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The W - Pro Wrestling - TNA Genesis reaction
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chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2723 days
Last activity: 2723 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.70
The big story: Angle taps out Joe for Joe's first loss in TNA.

The good:
-Angle refusing to shake Joe's hand after the match, denying Joe of the rematch he asked for.
-Raven's new look.
-Raven caning Devine in the middle of the ring after Devine got pinned by the VKM.
-VKM was quite good, surprisingly.
-The post-match angle between Jerry Lynn/Sabin/Daniels. Sabin actually showed some charisma and personality tonight for the first time ever.
-The seeds of an AJ Styles heel turn.

The bad:
-Cornette stripping the LAX of the tag titles for trying to burn the US flag again.
-Petey Williams holding up the US flag.. WTF?

The ugly:
-Abyss winning the NWA Title when Sting got DQ'd for pushing the ref down a second time (in TNA, the title changes hands on a DQ).
-AMW and the LAX had one sh*tty match. Both sides were very sloppy and seemed confused a lot toward the end.
-Bobby Roode. The guy's gimmick is not working out, and it makes no sense to have him on the pre-show two PPVs in a row if he's supposed to be a big deal.


(edited by chill on 19.11.06 2149)

(edited by chill on 19.11.06 2223)

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sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 2010 days
Last activity: 710 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.83
Some thoughts.

Chris Sabin finally won me over on this pay-per-view. Apparently this heel turn finally got him to show some personality in the ring. Good shit.
Oh, and also. Is Austin Aries/Starr supposed to look like Randy Savage? Because he does.
Oh, and Nash was gold on commentary. "We call that the Amish Churn." "Closed fist! Disqualify him!" Awesome.

I agree with Chill in that it was a horrible decision to strip LAX of the belts. Fortunately, the fans shit all over it, so hopefully (considering it's TNA) they will actually listen to that reaction and do something to overturn it.

Very odd title match. It almost seemed like Sting was working heel tonight, from trying to hit Abyss with the title belt to getting DQed for attacking the referee. It did, however, go well with the theme that Mitchell set forth in the pre-match promo, wherein he implored Sting to succumb to the darkness inside him that he said he's overcome. In that, when he let the "darkness" take over, it cost him the title. I like the idea of the "dark side" of Sting trying to take over, but I'm not sure that that's where they were going with this.
mercer
Head cheese








Since: 17.11.03
From: Aransas Pass TX

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19
13:33. They didnt even give Joe-Angle 20 minutes. I know this is so they can do a big build to a rematch between the two and drag it out over months (something many fans have said they shouldve done with this match) but still, they should've been given a little more time. There was 18 minutes left in the ppv for crying out loud. And a great brawl between sting and abyss, that guy is like a giant terry funk.



The one man weapon of mass destruction that all the ladies call the master of seduction, MARVELOUS MATT MERCER!!!
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Marvelous Matt Mercer
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chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.70
I'll just say I like the fact they're going to build up for several months toward Joe/Angle 2. The only reason they gave us this matchup so early was the primetime debut of Impact. With that over, we can probably enjoy a good long build-up. Looks like Angle is the heel in this pairing now, and Joe will be given the typical Wrestlmania-like chase.



// the circus // dvd shelf // top 20 //

spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
    Originally posted by chill
    The big story: Angle taps out Joe for Joe's first loss in TNA

I offer this from the perspective of someone who was a potential TNA customer. That result alone was enough to keep me from buying a replay. I'm sure somehow this is totally different than WWE putting the old dudes over the young guys and all that jazz, but as the sort of consumer TNA theoretically wants to pick up this will not do it for me. Burning off a dream match within weeks and having the old guy go over...if this was WWE we'd be saying same old shit on this one, and I can't see anything to make me believe otherwise here.





Now I'll never be able to lead SPF's spfers! (The W)
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.70
    Originally posted by spf
      Originally posted by chill
      The big story: Angle taps out Joe for Joe's first loss in TNA

    I offer this from the perspective of someone who was a potential TNA customer. That result alone was enough to keep me from buying a replay. I'm sure somehow this is totally different than WWE putting the old dudes over the young guys and all that jazz, but as the sort of consumer TNA theoretically wants to pick up this will not do it for me. Burning off a dream match within weeks and having the old guy go over...if this was WWE we'd be saying same old shit on this one, and I can't see anything to make me believe otherwise here.




