The W
Views: 100741375
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
22.11.14 1926
The W - Pro Wrestling - Top 100 of all time
This thread has 139 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: 1 2 Next(9832 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (30 total)
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 60 days
Last activity: 60 days
#1 Posted on
If this thread has been done, my apologies first off.

I was surfing the Observer site, and I saw the list that John Molinaro, Jeff Marek and Dave Meltzer made for the book. Here it is:

1. Ric Flair
2. Lou Thesz
3. Rikidozan
4. Antonio Inoki
5. Hulk Hogan
6. Andre the Giant
7. El Santo
8. Giant Baba
9. Steve Austin
10. Buddy Rogers
11. Frank Gotch
12. Jim Londos
13. Ed “Strangler” Lewis
14. Stan Hansen
15. Bruno Sammartino
16. The Rock
17. Gorgeous George
18. Bruiser Brody
19. Riki Choshu
20. Mitsuharu Misawa
21. Verne Gagne
22. Jumbo Tsuruta
23. Terry Funk
24. Mil Mascaras
25. Bret Hart
26. Dory Funk, Jr.
27. Satoru Sayama
28. Blue Demon
29. Perro Aguayo
30. Nick Bockwinkel
31. Dusty Rhodes
32. Johnny Valentine
33. Freddie Blassie
34. Vader
35. George Hackenschmidt
36. Jushin Liger
37. Toshiaki Kawada
38. Keiji Muto
39. Jack Brisco
40. Harley Race
41. El Hijo del Santo
42. Tatsumi Fujinami
43. Danny Hodge
44. Akira Maeda
45. Chigusa Nagayo
46. Ricky Steamboat
47. Shawn Michaels
48. Shinya Hashimoto
49. Ray Stevens
50. Randy Savage
51. Gene Kiniski
52. Nobuhiko Takada
53. Mick Foley
54. Genichiro Tenryu
55. The Crusher
56. Dick the Bruiser
57. El Canek
58. Antonino Rocca
59. The Sheik
60. Don Leo Jonathan
61. Dynamite Kid
62. The Undertaker
63. El Solitario
64. Superstar Billy Graham
65. Jerry Lawler
66. Roddy Piper
67. Ultimo Dragon
68. Billy Robinson
69. Jaguar Yokota
70. Lioness Asuka
71. Bobo Brazil
72. Karl Gotch
73. Bert Assirati
74. Gori Guerrero
75. Bill Longson
76. Killer Kowalski
77. Mildred Burke
78. Abdullah the Butcher
79. “Destroyer” Dick Beyer
80. Atsushi Onita
81. Ted DiBiase
82. Earl McCready
83. Pat O’Connor
84. Fritz Von Erich
85. Wahoo McDaniel
86. “Whipper” Billy Watson
87. Leroy McGuirk
88. Mad Dog Vachon
89. Yvon Robert
90. Bronko Nagurski
91. Dos Caras
92. Edouard Carpentier
93. Rayo de Jalisco, Sr.
94. Stanislaus Zbyszko
95. Sting
96. Pat Patterson
97. Masahiro Chono
98. Dara Singh
99. Jesse Ventura
100. Eddie Graham


- I'm shocked that Ventura is on this list. From what I remember, he wasn't that great of a wrestler, and not much of a draw. He's more influencial for what he after he wrestled.


- I actually think that the Rock is too low. He's probably the biggest crossover star that the Fed has ever produced.

- As much as I love Ultimo Dragon, there's no way he should be on this list.

- As much as I hate him, Shawn Michaels is too low at 47, although he's not much of a draw.

- I don't know why, but Steve Austin at 9 just seems too..... high. I know why's he there and I can even understand a case for making him higher, but I can't shake this feeling that he shouldn't be that high.






By the way, Storm's gimmick includes 1.) telling the audience to shut up, and 2.) occasionally making everyone stand for the Canadian national anthem. You know they don't know what to do with a wrestler when he's making fans stand for a national anthem. It's like waving a white flag and saying, "This guy has no personality -- we give up."

