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19.4.14 1231
The W - Pro Wrestling - Torch: Vince anti-Dragon
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Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#1 Posted on
According to Rajah's, quoting the Torch:

"We have more information on Ultimo Dragon in WWE. Apparently, Vince McMahon has already grown sour on the superstar and does not approve of his style. Thus, the originally planned Rey Mysterio vs. Ultimo Dragon match for SummerSlam is off and the current plan is to pair Rey Mysterio against Billy Kidman for the Cruiserweight Title."

*heavy sigh*




"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 12 hours
#2 Posted on

    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    *heavy sigh*

*heavy weight dropped on Vince's head*

Grrr!



fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3075 days
Last activity: 3075 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
Would it have been too much to ask that they watched maybe one of Ultimo's matches BEFORE they signed him? You know, so they knew exactly what they were getting.

And when Billy Kidman gets your push, you know you're in trouble. :)
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 54 min.
#4 Posted on
At least Ultimo Dragon has already accomplished everything he claimed he wanted to do in the WWE, that being to wrestle in Madison Square Garden. About the only other thing he could actually accomplish in the WWE that would add anything to his career is to become the WWE champion and I don't think anyone ever considered that even a remote possibility. So, while it sucks that Dragon supposedly won't be getting a push, at least he accomplished one of his dreams and is presumably getting paid decently to boot.
OndaGrande
Kolbasz








Since: 1.5.03
From: California, Home of THE LAKERS!

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 28 min.
#5 Posted on

but is anyone REALLY surprised given Vince's total mishandling of nearly every cruiserweight ever? Fuck Vince, right up his ass, about this at least I say. I know that usually at least 30 percent of the product will actually be acceptable despite him, and he has done some good things, but I still think that overall he has his head firmly corked up his own ass.



LEARN IT, KNOW IT, LIVE IT!
CANADIAN BULLDOG
Andouille








Since: 5.3.03
From: TORONTO

Since last post: 359 days
Last activity: 357 days
ICQ:  
#6 Posted on
Two things to say:

Kidman/Mysterio simply makes more sense for SummerSlam. That's the way they've been building this storyline for well over a month now, and all signs seem to point to that being the likely matchup.

As for Dragon's style, I kind of agree that he doesn't look terrific in there... not yet, at least. I'm not overly familiar with his work in WCW or elsewhere, so just judging on the few bouts I've seen so far.

He does some spectacular moves, but they all look like kind of clunky and spot-spot-spot in there. Look at the way Rey has been since he started, he had an awesome match with Angle right off the bat, and proved he could hang with the big boys.

I hope I'm wrong about Ultimo, that's just the vibe I get so far. So changing it to Kidman-Mysterio makes perfect sense to me, with 'Slam only a month away.



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madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2109 days
Last activity: 2102 days
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#7 Posted on
But didn't Vince know he was getting a guy coming out of retirement, a la Shawn Michaels?
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 17 hours
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#8 Posted on
HOw does Ultimo Dragon put on a match with one of the big boys right off the bat unless he gets a match against one of the big boys. Besides, Mysterio getting a good match out of Angle isn't a big accomplishment, who doesn't have a good match with Angle?

If you ask me, Ultimo's style would be better off against guys like Kanyon, Benoit, Eddie and even Tajiri than Mysterio, Noble, Shannon Moore, and Kidman.



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THAT IS AWESOME!
madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2109 days
Last activity: 2102 days
AIM:  
#9 Posted on
In fact, it was sad that Ultimo's debut came so close to Kidman's return. I think fans would've gotten behind a Rey Misterio-Ultimo Dragon tag team just as much as they did Rey & Kidman...
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3013 days
Last activity: 2717 days
#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOG
    Two things to say:

    Kidman/Mysterio simply makes more sense for SummerSlam. That's the way they've been building this storyline for well over a month now, and all signs seem to point to that being the likely matchup.

    As for Dragon's style, I kind of agree that he doesn't look terrific in there... not yet, at least. I'm not overly familiar with his work in WCW or elsewhere, so just judging on the few bouts I've seen so far.

    He does some spectacular moves, but they all look like kind of clunky and spot-spot-spot in there. Look at the way Rey has been since he started, he had an awesome match with Angle right off the bat, and proved he could hang with the big boys.

    I hope I'm wrong about Ultimo, that's just the vibe I get so far. So changing it to Kidman-Mysterio makes perfect sense to me, with 'Slam only a month away.



OMG, I agree with the Bulldog! Dragon has not really blown me away in any match he has been in. With that said, Vince should have known that Dragon's best days were far, far behind him and not wasted the money to get him if he wasn't pleased with his style. I mean, I remember him in WCW, and this seems like a totally different wrestler. For everyone bitching about cruiserweights not getting pushes, it seems that Rey, Kidman, Eddie, and Noble have been getting plenty of airtime. I don't think it is any coincidence that they are the best workers as well.



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madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2109 days
Last activity: 2102 days
AIM:  
#11 Posted on
Not to nitpick, but I wouldn't consider Eddie Guerrero a cruiserweight...of course, you could've mentioned Tajiri...

