old who gets to wear his daddy's suit.

    That sounds like the bitterness of an Ann Richards voter...

    And if you want to talk about racist ads, how about the ads the NAACP ran against Bush trying to make Bush responsible for the Texas dragging deaths even though he put to death two of the three perps in that case?



Yes, that was a stupid ad. Stupider than Bush's decision not to support hate crimes legislation. Almost as stupid as Rick Perry accusing Tony Sanchez of involvement in the murder of a DEA agent. Don't act like the Republicans can't get nasty when they have to. Just ask John McCain how dirty Bush's henchmen can get.

And Ann Richards is more of an authentic Texan than George W. Bush could EVER hope to be, no matter how many denim shirts and cowboy hats he wears.



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me

Never been a Wiener of the Day

RFMC Vice President (I think)

Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1270 days
Last activity: 1067 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Don't act like the Republicans can't get nasty when they have to.

That's not being nasty. That's playing to win.



What kind of disjointed society do we live in if Merry Christmas is Politically Incorrect?
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Bravo! It illustrates the problems of ideology perfectly. With strong belief often comes smug self-righteousness. The first conclusion many thinkers come to is "I'm right".
- Fletch, Here's a good article (2002)
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