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The W - Pro Wrestling - TNA No Surrender 9/24/06 Discussion
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The Vile1
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Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 1949 days
Last activity: 1680 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.80
Pre-show:

Roode vs. Vaughn Doring - Roode still doesn't have a manager. Orlando fans get behind Doring by chanting him as a jobber. Roode debuts his new finisher the "Money-maker"(?), buzzsaw/neck-breaker thing to get the win.

Young vs. A1 - Young's basically become TNA's Eugene to Jarrett's HHH. Just too bad he's not wrestling better workers. Young wins in a match that really shouldn't be on PPV.

Jay Lethal vs. Petey Williams - Way for TNA to usher back in Vince Russo. Williams consumes laxatives and Lethal gets the advantage and wins. Complete and utter stupidity. I thought the X division was supposed to be the antithesis of crap like this?

Abyss vs. Raven vs. Runt - OK, so Abyss wins yet another hardcore match. So what? He already beat Raven in Hangman's horror. This is what Abyss is destined to be doing since TNA will never get behind him as world champ which is sad. I honestly don't think TNA would be in a much worse hole than it is in now if Abyss was world champ instead of Jarrett.

Triple Chance battle royale - Looks like AMW isn't breaking up for now and is going through with a feud with the James Gang. Naturals predictably win. But their thing with Douglas really isn't going anywhere nor is it really helping the Naturals at all. Guys like Shelley and Devine are wasted in matches like this too, basic cluster-fuck battle royal. Nothing special.

Sabin vs. Senshi - The finish which ruined a perfectly fine X division title match, certainly one of the better ones in recent memory. I give the Orlando fans credit for turning against it which I hope the morons booking this crap heard. For the first time I can ever recall, a blow-up sex doll is brought in during an X division title match. Senshi comes back with a running front dropkick and puts his feet on the ropes for the pin. Good match, horrible finish. I spit on the X division regressing to this. Supposedly, Jeremy Borash is responsible for this. It makes it so much easier to hate him now.

Cage vs. Rhino - So now Cage has turned into a much stronger character. Problem is, he's not feuding with Sting like he should be. The promo he cut earlier was really well done. Match was good and I think it really worked in getting over Cage's heel character, especially the finish, which is one of the few times I can justify a screwy type of finish. Rhino plays up the injury angle by taking all these one-man conchairtos.

Ultimate X - great match but I think it's ridiculous that Styles and Daniels won. LAX are the hottest act in town. What does Styles and Daniels winning the titles back do? Nothing. LAX keeping the titles means they are the team to beat. Oh well, still a good match though. I think Hernandez is ridiculously impressive for his size. Homicide took a ridiculous styles clash bump, hope he's ok. Certainly one of the better Ultimate X matches in probably a year and a half.

Joe vs. Jarrett - well I'll give TNA that they didn't do all this stupid build-up of fans getting their revenge and Joe apparently being a man of the people now and having Jarrett win which I thought he would. Jarrett comes out wearing a bunch of shirts for protection which was pretty funny. Still nothing of true significance since it's hardly a clean win for Joe with all the fan involvement and whipping. They repeat the finish from TNA Sacrifice and Joe wins with the muscle buster. Problem is, the main event at their BIGGEST PPV OF THE YEAR(!) is Sting vs. Jarrett.

Cornette says they are going to primetime in November. Still one hour, basically the announcement they made earlier this year prematurely.

Video featuring Angle. Here's the youtube link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=F7SrNxBylHk

Less than a month before their biggest PPV of the year and their challenger for the world title is NOWHERE to be seen or found. Sorry, that's not good booking.

(edited by The Vile1 on 24.9.06 2241)
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Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
(I wrote this up as a new thread, but I'll just tack it onto Vile's; sorry if I repeat some info! Hey Vile -- you said you weren't going to watch!)

It was a PPV where the first 2 hours and 45 minutes were overshadowed by the final 5 minutes, but let’s take a quick look.

PRE SHOW:Bobby Roode defeats Vaughn Doring: No idea who Doring is, but he’s pretty big; bigger than Roode. Roode hits the Northern Lariat followed by the "Payoff" for the finish. The "Payoff" is (yaawwwn) the Roll of the Dice.