ESPN's Bill Simmons
Promote this thread!
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 335 days
Last activity: 23 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96

    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    25. Bret Hart
    86. “Whipper” Billy Watson
    88. Mad Dog Vachon
    89. Yvon Robert
    92. Edouard Carpentier



They got the token Canadians down...but WHERE'S STU???

He essentially trained 90% of the wrestlers that workrate fans clamor for, so you could argue that Stu Hart invented workrate. Couldn't ya? So where is he?

Good list, though.



"I know something that will cheer you up, Wesley"
"Are you programmed to be thinking what I'm thinking?"
"MAKEOVER!!"
Princical Scudworth & Mr. Butlertron; Clone High
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3292 days
Last activity: 3292 days
#3 Posted on
Everybody knows who Jesse Ventura is though even if a lot of that is from him being Governor. He also had a big influence on the heel color commentator role.

I think The Rock would be higher in a list say 5 or 10 years from now but its too early to judge whether he's gonna make it in Hollywood or not. And unfortunatly, I don't think he's that huge of a wrestling draw anymore. His TWO returns to Smackdown didn't move the numbers at all.

Shawn Michaels was a great worker for such a short span of time. Combine that with his immature behavior and lack of drawing power and I think he's about where he belongs.

I think Austin's ranking is about where it should be. He turned WWF around. You can argue his run was short but he was on TV/PPV's so much more then Hogan or Flair during their big runs that it's hard to compare era's. The era we live in now, one year is almost like 5 years in the 80's.

It should be noted that the criteria for the list were drawing power, impact/influence on the business, and workrate.
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 3 min.
Last activity: 3 min.
AIM:  
#4 Posted on
Lists like this are really subjective and stupid.

I could say that Hulk Hogan was my number one and I'd be no more right or wrong than Dave is for listing Flair at the top. The only difference is, Meltzer's got a book deal and I don't.



Satire 03/03/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.16 gets a 7.65372 Andrew is funny, but I'm not sure that we needed "The Andrew Episode".
Super Shane Spear
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

Since last post: 1622 days
Last activity: 1622 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Question: Where the F is Gorilla Monsoon?



Ever since The Rock came into town
Everyone's tried to bring him down
Canadians have no class
That's why they can kiss The People's Ass.


The Rock is bigger than Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks
But yet he's got to deal with these Long Island skanks!
He'll whip Austin's ass you know
And that's the bottom line cause the Rock sa-i-d so!

Socks
Landjager








Since: 25.6.02
From: Ottawa

Since last post: 852 days
Last activity: 465 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21
Question #2

Why is VADER even on that list?



How much wood can a wood chuck chuck, if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
Scott Summets
Sujuk








Since: 27.6.02

Since last post: 3936 days
Last activity: 3904 days
#7 Posted on
If Angle comes back at the same rate he was at before, in 5 years he would HAVE to be in the top 50 of this list....



RIP Curt Hennig: Yeah, they call me a redneck, but you know---that's a beautiful thing!

You don't get it boy, this isn't a mudhole... it's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon.
Something tells me to stop with the leg. I don't listen to it.
But where in the world is there in the world
A man so extroardinaire?

C'est moi, c'est moi, I'm forced to admit!
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 8 min.
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by Socks
    Question #2

    Why is VADER even on that list?



If they insist on putting Vader on the list, how can they possibly put him above George Hackenschmidt? Hack should definately be higher.

I don't see how you can leave Moolah off if you're including other women.

Taker should probably be a bit higher, and I agree that Monsoon ought to be on their somewhere.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 39 days
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by Socks
    Question #2

    Why is VADER even on that list?


Isn't Vader generally considered one of the best big men ever? Jeez, Abdullah the Butcher is on the list, so why shouldn't Vader?



