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The W - Random - Tom Clancy
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El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
I just finished reading the Bear and the Dragon, and all I have to say is "wow". This brings me up to five Clancy novels read, and I was blown away by the quality of all of them. So far I've read;


Patriot Games
The Sum of All Fears
Debt of Honor
Executive Orders
The Bear and the Dragon


For those who read Clancy, I have a couple of questions. Which book should I read next? Which is your favorite?

(I have no idea how this double posted =\

(edited by El Nastio on 19.1.03 1022)


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IPowerbombedKidman
Chorizo








Since: 5.7.02
From: Ft. Worth Texas

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#2 Posted on
I would suggest the Hunt for Red October, its the only one I've read, but it is ten times better than the movie IMO.



(edited by IPowerbombedKidman on 19.1.03 1523)


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Bizzle Izzle
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Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

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#3 Posted on
I loved 'Red Storm Rising' back when I read it. It has nothing to do with the Jack Ryan world though, it's its own isolated story.

And if you like Clark, you might want to check out 'Without Remorse'. It's all about him and his early days.




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EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 5 days
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#4 Posted on
Its been a while since I've read his stuff, (so I haven't read his more recent works), but I'd start reading them in chronological order. I think the order goes:

Red Storm Rising
Cardinal In the Kremlin
Hunt for Red October
Patriot Games
Clear and Present Danger
Sum of All Fears
Executive Orders
Without Remorse

that's about where I stopped, and I wouldn't be surprised if I misplaced a book or two or forgot something. Also, my personal favorite is Clear and Present Danger. Also, as pointed out, Without Remorse is about early Clark, so it occurs earlier in the Clancy-verse, although I forget when exactly. I suggest reading them in order if only because several supporting characters tend to appear and develop and climb the proverbial ladder with Ryan. I think specifically of Mancuso, who was the US Sub Captain (was that the Dallas?) in Red October, who goes on to become the Commander of the Atlantic Fleet, or something like that, in one of the later books. Again, its been a while, so I apologize if my hazy memory resulted in any factual errors.



High tide for the time being.
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#5 Posted on
Heres the order the books happen

1. Without Remorse (This is the story of John Clark, Jack Ryan doesnt appear but his father does)

2. Patrot Games

3.Red Rabbit

4. The Hunt for Red October

5. Cardinal of the Kremlin

6. Clear and present danger

7. The sum of all fears.

8. Debt of Honor

9. Executive orders

10. Rainbow six (This takes place in the Ryan universe as Clark and Chavez set up the RAINBOW anti-terror team, but for some reason Jack is never mentioned by name. Im guessing it had something to do with the game but Im probably way off.)

11. Bear and the Dragon


Red Storm Rising isnt a Jack Ryan book, its a totally seperate book about a War with the Soviets.


I would recommend to definitely pick up Hunt for Red October as thats the best for me. Cardinal is also very good. I would probably recommend Cardinal next because you can meet three major players in the later novels, Sergey Golovko and Ed and Mary Pat Foley. Its really cool how Jack and Sergey become friends. I really didnt like Without remorse but you may. Dude just get em all...lol. Every one of them is really good.







Ya know how we do it, big balling and big blingin'....
joejoe
Weisswurst








Since: 9.1.03
From: NJ, USA

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#6 Posted on
Didn't a Clancy book actually feature terrorists crashing a plane into the WTC before it happened?
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#7 Posted on
A Japanese-American commercial pilot was pissed that his son died in a Japan vs. American military episode, so he flew his plane into the Capitol Building at the start of the State of the Union Address, obliterating Congress and most of the Government. I think that's what you're thinking of.

Thanks for correcting my history. I personally liked Without Remorse, although I never understood how Clark could look all raggedy at night (with lots of stubble, from what I remember), and be clean shaven in the day. Did his hair grow that quickly?



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Scott Summets
Sujuk








Since: 27.6.02

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#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    A Japanese-American commercial pilot was pissed that his son died in a Japan vs. American military episode, so he flew his plane into the Capitol Building at the start of the State of the Union Address, obliterating Congress and most of the Government. I think that's what you're thinking of.

    Thanks for correcting my history. I personally liked Without Remorse, although I never understood how Clark could look all raggedy at night (with lots of stubble, from what I remember), and be clean shaven in the day. Did his hair grow that quickly?



Maybe he is related to Jericho? But for Rockdotcom's point about Rainbow Six, they do mention Jack, just not by name like you said, which was odd. There were times they talked about knowing the President and stuff, which I assumed was Ryan at that point in the Clancyverse.



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The Big Kat
Kishke








Since: 11.1.02
From: Austin, TX

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#9 Posted on
I love all of Clancy's novels. I think my favorite is Executive Orders or Debt of Honor. But they are all great. And I would read Red October or Rainbow Six next.

I did think it was a little weird that he wrote Red Rabbit, not a prequel or a sequel, just stuck in the middle of his timeline. So we're supposed to think that as much as Jack Ryan flashes back in all the other novels, he never even mentions any of the events from Rabbit? Doesn't really matter, though, I still read those books all the time.