Eric Young defeats A1: Pretty boring -– not as comedy-driven as I expected. Young wins with the Showstopper (wheelbarrow neckbreaker), which I didn’t expect him to be able to hit on the big A1.

Jay Lethal defeats Petey Williams because Lethal, Dutt and Sabin slipped laxatives into Williams' water. Oh! And the comedy was rampant! Seriously, though, this sucked. It would be easy (SO easy) to blame Russo, but they've been doing this Jackass stuff for several weeks and I guess it had to lead up to someone's ass at some point. Williams got a couple of good moves in -- a slingshot reverse lungblower and some sort of wraparound DDT. Lethal won with a rollup while Dutt capered.

Abyss defeats Raven and Brother Runt by pinning Raven after a Black Hole Slam. Crazy spots: 1) Abyss was laid out on a table under the entrance tunnel; Runt leapt down onto Abyss from OVER the entrance tunnel –- FEET FIRST. He landed on Abyss’ stomach –- the table didn’t break, and Runt skidded off and flew down the ramp. 2) Raven got a dog collar around Runt’s neck and HAULED HIM UP BY IT to a platform above, then threw him off of it through two tables. No tacks in sight; "regular" finisher a bit anticlimactic. Look for a Monster’s Ball next month.

The Naturals defeat AMW after the Battle Royal. Adequate, I guess. They set up two feuds –- Bentley & Kazarian vs. the Paparazzi and AMW vs. James Gang -– and the Nats retain Shane Douglas as their manager and go on to face –- well, I dunno –- they said they’d be “in line” for a title shot, but didn’t get any more specific.

Senshi defeats Senshi with a flying dropkick into a blow up doll. Really cool match ruined by super, SUPER shitty Jackass-inspired stuff. The crowd chanted "THIS IS STUPID." Hopefully, the fact that the Jackassery backfired and, as Tenay said, "bit Sabin on the ass," means we can move on.

Christian defeats Rhino with an Unprettier on a chair after a ref bump. Nothing special. Feud will continue.

Styles & Daniels defeat LAX. Great match, the best Ult.X match they’ve done in a long long time. Ending saw Daniels climb to the very VERY top of the cables support and from there LEAP to the middle of the cables and snare the belt. We also saw Styles Styles Clash Homicide of the apron and FACE FIRST through a table on the floor! Hernandez ate a Styles frog splash and a Daniels BME and a Spiral Tap one right after the other. I would’ve had LAX win –- but maybe there will be some sort of awesome "tie breaker" match next month –- LAX won their specialty, S&D won theirs -– maybe have it in a cage?

Samoa Joe defeats Jeff Jarrett with the Muscle Buster. Pretty uneventful. Fans were there but not much of a factor although there was a lot of participation -– at one point, Joe tied JJ to a ring rope and the fans came into the ring and whipped JJ as the ref desperately tried to shoo them out. Not a very good match but the right ending.

And the announcements, about which you all know by now.

Also of note: Slick Johnson wore long pants!

--K



Last 5 movies seen: The Proposition - Touch the Sound - Lucky Number Slevin - Behind Locked Doors - District B13
The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 1949 days
Last activity: 1680 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.80
Yeah I did say that, but at the last second a friend decided to order it and so we went. I didn't pay to see it at least.

Also, the Ultimate X match was the tie-breaker. Since Styles and Daniels won at Hard Justice. After the border brawl they were 1-1. This was the rubber match.

Joe vs. Jarrett is probably one of the worst Joe matches I've ever seen. Joe looked like he was pulling all his offense to protect Jarrett. It just looked . . . light and sloppy. They both kind of looked like they were dogging it. Maybe Jarrett did it on purpose since he knows he's going to get demoted soon. Then again, most of his wrestling matches these days are unimpressive.
majikx
Haggis








Since: 6.9.05
From: Elizabethtown

Since last post: 2400 days
Last activity: 2396 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.69
I was watching this at home, and as soon as I realized the surprise was Angle I made a choice, no more TNA support from me. Those bastards are going to get him killed because they had to sign him before he healed up. Remember the letter Angle sent ot about being healthier and bigger? Well it's because he is probably back on the juice, and will come out looking like he did pre-wellness policy. I know this is a competitive industry, but DAMN, couldn't they have held off for the sake of Angle's family. I will never watch Angle on TNA, I don't want to destroy the wonderful memories of him that I have.
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2623 days
Last activity: 2623 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.73
    Originally posted by majikx
    I will never watch Angle on TNA, I don't want to destroy the wonderful memories of him that I have.