It's always interesting to hear people's takes on a PPV when they didn't watch it. If you had, you'd probably be talking about:

a) how good of a match it was
b) how intense and well-performed the post-match stuff was
c) how the dream match wasn't burned off at all, but rather it was a brief taste of what's to come and look forward to
d) how Angle going over Joe tonight is what made sense
c) and how crazy the live crowd went when Angle won the match

This isn't a case of Jeff Jarrett beating Joe. And it definitely isn't the same as Triple H winning every match for a year straight. If you see Kurt Angle in the same light as Jarrett or Triple H, then you probably aren't watching TNA anyway and never would, regardless of this outcome.



// the circus // dvd shelf // top 20 //

Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.12
    Originally posted by spf
    I'm sure somehow this is totally different than WWE putting the old dudes over the young guys and all that jazz, but as the sort of consumer TNA theoretically wants to pick up this will not do it for me. Burning off a dream match within weeks and having the old guy go over...


What makes this different, I think, is that Joe was firmly established in the company by the undefeated streak whereas Angle was wrestling his second-ever match for TNA and cannot afford a loss at this critical time. The usual complaint about a promotion putting the old guy over is that doing so fails to make new stars; in this case, the old guy is the new star. WWE put the younger Rock and Austin over the aging NWO right out of the gate, and all that did was make the Rock/Austin/NWO feud seem utterly pointless instead of, y'know, making a buttload of money. An Angle loss would beg the question "Well, what was the point of bringing this loser into TNA?" whereas an Angle victory proves that he lives up to the hype so as to build interest in future matches.

Now, you're clearly thinking beyond the one match and more about Angle being pushed at Joe's expense in the long term. And I agree, in the long term Joe needs to come out of this feud on top to show that a TNA MVP can soundly beat a six-time WWE world champion. But this feud is clearly going to continue for months--maybe even throughout 2007 if Angle stays healthy--and for it to do that Joe couldn't stay undefeated the entire time. Having Joe lose right away raises more interesting possibilities, story-wise, than having him crush Angle like he did Sabu, Steiner, or Jarrett. What does Joe mean by "the hard way"? To what lengths will he go to avenge this loss? I think I know what Angle would do in his place, but this is unfamiliar territory for Joe's character.

Hopefully by the time the program ends Joe and Angle will have traded several losses and fans will be more comfortable with seeing either of them jobbing, and yet see them even more as unstoppable killing machines.
jwrestle
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Since: 4.4.03
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.76
    Originally posted by chill
    The big story: Angle taps out Joe for Joe's first loss in TNA.

    The good:
    -Angle refusing to shake Joe's hand after the match, denying Joe of the rematch he asked for.
    -Raven's new look.
    -Raven caning Devine in the middle of the ring after Devine got pinned by the VKM.
    -VKM was quite good, surprisingly.
    -The post-match angle between Jerry Lynn/Sabin/Daniels. Sabin actually showed some charisma and personality tonight for the first time ever.
    -The seeds of an AJ Styles heel turn.



-Yes, Joe taps and it could've went a bit longer. It was a very hot match as the crowd seemed generally fucking nuts!

-Raven and I guess the new flock type mafia freaks was totally awesome. That caning was totally brutal.

-Lynn/Sabin/Daniels was nice neat little thing to run.

-AJ Styles/Rhino/Daniels thing was just slightly different but AJ gets the line of to the night by telling Rhino, "Hey Dr. Phil if I need a psychologist I'll call you!" Then running off. I guess that will even the playing field if Jarrett shows back up as a face.



    The bad:
    -Cornette stripping the LAX of the tag titles for trying to burn the US flag again.
    -Petey Williams holding up the US flag.. WTF?



-Yeah, WTF on the stripping and I hope they change there minds by the time they do the tapings. Secondly, Petey though Canadian, he can hold the American flag if he wants to because he doesn't agree with the hatred for country like LAX. Still a little bit funny to see.





    The ugly:
    -Abyss winning the NWA Title when Sting got DQ'd for pushing the ref down a second time (in TNA, the title changes hands on a DQ).
    -AMW and the LAX had one sh*tty match. Both sides were very sloppy and seemed confused a lot toward the end.
    -Bobby Roode. The guy's gimmick is not working out, and it makes no sense to have him on the pre-show two PPVs in a row if he's supposed to be a big deal.