Matthew: You would've loved it, David. A week in a foreign country, strange people, strange customs...
Dave: Oh, I know what you mean. I've been to Canada.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3292 days
Last activity: 3292 days
#10 Posted on
Vader has had tons of longevity for a big man and drawn all over the world. Plus he was considered the best big man in the business for many years. Heck I remember him carrying THE BOSS to good matches in WCW.
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 3018 days
Last activity: 3015 days
#11 Posted on
why shouldn't Ultimo Dragon be on the list? He is only perhaps the most entertaining wrestler ever, and basically created the modern cruiserweight style. I guess he's not Canadian, so he must suck.



Jersey Is Dead - Feel my Grief

Weekly Visitor
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#12 Posted on
I agree, lists like these are pretty subjective and stupid. I mean, what's the difference between a wrestler and a manager in terms of greatness?

For goodness' sake: Heenan's not on the list. And Hogan, a man who has main evented for 20+ years and was on every posible media outlet BEFORE wrestling was chic (old fans: tell me a wrestler than went mainstream before Hogan, since a guy I'll name in a minute, is below several other guys, including Flair, who is a darn good wrestler and The Man, but doesn't compare to Hogan as far as the top. Hogan's more influential, has more staying power, has sold more merchandise, and to a large percentage of casual fans and non-fans, he's the only wrestler's name they know.

The other guy I want to talk about is Bronko Nagurski. Trust me. Wrestling as we know it wouldn't exist without him. Bronko was the first mainstream wrestler (and there were a lot until about '58 or so), but he's THE REASON wrestling got on TV on the 50s and THE REASON you and I know about guys like Lou Thesz and Gorgeous George. He should be near the top instead of near the bottom.

Like I said, it's subjective. As I have said many times, wrestling's about good stories, which is one of the reasons I liked Bruiser and Crusher back in the day. Two old goofs may not have been workrate geniuses in the ring, but the cigars told the tale. They rocked. Same for some guys around today who can make the stories move. Rock. Austin. That Damn Jericho. Angle. And guess what. Still Hogan. Huh.

Benoit. Brock. Eddy. Good wrestlers.






We'll be back as soon as order is restored.....
magicdoc
Bauerwurst








Since: 26.8.02
From: Bossier City Louisiana

Since last post: 2663 days
Last activity: 2663 days
ICQ:  
#13 Posted on
Wahoo McDaniel 85? Fritz Von Erich 84? Whoever did this list needs killing - bigtime




Quoth the Warrior: "thinking is hard, yes."
Mild Mannered Madman
Toulouse








Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 500 days
Last activity: 218 days
#14 Posted on
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    I agree, lists like these are pretty subjective and stupid. I mean, what's the difference between a wrestler and a manager in terms of greatness?

    For goodness' sake: Heenan's not on the list. And Hogan, a man who has main evented for 20+ years and was on every posible media outlet BEFORE wrestling was chic (old fans: tell me a wrestler than went mainstream before Hogan,



El Santo, Antonio Inoki, and Rikidozan. Inoki was SO much bigger than Hogan. And he still is.


(edited by Mild Mannered Madman on 5.3.03 1621)



I have a special friend. He's the baby Jesus and I love him and...and...he don't give me no s**t and he don't f**k around and he's just the f**king coolest guy and I wanna say I love the baby Jesus.I can't say enough.I love the baby Jesus and I think...he's the best thing and he's really great when he shares his love for everbody.You know what I mean?I can't even see a manger without thinkin' about him,eh?I just love the Jesus.I've only been into him for a couple of hours though,but I'm really into him.
--
Bruce McCulloch
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 3018 days
Last activity: 3015 days
#15 Posted on
yeah, Inoki owns Japan. There's Inoki condoms.



Weekly Visitor - EXXXXTREME MARCH!

Jersey Is Dead - Feel my Grief
stretchplum
Braunschweiger








Since: 2.5.02
From: North South

Since last post: 4190 days
Last activity: 4162 days
#16 Posted on
"I agree, lists like these are pretty subjective and stupid."

Having an opinion and coming to a consensus with criteria, comparison and analysis to back it up is stupid? How so? Do you have an aversion to using your brain when the topic of pro-wrestling comes up?

I love it how fanboys deride lists like these for being subjective (no crap) all the while basing their whining on not having their favorites where they should be.