Through shows like WWE Confidential, numerous interviews with Angle & Lesnar (possibly others, but we'll stick with these two), and several years more of Angle interviews, we've learned one thing: Kurt Angle worked hurt through most of his WWE career, which comprised all of your wonderful memories of him.

It's on the record in one of the WWE Confidential clips that Angle's doctors were severely against him wrestling Lesnar at WM19 because his neck was already broken. Somehow, the people putting on the event were okay with him going out to wrestle and take several german suplexes.

I have a bigger problem with that. As it stands, there's too much misinformation surrounding Angle's condition right now to know what is legit.

Truth be told, 99% of wrestlers are wrestling with an injury whenever they're in the ring - ask a wrestler, they'll tell you. So with the logic I keep hearing here, why not shut down anyone with an injury? Without a union, people will work hurt just to keep their jobs.




// the circus // dvd shelf // top 20 //

oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1923 days
Last activity: 1857 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Angle's not just injured. He's not just on pain meds. He's so injured, and so addicted to meds, that a company that valued him as their biggest and best pure athlete, as one of their top stars, fired him to try and get him to take responsability for his problems. Really, that should be all you need to know. Angle's condition was-and probably still is-so bad that, after months of trying to get him to straighten out, WWE were willing to forego any further involvement with him in order to try and rectify the situation.

Look, I know the idea of Kurt Angle in a TNA ring is an exciting one. Were this the Angle of even two years ago I would say that a reduced schedule and a few more changes would be a great thing and a boon for both the wrestler and the company. But this is a guy who's had more time off than on in the past year. This is a guy who, as you said, should have stopped wrestling two to three years ago, and who refuses to stop working unless the higher-ups step in and shut him down. All this, and that's without taking into account that TNA's non-existent drug policy allows him to go back on the juice, plow through and pain pills and carry on performing.

And not only does it have implications for Angle, but for the entire wrestling biz. Just months after introducing a new health policy, the industry leader has had its efforts horribly undermined in order for their competitors to make money. They've essentially been punished for taking responsability for their workers' wellbeings.

It's a horribly irresponsible move on TNA's part. I don't see how anyone can just shrug their shoulders at this and say "hey, I can't wait for Angle/Joe!"




To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Thingfish
Cotto








Since: 13.4.05
From: Edinburgh, Scotland.

Since last post: 2435 days
Last activity: 2231 days
#7 Posted on
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Angle's not just injured. He's not just on pain meds. He's so injured, and so addicted to meds, that a company that valued him as their biggest and best pure athlete, as one of their top stars, fired him to try and get him to take responsability for his problems. Really, that should be all you need to know.


Didn't Kurt ask for a release? I don't think WWE fired him.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1923 days
Last activity: 1857 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
No, he was fired.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.31
It should be noted that the promo is really bad. Kurt is trying too hard there.

I don't see this changing my TNA viewing at all. I don't expect Kurt to wrestle more than once every two months, but I do expect him to talk a lot. I also expect his early matches to be like the ECW bout against the Brooklyn Brawler: headbutt, Anglelock, ringbell.

The problem for TNA is that they have no credible opponents for him. Samoa Joe maybe. MAYBE. Christian, Jarrett, Rhino, Brown (much as I love him), Abyss, Sting (if he's not gone, and I still contend he'll wrestle as Steve Borden)-- these guys don't have the stature to carry a feud with Angle. The manner in which they promoted his arrival says he's bigger than everyone they have. This is the epitome of a big fish in a small pond.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker

My blog will amuse. (heygregory.blogspot.com)
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 day
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.61
Has it ever been confirmed that Angle is a drug addict, as so many online make him out to be? I can't even get a clear cut answer if he is with his wife now or not. Didn't his statement say that he was?
Don't get me wrong, I am sure the guy has problems, physically and mentally, but it seems like much of this is speculation, not fact. Imagine that on the internet.
But if WWE was concerned with his safety, maybe this is what is best for him. Take few months off to heal up, and wrestle for a company where he only has to work 2-3 matches a month. Maybe not even that much (I'm looking at you, Sting).
Seriously, it seems like everyone is convinced Kurt is about to either drop dead, or kill himself, and I think a lot of it is not substantiated.



Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.25
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    The problem for TNA is that they have no credible opponents for him. Samoa Joe maybe. MAYBE. Christian, Jarrett, Rhino, Brown (much as I love him), Abyss, Sting (if he's not gone, and I still contend he'll wrestle as Steve Borden)-- these guys don't have the stature to carry a feud with Angle. The manner in which they promoted his arrival says he's bigger than everyone they have. This is the epitome of a big fish in a small pond.


This immediately popped into my head, too. Except for Joe (and as stiff as he works, I don't think I'd actually want to see that match. I'd be cringing at every move.), TNA has no one on his level. Furthermore, he'll really expose the relative size of a lot of their guys. Kurt's never been promoted as a "big man," but he's at least as big as their resident monster, Abyss.
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 day
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.61
I agree that some guys will be exposed next to him, but not Abyss. I watched some ROH this weekend, and Abyss was on the card, and dwarfed all of the guys in his 6 man match. I also saw Matt Hardy wrestle Homicide, and he looks much bigger than him, which surprised me, because I never thought Matt was a big guy by any means.



Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
rv581
Goetta








Since: 2.12.02

Since last post: 1419 days
Last activity: 589 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
    Originally posted by kentish
    Has it ever been confirmed that Angle is a drug addict, as so many online make him out to be? I can't even get a clear cut answer if he is with his wife now or not. Didn't his statement say that he was?
    Don't get me wrong, I am sure the guy has problems, physically and mentally, but it seems like much of this is speculation, not fact. Imagine that on the internet.
    But if WWE was concerned with his safety, maybe this is what is best for him. Take few months off to heal up, and wrestle for a company where he only has to work 2-3 matches a month. Maybe not even that much (I'm looking at you, Sting).
    Seriously, it seems like everyone is convinced Kurt is about to either drop dead, or kill himself, and I think a lot of it is not substantiated.

I agree. The fact that someone takes drugs does NOT automatically make them a drug-addict. Lots of people with chronic pain will take drugs on a regular basis -- and because of it, will probably fail a good number of drug tests. And without knowing the types of drugs being used, or the amount of drugs taken on a daily / weekly basis, an armchair medical diagnosis by wrestling fans lacking medical training is PROBABLY devoid of value.

The counter-argument, of course, is that the WWE wouldn't have released Angle unless he was damaged goods... but I'm kinda skeptical about this claim as well. Additionally, I don't think Vince McMahon has even come CLOSE to earning the benefit of the doubt for making decisions based on altruism-- or for the best interests of the wrestlers' welfare.

I'd imagine that Kurt Angle had a pretty BIG contract with the WWE -- and given his recent injury history, age, and (apparent) displeasure with various company decisions, it could very well be that McMahon simply decided that Angle wasn't worth the payout or the headache.

Bottom line? If I had to take someone at face value for doing what's in the best interest of Kurt Angle, I'd side with Kurt Angle before I'd side with Vince McMahon.



"Who ate my sandwich???"
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2623 days
Last activity: 2623 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.73
    Originally posted by kentish
    Has it ever been confirmed that Angle is a drug addict, as so many online make him out to be? I can't even get a clear cut answer if he is with his wife now or not. Didn't his statement say that he was?
    Don't get me wrong, I am sure the guy has problems, physically and mentally, but it seems like much of this is speculation, not fact. Imagine that on the internet.
    But if WWE was concerned with his safety, maybe this is what is best for him. Take few months off to heal up, and wrestle for a company where he only has to work 2-3 matches a month. Maybe not even that much (I'm looking at you, Sting).
    Seriously, it seems like everyone is convinced Kurt is about to either drop dead, or kill himself, and I think a lot of it is not substantiated.


Here, here. I'm surprised so much speculation is being allowed to be passed off as the truth. Such as people saying "Angle is now going to die in a TNA ring!!!!" Some of you guys must have inside sources telling you everything - perhaps someone can tell me the terms of Angle's release? Or the status of him and his wife? Didn't think so.