OMG! Someone pull out a freaking copy of the TNA rule book and put the freaking thing of fire! So for the first time in there history they had the title change hands on a DQ. Great, freaking great.

AMW vs LAX...yeah that wasn't a pretty match. I guess they were all having slight off night.

I agree with the Bobby Roode thing needing to be bump up from the pre-show to something later. I keep getting the feeling he's doing the old "Ravishing" Rick Rude gimmick with his own tweaks which I'm not totally on board with but I'm watching it. I hope it gets better...crossing fingers.

Overall: Not a bad PPV and it was worth the 13 minute main event for 29.95 as opposed to the E charging 39.95 for there occational, ok more often than not glorified shows, lack luster events.




Never know who you'll find drunk, not me...I only have the goofy look, at an Irish Pub...current NWA World Women's Champion Christie Ricci
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.57
    Originally posted by Jim Smith
    What makes this different, I think, is that Joe was firmly established in the company by the undefeated streak whereas Angle was wrestling his second-ever match for TNA and cannot afford a loss at this critical time. The usual complaint about a promotion putting the old guy over is that doing so fails to make new stars; in this case, the old guy is the new star. WWE put the younger Rock and Austin over the aging NWO right out of the gate, and all that did was make the Rock/Austin/NWO feud seem utterly pointless instead of, y'know, making a buttload of money. An Angle loss would beg the question "Well, what was the point of bringing this loser into TNA?"


I'm almost with you. I do think the finish was appropiate but I don't think anybody is going to wonder why they brought in Angle if he lost to Joe. Everybody knows Angle and one loss isn't going to change their opinions. I think what TNA was probably considering was the NEW fans. Bringing in Angle was a chance to bring new fans to the company. If they show up and see him lose to some guy they couldn't care about then why would they continue watching TNA. Yeah you need to make the new viewers care about Joe but not at the expense of the guy they came to see.

Abyss vs. Sting was more of your younger guy going over the newer guy scenario. It may have been a good move if done properly but of course the DQ finish ruins it plus I don't get why they played up the God angle with Sting then had him try and cheat and get DQed. Plus I'm not sure where they go with Abyss now if Angle, Styles and Christian are all heels. I'm not sure why they would give Joe a title match right after losing to Kurt either. Keeping the title on Sting and letting him feud with Kurt, Christian, or AJ makes more sense.



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THAT IS AWESOME!
flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Didn't see it, but it's fair to comment on booking.
- Angle going over does make sense in how WE (or ROH) would book the feud. This leads to a great chase for Joe and Joe/Angle II and all that jazz and Joe goes over to win the belt etc. BUT, this is pro wrestling and typically WHAT this does lead to is months of Angle vs Jarrett and Angle vs. Christian for the NWA title while Joe fucks around like Vader in '95. Y'know, Angle is the top dog in this company. It's what he's always wanted. Typically, when guys get put in this position DO they start PUTTING people over? It's fair to say Trip and Shawn don't put people over, but what a lot of wrestlers don't say is that if they're in the same position as them they'd do the same thing. Angle says he has 4-5 years left. Jarrett ain't going anywhere. Christian ain't. In other words, what management will view as the "real stars" are still gonna stick around. Are the new crop going over? We might be seeing Joe fucking around with Daniels and AJ for the X-title soon. I'm sure they'll tell Joe to sit tight for a few years then he'll get his chance to be "The Man." It may turn out great, but it's another example of TNA bringing in a WWE guy and putting him over their hottest guy. Someone ask Monty Brown about that. I will also say that Joe shouldn't have tapped. That's definitive. Heels tap. Babyfaces don't tap. Austin didn't quit against Bret at 'Mania. Remember that. I mean, we can view this similar to Austin/Bret at SurSer '96 too. Austin was the hot guy, really pushed for the match on TV, had everything to prove...Bret came back (much like Angle debuted) and they had a great match that Bret won with the sleeper counter. He won with skill and Austin looked strong. Y'know, I'll watch the Angle/Joe match this week, but ON PAPER, Angle definitively and cleanly beat Joe via his submission finisher. Conclusive. We'll see how it goes though...