-The Big Kat
When you're tired of wishing on a falling star, you gotta put your faith in a loud guitar. -KISS
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 76 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87

    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    I would probably recommend Cardinal next because you can meet three major players in the later novels, Sergey Golovko and Ed and Mary Pat Foley. Its really cool how Jack and Sergey become friends. I really didnt like Without remorse but you may.
Technically, Jack Ryan does appear in Without Remorse, as one scene describes Emmit Ryan at the table pondering the case, and Jack has just told him he is joining the Marines, asking, "What falls out of the sky?" (trouble). Also, Red October is referred to in Cardinal a few times, but probably not enough to mess you up any if you were to read it before THFRO.

I was thinking that eventually Clancy might do a "Without Remorse" type book about Ritter, which would take place before Without Remorse. I know in at least two of the JR books, they talk about Ritter's rep being made by bringing an agent out of Bulgaria....just sounds like a good story. Clancy has so many likeable charcters that seem to pop up in every new novel that he could probably do great books after Ryan is no longer a character.



"You know Monsoon, I am impressed, and I don't impress easy"
-Jesse "The Body" Ventura

"Bob Ryder sucks" - Me.
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3535 days
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#11 Posted on
Good Lord, you liked the Dragon and the Bear? That was crap along wiht Executive Orders. I loved Clancy's early stuff like everything before Executive Orders, but his new stuff is garbage. I feel like every time Clancy writes, I feel like I'm trying to read the dictionary hearing him speak is no better, its like the world was better during the Regan era or worse the 50s. I think the man has finally lost it after Clinton became President, I don't think he could handle a long stance of peace without an immediate threat.
Thats at least my theory on why he sucks now?

The best movie out of them is Red October where they almost get everything straight from the book and Sean Connery is in it, so it can't suck. Patriot Games was a letdown at the end since the book had this great battle scene, but the movie's end was just a boat chase with bad editing. Clear and Present was ok, but it lacked some of the better qualities such as the Senators that brought down the President. I didn't even bother with Sums, it looked fucked up from the word go.

I really do like Clancy's early work, but Debt of Honor was the last really good book he had and that I have a number of problems with such as Japan/America really going to war over trade. I know it happens in history, but it was blantaly stupid. Still, it was a good book even with the major flaw. Re-reading all of them, Hunt is still the best one only by a hair to Red Storm Rising and Sum of All Fears.

A Fan- Time to put the pen down, Oriole boy




Evil Buddha
Pickled pork








Since: 10.1.02
From: Somerville, MA

Since last post: 2799 days
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#12 Posted on
Count me as a huge fan of "Without Remorse." I just love the bang-stick.
Also, I encourage you to read "Cardinal" and "Hunt" as they are my other two favorites.



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BrewGuy
Kolbasz








Since: 2.1.02
From: Pickering, Ontario

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#13 Posted on

I actually found Debt Of Honor to be one of the among his books, but that's just me, I guess. It's still a good book. I'm afraid I can't say the same for "Red Rabbit", where he goes back to the beginning of Jack Ryan's career. Some interesting tidbits in there, but overall I found it to be EXTREMELY slow, and the payoff doesn't even come close to his other books.

But enough of the bad - on to the GOOD. You NEED to read "Rainbow Six" - definately one of his best - you'll LOVE it. "Executive Orders" is also terrific - not to mention HUGE (around 1100 pages if memory serves). If you haven't read "Without Remorse", I'd read it before you get into Rainbow Six - it'll give you the entire background on the John Clark character, which is expanded in most of the other Clancy books. I know "Clear And Present Danger", "The Sum Of All Fears", "Executive Orders", and "The Bear And The Dragon" all have Clark in them to varying degrees, and I may be missing some.

As for other Clancy books, "Red Storm Rising" is EXCELLENT - a must read; in fact, I just finished reading it again myself. It's basically a simulation of what World War III might have been like, and considering the spotlight on terrorism these days, it's especially a compelling read considering how the whole book starts.

For a little lighter reading, I highly recommend Clancy's "Net Force" series - I believe he co-writes them with somebody else. They're not nearly as detailed as his novels, but it's the same writing style. The stories are good and fun to read, and it's fun to see some of his ideas for the way the Net might be in the future. There's also the "Power Plays" series, but I haven't gotten into those yet.

(edited by BrewGuy on 22.1.03 1547)


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Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 76 days
Last activity: 7 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87

    Originally posted by BrewGuy
    I'm afraid I can't say the same for "Red Rabbit", where he goes back to the beginning of Jack Ryan's career. Some interesting tidbits in there, but overall I found it to be EXTREMELY slow, and the payoff doesn't even come close to his other books.
I agree with the payoff of Red Rabbit not nearly in the neighborhood of the payoff in Debt of Honor or Red October, I couldn't put it down. I also liked it more the second time I read it. I like reading his stuff a few times, because each time around I pick up something different that I missed prior. His stuff is great for your basic "on the can" reading, which is where I get a majority of my reading done.