This reminds me of how everyone crapped all over the season finale of The Office this past year, assuming they all knew what direction the writers were going in with the Pam/Jim kiss.



// the circus // dvd shelf // top 20 //

TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 8 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by chill
      Originally posted by kentish
      Has it ever been confirmed that Angle is a drug addict, as so many online make him out to be? I can't even get a clear cut answer if he is with his wife now or not. Didn't his statement say that he was?
      Don't get me wrong, I am sure the guy has problems, physically and mentally, but it seems like much of this is speculation, not fact. Imagine that on the internet.
      But if WWE was concerned with his safety, maybe this is what is best for him. Take few months off to heal up, and wrestle for a company where he only has to work 2-3 matches a month. Maybe not even that much (I'm looking at you, Sting).
      Seriously, it seems like everyone is convinced Kurt is about to either drop dead, or kill himself, and I think a lot of it is not substantiated.


    Here, here. I'm surprised so much speculation is being allowed to be passed off as the truth. Such as people saying "Angle is now going to die in a TNA ring!!!!" Some of you guys must have inside sources telling you everything - perhaps someone can tell me the terms of Angle's release? Or the status of him and his wife? Didn't think so.

    This reminds me of how everyone crapped all over the season finale of The Office this past year, assuming they all knew what direction the writers were going in with the Pam/Jim kiss.


WWE released Angle for no reason; he obviously has no severe health or drug problems, WWE just gave Angle away to TNA on a whim.

Right.



"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it."

--George Carlin
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 1 day
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06

Hey, I hate the fact that there's the potential of Angle really hurting himself. But I also hate that there's the potential of, let's say, AJ Styles landing wrong off of the Ultimate X cables.

Hopefully any in-ring activity for Angle will be held off until at least 11/16. But as far as Kurt Angle being in TNA ... yeah, it excites me.

samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 308 days
Last activity: 300 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.03

    Here, here. I'm surprised so much speculation is being allowed to be passed off as the truth. Such as people saying "Angle is now going to die in a TNA ring!!!!" Some of you guys must have inside sources telling you everything - perhaps someone can tell me the terms of Angle's release? Or the status of him and his wife? Didn't think so.

    This reminds me of how everyone crapped all over the season finale of The Office this past year, assuming they all knew what direction the writers were going in with the Pam/Jim kiss.


Check out the Observer from a couple weeks ago. Details lie within.



Ken Kennedy debuted a new finisher: Jeff Hardy fans will insist on calling it the Swanton Bomb, but it looks WAY more devastating when not performed by a 180-pound fruitcake.
-Rick Scaia 06.12.2006
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 day
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.61
Not everyone gets the Observer, is there just speculation/rumors in it, or facts?



Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
Destrucity
Boerewors








Since: 21.4.04
From: New York, NY, USA

Since last post: 2833 days
Last activity: 2741 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.08
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    It should be noted that the promo is really bad. Kurt is trying too hard there.
You know, the promo looked really good to me. It was technically proficient. It was exciting. Angle looked like a badass. Yet I watched it three times, and each time I blushed in vicarious embarrassment. I couldn't quite put my finger on why.

Everybody crapped all over the Office season finale? Geez, I thought it was one of the best episodes of any sitcom I've ever seen in my life, seriously maybe top five, with a decent shot at No. 1. I didn't talk to anybody who disagreed.



"No one doesn't like Sabu!" -Tazz
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.31
    Originally posted by Destrucity
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      It should be noted that the promo is really bad. Kurt is trying too hard there.


    If Kurt had a mustache in that promo, he'd be twirling it. It's a goofy display of unbridled intensity as he's literally chomping at his bit to get to work. Same thing with Samoa Joe's promo on Thursday's Impact or the Balls Mahoney promos where he scrunches up his face like Muttley because he's tickled by his own recklessness. Less is more.

    If he had simply looked at the camera and said in a calm, and focused voice, "I've kicked everyone else's ass, now it's your turn," oh, Lordy, I'd be all over that.

    (edited by Matt Tracker on 25.9.06 1005)


    "To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker

    My blog will amuse. (heygregory.blogspot.com)
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