- I wouldn't worry about the tag title stuff. It's dumb and worse case, Russo books a 32 man tag team reverse battle royal. What I assume will happen is LAX will use their lawyers to keep the belts or threaten a suit and Cornette will book them in some match as punishment.

- Good for Abyss. Hard worker. Not a good way to win it, though. Sting's reign sure went to hell quick. I do question him tapping now on Thursday and winning via DQ. Not exactly an inspiring build. Could we be looking at a Kane-type reign? Hell, give the belt to Angle at the tapings. Seriously, the quicker we get to where we're going the better.

Other than that, everything sounded fine. I hope the Starr/Shelley angle catches fire b/c both guys will go the way of Bobby Roode if it doesn't. Poor Shelly, he had so much potential. Now he's a comedy wrestler.
Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by Quezzy
    I don't get why they played up the God angle with Sting then had him try and cheat and get DQed.
Because the angle is as much or more about the belt as it is about Sting. The belt is the tool of Satan and corrupts the holder; it corrupted Jarrett and corrupted Sting (very quickly, too!).

Abyss and Mitchell represent evil demons who now hold the belt due to the manipulations of the Devil (and -- assuming that I'm not just pulling this out of my ass -- The Monster Abyss and the Satanist Mitchell are the obvious guys on the roster to do this storyline with).

Now Sting has to find his way out of the darkness and back to the grace of God. He gets the belt back, and, wiser and humbler after his previous fall, he makes good on his promise to bring honor and truth back to the title. Good ultimately triumphs over Evil.

I dunno, it seems pretty clear to me.

Most surprising moment was Sting taking the thumbtack bump. I was pretty sure we'd never see THAT.

I was also surprised by: No Senshi run-in, No Vince Russo appearance, how boring the Shelley/Starr/Truth/Hoyt match was, and Joe tapping out in a totally clean match.

I don't have a problem with the Joe/Angle finish, dependent, as others have said, on where it goes from here.

Several other matches had endings that drug the matches down for me -- Sabin/Daniels, Cage/Styles, and Sting/Abyss. I've been watching TNA since day 1, and I totally forgot about the DQ rule -- maybe they should have said something about it; perhaps slipped it in during the AMW/LAX match: "Konnan had better watch the shenanigans -- he might get his team DQ'd, which here in TNA means you lose the title!" Would that be tipping their hands too much?

Oh, and about LAX -- ugh. I'll wait and see where it goes, but I hate title-stripping angles a lot.

Overall, though, aside from the frustrating match endings, I enjoyed the show -- some really great action, especially in the second half.

--K



(edited by Karlos the Jackal on 20.11.06 0015)

Last 5 movies seen: Double or Nothing (1937) - Who Gets to Call it Art? - Shadow of a Doubt - Pusher II: With Blood on My Hands - Stolen
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 2023 days
Last activity: 1957 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Can we put a moritorium on "the fans went crazy" as praise for anything TNA does? The Impact Zone crowd would cheer for Joe wiping his ass. They're the TNA faithful.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2723 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.70
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Can we put a moritorium on "the fans went crazy" as praise for anything TNA does? The Impact Zone crowd would cheer for Joe wiping his ass. They're the TNA faithful.


Considering they were turning on Joe, while cheering for Angle? Not to mention chanting "You tapped out" at Joe? Yes, the crowd went crazy BECAUSE Angle won and the match had lived up to the hype. Did you even see the show? Because normally, I agree with what you're saying. Just not in this case.



// the circus // dvd shelf // top 20 //

oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
I just love how that's used as a reason for nything TNA does as being successful. It's ridiculous. So they went crazy for Angle. They'd go crazy for Hogan too if he showed up, I'm sure you wouldn't advocate putting him over Joe.