In regards to the original post - If you read Without Remorse, the part of Debt of Honor where Clark meets up with Portagee on the island of Saipan will surely be more meaningful to you. Myself, I found that part to be one of my favorites.



"You know Monsoon, I am impressed, and I don't impress easy"
-Jesse "The Body" Ventura

"Bob Ryder sucks" - Me.
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 2004 days
Last activity: 1657 days
#15 Posted on
Tom Clancy writes good books. Rainbow Six had a lot of problems but was OK.
But as someone else said the whole Ryan universe is getting pretty out there. You have Denver nuked. Then you have the stock market crash, a medium sized war against Japan, and then the assasination of the President and Congress with Ryan becoming President. Then you have an outbreak of ebola and another medium sized war against the Iranian Empire. Then ecoterroists try to kill of the entire human race. Then you have the large war with China and their attempt to nuke DC. And all this in only 5 or 6 years!



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#16 Posted on
But I thought the stock market crash never happened cuz they rolled back the tape?

Aren't you glad *you* don't live in the Clancyverse?



High tide for the time being.
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3535 days
Last activity: 3535 days
#17 Posted on
I don't think America could survive the Clancyuniverse. I think when Denver got nuked, you saw the beginnings of being way out there. Everything up to that point was contained to the Ryans and select number of people, granted the IRA on John's lawn was not realistic, but it only affected those characters. The effect was not as global as you would think, Russia losing their best sub and spy was hard on them, but no one was going to war over it. With Denver getting hammered, you saw the beginngs of global ramifications. This was the next step forward in the books and I thought it was great til they got to Executive Orders with five different plots going which threatened the world.

Executive Orders is when he finally lost it, Debt of Honor was rumblings of Clancy throwing shit against the wall and seeing what could stick, but Orders is where he finally said "Fuck it, these people will read anything". I thought the ending and the fact that the war was very minor and was not really being orcherested by Japan's goverment and the end made up for the meeting plus Clark/Ding. I haven't read Without Remorse or the Rainbow Six books, but I get the general feeling, I'm not missing out.

A Fan- I hear the video games are cool.
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#18 Posted on
I never knew there were so many Clancy fans out there... on this board anyway.

I know some didnt like Executive Orders, but its probably my favorite because I love reading things about the life of the president and the Secret Service and all that. Plus the ending with the Gulf War 2 was exciting if a little far-fetched. Trust me people, our military isnt THAT invincible. But it was still an exciting read.


I have a few beefs with Clancys writing style. I always hated that hes never 100% percent clear with his dates and years in the clancyverse. I know he doesnt want to date his books so to speak but when I start thinking about his timeline in relations to say, his president in the clancyverse I get confused. Like in his books h acknowledges that Reagan was the president then Bush (who won Gulf War 1) but then he jumps from the real world to the clancyverse by saying that president Fowler succeeded Bush. But when? 92 or 96? Because we know Jack was President in 2000 because the Rainbow Six hinges around the Sydney Olympics. So if Fowler became President in 1996 then all the bad shit from SOAF to Rainbow happened in THREE years! Think about that one...


Also he really exaggerates on the capabilities of our military. Which isnt a major beef becuase he does write fiction. And its not even the super weapons Im talking about. I mean just like Navy ships, what we have and dont have on them. All I can say is sometimes I wish I had joined the Navy in Clancy universe because they have way cooler shit than the one Im in....lol. But like I said he does write fiction and if he wrote about the Navy (and the other armed forces) the way it really is nobody would probably join. I just wish he would talk with a few enlisted soldiers and sailors to make his dialogue a little more realistic.


But Im not Clancy bashing, I love his books. Most of them anyway. I didnt like Red Rabbit but Im really looking forward to his next book that will close out the Jack Ryan saga.




Ya know how we do it, big balling and big blingin'....
Smackfiend
Mettwurst








Since: 11.11.02

Since last post: 3640 days
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#19 Posted on
I've never read any of his books, just seen Red October and am currently making my way through Splinter Cell. SC has me intrested in checking one of the books out, I just wasn't sure which would one would be good to start with...
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 2004 days
Last activity: 1657 days
#20 Posted on
One of the thing about the Clancyverse is that the US hasn't seemed to change at all. After Denver got nuked during the Superbowl you would think there would some changes. But people still go to football, basketball, and baseball games. I would guess after that all sports would move have only a small live audience.
Then the Pres, his Cabinet. almost all of Congress, the JCS, the Supreme Court all die. And what does Ryan do a week later? He goes on a fundraising tour! You would think that he had better things to do and the the Secret Service would tell him hell no.
Seriuosly after 3 serious terrorists attacks in 2 years the govt would crack down. Hell, they wouldn't have a choice the public would demand it. But Mrs. Ryan still works and his youngest still went to a public daycare.

(edited by Dahak on 23.1.03 1908)


Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
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