"They rocked. Same for some guys around today who can make the stories move. Rock. Austin. That Damn Jericho. Angle. And guess what. Still Hogan. Huh.

"Benoit. Brock. Eddy. Good wrestlers."

And this implies what exactly? Being a great wrestler coincides with not being able to tell a great story? I dont know if you noticed but the "story" usually ends up being told in the ring when its all said and done. It's been that way for a good while now.

Brock aint in Chris and Eddy's league BTW...
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by stretchplum

    Having an opinion and coming to a consensus with criteria, comparison and analysis to back it up is stupid? How so?
    Do you have an aversion to using your brain when the topic of pro-wrestling comes up?



Let me explain to you what subjectivity is. The reason I am explaining is that, apparently, you don't know the meaning of the word.

"Proceding from or taking place within an individual's mind and unaffected by the outside world. Particular to a particular individual; personal"

You see, evaluation of "greatness," whether it be in pro wrestling, or in "fan-boy" posts, is subjective. There are no concrete measures here. Flair, a hell of an entertainer and quite a wrestler, will never be at the top of my list because he chose to labor in a fairly minor league (compared to the WWF) for most of his career. Not so for Hogan (a hell of an entertainer, but not nearly the wrestler Flair was) during his.

You could make the same comparison between Georgeous George and Lou Thesz. While George was on TV multiple times a week in NYC and other larger cities on the east coast, Lou was laborng in smaller markets. Was Lou the better wrestler? Sure. Should he be higher on the list? It's subjective.

Now, take Benoit and Eddy and Brock and Angle. It is my contention that neither Eddy nor Benoit will ever be consistant main eventers (although I think Eddy's got a better chance than Chris). Why? They are both excellent wrestlers. They both take good bumps and make their opponents look good, while also looking as if they are tough sons of bitches themselves.

But they got a problem. Benoit can't talk. See ya. Midcarder for life. Upper midcard, admittedly. Good guy. Eddy, well, his stuff's always been too ethnic. I can't think of a consistantly ethnic (be it latino, african-american, or polish) main eventer. Rock's obviously an african american, but it was after Nation of Domination was over that he came to the main event. I think as long as Eddy stays "latino heat" he'll stay in the midcard. Again, upper mid.

Brock's got that something. Like Hogan, he doesn't have to be a great wrestler (although he's better than Hogan ever was). He needs to speak better. But the look, the presence. Like Goldberg, he looks like a main eventer. Was goldberg great? eh. Minor league. He pulls the same kind of reaction in the big leagues and I might change my tune on him.

and Angle? He's what Flair would have been if he's been in the big leagues all those years. Give me 7-10 more years and he goes over both Ric and Terry on my list.

and to the Mild Mannered Madman:

El Santo, Antonio Inoki, and Rikidozan

Sure. But, as I said, subjectivity: I never saw El Santo, although I have heard tons about him. So, yeah, I gotta give him props. But above You Know Who? Maybe Inoki. He was a big influence. But not that much in my country. He just went up against Ali. Hogan went up against Rocky. Which one had the higher buy rate?




We'll be back as soon as order is restored.....
stretchplum
Braunschweiger








Since: 2.5.02
From: North South

Since last post: 4190 days
Last activity: 4162 days
#18 Posted on
"Let me explain to you what subjectivity is. The reason I am explaining is that, apparently, you don't know the meaning of the word."

*rolls eyes*

You dismissed the credibility of the list based on the inherent fact that it was "subjective". As if this was some earth shattering revelation. Of course it's an opinion. Are you that obtuse to assume anyone would think otherwise? An opinion's worth is only as good as the person giving it. And quite frankly judging from youre posts I'm inclined to give Dave Meltzer's opinion on the matter the time of day before yours. Its the same old "if it didn't happen in the NY vacuum it doesn't count in the world of pro-wrestling" babble. Do you even know who Rikidozan was?
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#19 Posted on

    Originally posted by stretchplum
    "Let me explain to you what subjectivity is. The reason I am explaining is that, apparently, you don't know the meaning of the word."