This show, on paper, seems absolutely horribly booked. Abyss is the worst paper champion I think I've ever seen, tapping clean three days before the show then winning the belt via DQ. And that says nothing about TNA utilising a rule that's barely been mentioned in the past two years on a show where they're hoping new fans are watching, with apparently little explanation. I guess they expect all new viewers to read up on TNA history before ordering a show. Sabin's now directionless after a month of fucking around the the X belt, which will now once again be used as a useless prop between Styles and Daniels when they don't really need it. Starr and Shelley are going nowhere fast. Ditto Eric Young, who was the hottest act in the company two months ago. LAX getting the titles stripped is completely counterproductive, and even if they do reverse that boneheaded decision it means yet another round of bait-and-switch. The VKM stuff is HORRID. Joe/Angle, the "match of the decade", only goes thirteen minutes and ends with Joe tapping like a bitch. Why the Hell should Angle give him a rematch? Joe looks like Tyson after he got his ass kicked by Lewis. A loser asking a winner for a rematch for no reason other than he got beat fair and square and can't quite believe it. Then there's the whole "it was a taste of what's to come" argument. You don't charge people PPV money for "a taste of what's to come". You put on an awesome, full-title-boogie match so that the guys that see it tell their friends to order the replay, and order the rematch because it's sure to be just as classic.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2723 days
Last activity: 2723 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.70
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    I just love how that's used as a reason for nything TNA does as being successful. It's ridiculous. So they went crazy for Angle. They'd go crazy for Hogan too if he showed up, I'm sure you wouldn't advocate putting him over Joe.

    This show, on paper, seems absolutely horribly booked. Abyss is the worst paper champion I think I've ever seen, tapping clean three days before the show then winning the belt via DQ. And that says nothing about TNA utilising a rule that's barely been mentioned in the past two years on a show where they're hoping new fans are watching, with apparently little explanation. I guess they expect all new viewers to read up on TNA history before ordering a show. Sabin's now directionless after a month of fucking around the the X belt, which will now once again be used as a useless prop between Styles and Daniels when they don't really need it. Starr and Shelley are going nowhere fast. Ditto Eric Young, who was the hottest act in the company two months ago. LAX getting the titles stripped is completely counterproductive, and even if they do reverse that boneheaded decision it means yet another round of bait-and-switch. The VKM stuff is HORRID. Joe/Angle, the "match of the decade", only goes thirteen minutes and ends with Joe tapping like a bitch. Why the Hell should Angle give him a rematch? Joe looks like Tyson after he got his ass kicked by Lewis. A loser asking a winner for a rematch for no reason other than he got beat fair and square and can't quite believe it. Then there's the whole "it was a taste of what's to come" argument. You don't charge people PPV money for "a taste of what's to come". You put on an awesome, full-title-boogie match so that the guys that see it tell their friends to order the replay, and order the rematch because it's sure to be just as classic.


Things learned from watching the PPV instead of just reading about it:

1. Most who saw the PPV would advocate putting Angle over Joe, based on where this is going. If tonight was the blow-off to the Angle/Joe feud, then I'm really confused based on what happened after the match... (watch the PPV)

2. The last time they mentioned and made a big deal of the "title changes hands on a DQ" rule was in the middle of the summer when Christian was challenging Jarrett, as opposed to the two year time lapse you're suggesting.

3. Sabin isn't now "directionless." Statements like that prove you didn't even see the show. It's the complete opposite. Sabin is entwined in what looks to be the start of a wicked slow-brewing feud with Jerry Lynn. Sabin had a career-making night tonight, showing a LOT of personality. Yeah, he sure is directionless...

4. The VKM stuff on the PPV was done quite well, regardless of what happened on Impact.

I could go on and throw out the stuff you said which clearly reveals you didn't watch the PPV, as much of what you said happened didn't even occur, but I've made my point. CLEARLY, some people just like to troll on boards like this and can find something to complain about with shows they didn't even watch.

Back to discussion of reality:

For the first time EVER, I am finally interested in Raven. And given how prevalent the Movement's members are right now, I have to think Russo is behind this. He always made a point to find something for EVERYONE to do, which can often lead to overbooked matches. There was a bit of this tonight, and some was hit or miss. But for all the misses, there are some really good hits, which makes it worth having Russo around. So far, so good. TNA lost my interest this past year, but I'm definitely hooked by a few angles that started tonight and recently.



// the circus // dvd shelf // top 20 //

oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 2023 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
So instead of feuding with someone who's actually been an active wrestler in the past year, Sabin's feuding Jerry Lynn? And has lost pretty much every match he's participated in since Bound For Glory? And is at the "start" of a feud that's been going for the last two months? Hot damn, his career's really taking off.

It doesn't matter how well the VKM stuff is "done". Who do VKM feud with? How does bashing WWE make money? What's the payoff? There is none possible. It's masturbatory smart-mark booking which should've gone out of vogue with the Billionaire Ted skits.