Still, Vince must have been hiring based upon Ultimo Dragon's name rather than intimate knowledge of what he was capable of. But what we should be doing is bringing him along slowly anyway. That's why putting him in a tag team, or giving him an angle based around SE, might have been a better way to go...
The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 1826 days
Last activity: 1557 days
#12 Posted on
Did anyone see Ultimo Dragon's match last night with Kanyon on Sunday Night Heat? It was only four minutes but it was good, and better than Noble/Gunn, Stephanie/Sable, McMahon/Gowen, and that stupid bar room brawl. That's like half your Vengeance card right there.




"Just a humble bounty hunter, ma'am."
-Spike Spiegel
uberlou
Merguez








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, Cali

Since last post: 1430 days
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#13 Posted on
I saw a similar report on LoP but the reasoning being Ultimo doesn't look "stiff" and "realistic" enough. And that he's light and is working too lucha or something.

I don't know, but that sounds a little stupid to me. If they wanted someone who looks "stiff" and "realistic", you would think they would've signed someone like Low-Ki already. Also, the thing is, Ultimo's style isn't much like Rey's. I mean they're both heavily lucha influenched but I don't think Dragon springboard's all over the place like Rey does.

How did Rey start out? Just being put on Smackdown weekly and having cool matches, right? We've gotten a much smaller dose of Ultimo right now than we did with Rey when he started. I don't think the casual fans will jump on the Ultimo bandwagon as quick as they did with Rey, but in due time, I think Ultimo will find his stride. I, myself, enjoyed the Guerrero/Ultimo match in the US tourney a few weeks ago, for what it was. We've barely seen Ultimo on our screens so I also find it hard to judge his current performance. Give him more matches and a little more time before calling this one a disappointment, I'd say to WWE.





darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 3509 days
Last activity: 3509 days
#14 Posted on
Dragon's got a pretty nice win/loss record for somebody who's supposedly hated...but I guess this explains why he's low on the card and still doing dark matches.
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 12 hours
#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by GrubbyLongJohns
    How did Rey start out? Just being put on Smackdown weekly and having cool matches, right? We've gotten a much smaller dose of Ultimo right now than we did with Rey when he started. I don't think the casual fans will jump on the Ultimo bandwagon as quick as they did with Rey, but in due time, I think Ultimo will find his stride.

One little bit of difference (and you know I'm an Ultimo supporter), on Rey's debut show he was also booked to interfere in the main event cage match with a big "Holy Shit" spot. He was then put over by Cole as part of the "future of Smackdown". They've yet to give UD a moment like that.

Not saying they won't, though.



BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3191 days
Last activity: 3100 days
ICQ:  
#16 Posted on
So this means what exactly? That Dragon is going to spend most of his time on Velocity after his initial few appearances, being brought out every now and then when they need a cruiserweight for something?

Raise your hand if this surprises you...
YossinoIC
Cotechino








Since: 28.6.03
From: Massachusetts

Since last post: 3871 days
Last activity: 3661 days
AIM:  
#17 Posted on
I agree with the sentiment that Dragon hasn't looked too good in the ring so far. It's obvious he hasn't been given a proper match/worker to showcase his talents, but I'm getting the feeling he might never get that match. What we're getting now seems to be Vince's vision of what Dragon should be.

As far as his style goes, Dragon was never flashy in the sense of crazy highspots (like Rey). He's more "flashy" in the sense of being ultra-quick in the ring and executing moves. IMO, it seems like his little standing sliced bread #2 was given to him as opposed to created by him. The thing is just stupid and contrived - he should be using the Dragon Sleeper (screw UT). Maybe he could bust out his old Corkscrew Splash to make his own "Holy Shit" moment.





You Never Majored in Huganomics
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
#18 Posted on
Isn’t this the same type of gossipy “news” item that (almost) always gets trashed by people around here? Is it because it has to do with a Net fave that people are putting any stock into this? Seems like a nice bit of tabloid reporting to me.

Has anybody even considered that maybe (just MAYBE), they’re not ready to put Dragon on screen full-time? Maybe they pushed his debut up a few weeks just so he can get his MSG fix, because who’s to say that he’ll be around come WMXX? And if he is around, great – I’ll pay really good money to see Rey-Dragon then. If you had to choose between: a) having him on every single week, maybe winning, maybe losing, or b) have him make sparse appearances so that when WWE is ready for him, he won’t be tainted by a potentially bad W-L record, what would you choose?
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 3509 days
Last activity: 3509 days
#19 Posted on
Maybe he's not looking so good because he can't just tag in YOSSINO or give the "hey, I trained YOU" look to his students?

And besides, I think maybe vince is a bit more wary of pushing "legends from other promotions" now...
ExtremeLuchador
Salami








Since: 8.6.02
From: La Arena del Treno

Since last post: 2214 days
Last activity: 1279 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.20
Gotta love those magic backstage passes.



Triple H's Theme
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I hunger for control, That why I'm with Stephanie
It's all about the lame,and Vince has gotta pay me... I am the lame... you don't want to like me... I want control
I used to do Joanie... I am Kev's bitch... But people still hate me
I am the lame... and Zenk is going to flame me
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No change to the opening credits, so we’re still stuck seeing Johnny B Badd and Hulk Hogan despite the fact neither guy will ever appear on this show again (or in Hogan’s case, for the first time).
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