    *rolls eyes*

    You dismissed the credibility of the list based on the inherent fact that it was "subjective". As if this was some earth shattering revelation. Of course it's an opinion. Are you that obtuse to assume anyone would think otherwise? An opinion's worth is only as good as the person giving it. And quite frankly judging from youre posts I'm inclined to give Dave Meltzer's opinion on the matter the time of day before yours. Its the same old "if it didn't happen in the NY vacuum it doesn't count in the world of pro-wrestling" babble. Do you even know who Rikidozan was?



Not at all. But it sure as heck alters the influential status of something. I don't dismiss the list. But It IS subjective. That was MY point in the 1st place. Sure, I'd rank Hogan, or maybe Inoki 1st. That'd be me. Cause they were (and are) the guys people think about when you say "Pro Wrestling" in their respective societies. But can Ric be 1st on yours, or for that matter, the man with the book contract? Sure.

and Rikidozan? Yeah, he was the Man in Japan. Kind of the Bronko Nagurski of Japan. That is, without him, we wouldn't have Puro wrestling, in the same way I believe we wouldn't have American Wrestling in the way it is. Inoki was his protege, I believe. Was he more influential than Nagurski, or Lou Thesz. I suspect they were about equal.

I'd be super interested in share ratings from the days when Thesz and George and others were on TV and then the ones from now. I supect the 50's stuff got higher shares. But, geeze.It was the only thing on. Would that have happened with out Thesz and George. Nope. Would Thesz and George have been around without Nagurski? Nope. Ergo, Nagurski outtrumps Thesz.

Now, flash forward to the 70s. Wrestling's almost off TV. There are local shows. AWA in the midwest. FCW in the southeast. WWWF in the northeast. Other promotions all over. And then Jim Crockett and Vince Jr decide to go back to the level of the 50s on TV. Who really captured America during the 80s revitalization of wrestling. I ask you. Honestly now. Would wrestling have more than 4 hours a week on mainstream, prime time cable and broadcast (and recently, as much as 8 hrs) if it weren't for what happened in the mid-80s WWF? Could Ric's NWA/WCW have carried the ball? Be honest, and I will accept whatever you come up with.

My subjective and personal answer: Nope. Hogan trumps Flair. Just my opinion.



We'll be back as soon as order is restored.....
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3292 days
Last activity: 3292 days
#20 Posted on
The list isn't just based purely on the most influential wrestler. It's the Top 100 GREATEST wrestlers of all-time. Influence was just one of the criteria.

The reasoning behind putting Flair first ahead of the others is that while he wasn't as big of a draw, he was still a huge drawing card as the NWA World Champion. When Ric Flair came to town, it would be the difference between drawing 2,000 and 12,000. So he was a big draw. Not the biggest but a big draw. He was very influential on the WRESTLERS themselves. Pretty much every heel tries to be Ric Flair. Every stable tries to be the Four Horsemen.

But influence on the business was just one of the factors. Flair trumps the others in terms of workrate and mic skills.

You can believe there wouldn't be American wrestling without Bronko Nagurski but comparing Rikidozan's influence on Puro to Bronko Nagurski is a joke. Professional wrestling in ANY FORM literally did not exist in Japan before Rikidozan brought it there. There was no such thing in Japan. Rikidozan saw a defeated country that needed heroes and that's how he wove professional wrestling into the Japanese culture.

Rikidozan and even Inoki are mainstream role models, icons, legends in Japan. Hulk Hogan is a mainstream punchline in the United States.
Pages: 1 2 Next
Pages: 1 2 NextThread ahead: Bad News About 'Mania (that does not involve Kurt Angle)
Next thread: Better Roster
Previous thread: Possible Brock/Benoit/Angle plans for 'Mania.
(9832 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
I remember that. Batista was involved, I want to say against La Resistance, but that doesn't sound right. I am sure you have the stips right:
- CEOIII, Smackdown 01-04-08 (2008)
The W - Pro Wrestling - Top 100 of all timeRegister and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.43 seconds.