I don't care how WELL Joe asking for a rematch came off. He still lost, clean, decisive, to a man who didn't need it, ending the undefeated streak to a guy who'd be over just standing in the ring scratching his ass. It's bad booking. Why not put Joe over clean, if he was the guy getting turned against? Why not have Angle, the elder statesman, loking for post-match respect and finding none?

And please, enlighten me as to the things that I've mentioned that didn't even occur. Did LAX not have their titles stripped for no real reason? Did Abyss not become the lamest lame duck champion in recent memory? Why don't we try discussing these things instead of you turning this into a matter of "trolling"? I haven't said anything about the in-ring product, which I'm sure was as good as TNA's usually is. I'm sorry if I'm killing your Genesis buzz.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1465 days
Last activity: 373 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.28

I'm not a regular TNA viewer, but I bought this off the strength of Angle jumping to TNA and the clip of him headbutting Joe. I also haven't ever seen Joe in a match, so I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.

Overall, I was disappointed. The main event wasn't bad, but given the buildup, I thought it was a letdown. Joe can do some interesting things as a wrestler (it was admittedly cool to see a fat man jump up and kick a guy in the back of the head), but mostly he came off as overrated to me. Angle taking the neck bump into the guardrail from the apron just seemed needlessly sadistic. You *know* the guy has a bad neck, everyone's worried that he's basically a dead man walking, why the hell would you tempt fate? As for the "intensity," I think some posters are confusing intensity with two guys standing around and scowling at each other. Angle looked glazed over and strung out. Joe looked like he'd been practicing scary faces in a mirror.

Also, the match was pretty short. It had some nice spots, but like most matches tonight, there didn't seem to be a lot of cohesion between them. The finish reminded me of Angle/Benoit from that Royal Rumble from whenever, but everything leading up to that wasn't nearly as good. This felt like a decent TV main event.

Sting/Abyss... eh. Sting looked like he was in good shape, but then when he gingerly eased himself over the barricade to go after Abyss, the effect was ruined. The spot onto the thumbtacks was good, even if it's already been done by WWE. Sting jumping up after 30 seconds and no-selling it was not so good. The DQ title change at the end was stupid.

Christian/Styles was fun, but Christian looks a bit... withered... I don't know. He looked like he'd lost a lot weight and was covered in fake tanning bronzer. Styles was very impressive in the ring, as he has been the few times I've seen him, but when he took the mic, it was pretty weak. Someone needs to work with him on that accent, when you call someone "Dr. Phil" and sound like his learning-disabled son, it loses the effect.

Other thing I can remember was Sabin/Daniels. Again, lots of spots and they seemed well-executed, but there's really nothing stringing them together. I felt like I was watching two guys cycle through their movesets.

Rest seemed like filler. In fairness, TNA seems to have improved their production values and presentation. I've ordered probably four of their shows since the promotion started and each has been better than the last. But it still comes off as a tad bush league. I'd really like for TNA to do well, and in theory I'd like to support them, but this really didn't do much to hook me.

Which sucks, because the WWE product is terrible right now, and I really wanted to like this.

(edited by asteroidboy on 20.11.06 1049)

-- Asteroid Boy

Wrestling Noir


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 1 hour
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.84
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    I just love how that's used as a reason for nything TNA does as being successful. It's ridiculous. So they went crazy for Angle. They'd go crazy for Hogan too if he showed up, I'm sure you wouldn't advocate putting him over Joe.

    This show, on paper, seems absolutely horribly booked. Abyss is the worst paper champion I think I've ever seen, tapping clean three days before the show then winning the belt via DQ. And that says nothing about TNA utilising a rule that's barely been mentioned in the past two years on a show where they're hoping new fans are watching, with apparently little explanation. I guess they expect all new viewers to read up on TNA history before ordering a show. Sabin's now directionless after a month of fucking around the the X belt, which will now once again be used as a useless prop between Styles and Daniels when they don't really need it. Starr and Shelley are going nowhere fast. Ditto Eric Young, who was the hottest act in the company two months ago. LAX getting the titles stripped is completely counterproductive, and even if they do reverse that boneheaded decision it means yet another round of bait-and-switch. The VKM stuff is HORRID. Joe/Angle, the "match of the decade", only goes thirteen minutes and ends with Joe tapping like a bitch. Why the Hell should Angle give him a rematch? Joe looks like Tyson after he got his ass kicked by Lewis. A loser asking a winner for a rematch for no reason other than he got beat fair and square and can't quite believe it. Then there's the whole "it was a taste of what's to come" argument. You don't charge people PPV money for "a taste of what's to come". You put on an awesome, full-title-boogie match so that the guys that see it tell their friends to order the replay, and order the rematch because it's sure to be just as classic.



Sometimes, putting on a great match right off the bat hurts you. Look at the Joe/Styles/Daniels match from Unbreakakble or the Angle/Michaels match from WM. Both were great matches, but when it came to the rematches (or subsequent ones), they felt like letdowns and often don't get remembered fondly. This match did enough, in that it was a good match, made you want more and I'm willing to bet if they matched up again, most if not everyone who ordered the event would want to see it again.

As for Joe tapping, well, Angle/Benoit at RR was a hell of a match and Benoit tapped. Seems people wanted to see them wrestle again. It's not like Joe tapped immediately and the announcers buried him. He got on the mic, demanded a rematch and when he didn't get it, said "I guess we have to do it the hard way". Losing to a guy, who in storyline terms, is still in his prime and is acknoledged as the best wrestler in the world, isn't so bad. Joe's now more than the guy who's undefeated (wasn't that a major complaint about Goldberg?). If booked correctly, we can see how he deals with the loss, if he goes nuts or what he will do to get a rematch.

I think what's happened is because booking has been so terrible in wrestling in general, people have become cynical about what happens. You're laying out a scenario which hasn't happened yet and you're not giving them the benefit of the doubt. Hey, I hated the booking of how Abyss won the title, but the funny thing about wrestling is that they can write it (well if they are capable) to have it make some sort of sense.



(edited by DirtyMikeSeaver on 20.11.06 0813)


Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 2010 days
Last activity: 710 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.83
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    It doesn't matter how well the VKM stuff is "done". Who do VKM feud with? How does bashing WWE make money? What's the payoff? There is none possible. It's masturbatory smart-mark booking which should've gone out of vogue with the Billionaire Ted skits.


I was thinking the same thing as I watched Kip James posing in the ring after the match. Unless they bring DX over from WWE, which obviously isn't going to happen, this storyline can't possibly have payoffs in the ring.


    I don't care how WELL Joe asking for a rematch came off. He still lost, clean, decisive, to a man who didn't need it, ending the undefeated streak to a guy who'd be over just standing in the ring scratching his ass. It's bad booking. Why not put Joe over clean, if he was the guy getting turned against? Why not have Angle, the elder statesman, looking for post-match respect and finding none?


Yeah, anyone who is saying that this wasn't a crappy finish is fooling themselves. I love watching TNA, but I can't help but think that they screwed up here. Sure, they'll probably give Joe a win in the rematch, but I can't help but feel that TNA just lost the mythos of Samoa Joe The Undefeated Monster, which was something big they had going for them.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 1 hour
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.57
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
      Originally posted by Quezzy
      I don't get why they played up the God angle with Sting then had him try and cheat and get DQed.
    Because the angle is as much or more about the belt as it is about Sting. The belt is the tool of Satan and corrupts the holder; it corrupted Jarrett and corrupted Sting (very quickly, too!).

    Abyss and Mitchell represent evil demons who now hold the belt due to the manipulations of the Devil (and -- assuming that I'm not just pulling this out of my ass -- The Monster Abyss and the Satanist Mitchell are the obvious guys on the roster to do this storyline with).

    Now Sting has to find his way out of the darkness and back to the grace of God. He gets the belt back, and, wiser and humbler after his previous fall, he makes good on his promise to bring honor and truth back to the title. Good ultimately triumphs over Evil.


That makes sense and is certainly an interesting and new idea. But like you said Sting was corrupted awfully fast. He was talking about God, seen in the rafters once then he had turned to the darkside. It makes Sting look like his faith isn't very strong at all, which is why I hate angles like these.



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26 bucks up to 80 I don't much about the exchange rates, but damn, that must have made you shit a brick. I do know TNA is getting into the Austrailian market, tyring to fill the void where WWE left off.
- Nag, RAW is ALL. (2003)
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