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The W - Pro Wrestling - TNA Freaking Sucks (Rant) (Page 2)
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fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
I'm not angered by Hogan's actions, I was just stating my opinion on NWATNA using him. I fully realize and accept all that Hulk Hogan is. He's not changing for nobody, not now, not ever. I think NWATNA is naive or gullible thinking that somehow Hogan is going to be different with them. I just think risk/reward is too great and it'll end up crippling an already unstable promotion.

Your point about Hogan is always - he's just looking out for himself, everyone else be damned, he's rich. I'm saying that's fine and good for Hogan but it doesn't change his actions or my lack of respect for him. Being an asshole and a liar (among other things) may make you rich and wealthy but you're still an asshole and a liar. I'm not mad about it because I have no personal connection to the situation but I reserve the right to not turn a blind eye and just ignore anything negative or not comment on it.
darkdragoon
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Since: 26.8.02

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.22
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Hogan's spot came from years of drawing the biggest money in the business. I don't think Vader is a legend, perhaps in Japan but this ain't Japan. Hogan shouldn't have no-sold that finisher but if the Warrior can no-sell five macho man elbow drops Hogan can no sell a powerbomb. Ancient history. Hogan is Hogan, he is wrestling (or has the perception) and he will get handouts till the end of time because of that fact. The sooner you all get over that and learn to accept it, whether you agree with it or not, the happier you'll be.I'm serious. I can't argue in favour of every move he makes, or has made, but I learned to respect him in WWE when he put over Angle and Lesnar like a man. He will always get the benefit of the doubt, and I'm not saying you have to like it, but how many times can the same group of people get mad over the same thing, before they're just oversensitive


Which he doesn't anymore, look at the last 2 years and the NJ show.

BTW, Hogan's IWGP reign gave him credibility in the first place, so I guess 'Japan' has some credibility (so you might want to realize there are promotions over there with names).

Warrior was a direct attempt to make Hogan 2:Electric Boogaloo.

I was a bit surprised he tapped to the anklelock, but the whole "nah, pin's no good, how about internal injuries from a bearhug brother" was far from putting over. How gracious of him to decide Kurt and Brock needed to become stars after he's already gotten his WM 'dream match', an Undisputed Title reign, and a tag championship reign.

Yeah, Flair was a power broker. So was Dusty. So was Sullivan. So was Bischoff. So was Nash. They were halfassed throughout the WCW era and much of the late nwa stuff, but a good part of that was trying to mimic Vince rather than build on what they had...obviously that had some short-term success and long-term failure. You would think TNA would learn from that, but then again Jerry Jarrett has certained vultured in other places.

(edited by darkdragoon on 30.10.03 2316)
CRZ
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
Blatantly ignorant things you've said thus far in this thread:

1. Duggan isn't a Hogan crony (he is)
2. Vader attacked Arn with scissors (it was Sid Vicious)
3. Vader sucks (he does not)

And let's not even count the SUBTLY ignorant things... ;-)
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    He will always get the benefit of the doubt, and I'm not saying you have to like it, but how many times can the same group of people get mad over the same thing, before they're just oversensitive?
How many times will you leap to Hogan's defense before YOU'RE just oversensitive? How much money do you owe Hogan, anyway?

(edited by CRZ on 31.10.03 0007)


CRZ
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Since: 4.10.03

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#24 Posted on
Ken Anderson at 411 wrote two really good columns about Halloween Havoc that talk about the whole WCW/Hogan thing rather nicely, I think.

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/newsboard.php?columns_id=2267

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/newsboard.php?columns_id=2272

Anyway, he mentions that Meltzer did a great detailed expose of Hogan's lies in the book. Does anyone know where I can find that? I tried emailing Anderson but the addy didn't work........thanks!
LotusMegami
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Since: 22.9.03
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.71
Should I watch TNA this week now? I couldn't watch it live because my cable company sucks. I don't care about Hogan, have never heard of Duggan, and Jarrett has yet to get any emotion out of me.

Yet, I would miss Raven and Father Mitchell's sick sick sick sick sick match with the dog collars. And poor Abyss. I want to see what happens with him. And the X division. Any match in the X division.

You know, TNA could really benefit from a women's division. Or at some women. I hope the Franchise's girls can wrestle.

It wasn't Bret. Ah, well, at least I didn't bet on it this time. Everybody go to his website and vote.



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Since: 8.6.02
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.19
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Blatantly ignorant things you've said thus far in this thread:

    1. Duggan isn't a Hogan crony (he is)
    2. Vader attacked Arn with scissors (it was Sid Vicious)
    3. Vader sucks (he does not)

    And let's not even count the SUBTLY ignorant things... ;-)
      Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
      He will always get the benefit of the doubt, and I'm not saying you have to like it, but how many times can the same group of people get mad over the same thing, before they're just oversensitive?
    How many times will you leap to Hogan's defense before YOU'RE just oversensitive? How much money do you owe Hogan, anyway?

    (edited by CRZ on 31.10.03 0007)


I'm not aware of Duggan being a Hogan crony. Jimmy Hart, Ed Leslie, Brian Knobs...But not Duggan. Now if he is, and I haven't heard about, then fine. I just haven't heard about it, and in all honesty I've kept up with the man's career for a long time. So I don't consider that "blatantly ignorant". If you do, well, hats off, but I haven't come into that information. Also, let's differentiate b/n friend and crony. I would consider Duggan a Hogan friend, just not a crony.

I already acknowledged it was Sid. I don't know why I thought it was Vader. But several people pointed it out. I didn't formally apologize, but I did acknowledge I made a mistake. So you pointing out after several other people doesn't really make the mistake (or the acknowledgment of it any more relevant). It's just kind of redundant.

Vader sucking is a subjective point, so that's not really a valid criticism on your part. For the record, I've got nothing against Vader. I just don't think he is/was great. He's never impressed me, and I have seen a lot of that Japan WCW stuff. I won't call him a legend. A legend can't be leveraged into saying "I'm a fat piece of shit" on television.

I also dispute that I "leap" to Hogan's defense on every occasion. I sit out 90% of the crucifictions I see. You can count on one hand the number of times I've defended him. I do think people who say Hogan is any worse than Austin are out of their minds. Only at WM XIX did Austin finally put someone over the right way. Then he went back to squashing guys who can't hit him back because he's too brittle. If this guy is great and someone who no one around here has a problem with, that's everyone's opinion but I think it's ridiculous. I would doubt very seriously that most top guys haven't lied, and misled to get where they are. That's what gets lost in the Hogan hate. To get to the top, you gotta crack a few skulls and tell a few lies, whether you're Hogan, Bill Gates, or George Bush.

    Originally posted by darkdragoon
    I was a bit surprised he tapped to the anklelock, but the whole "nah, pin's no good, how about internal injuries from a bearhug brother" was far from putting over. How gracious of him to decide Kurt and Brock needed to become stars after he's already gotten his WM 'dream match', an Undisputed Title reign, and a tag championship reign.



How long have you been watching wrestling? I watched Hogan for 20 years refuse to go down to a bearhug or a sleeper or those types of moves (with precious few exceptions). Then Brock beat the crap out of him, beat him down in a spot Hogan NEVER lost in before, smeared his blood on him and left him for dead. You're entitled to your opinion, but the history behind that set-up, the story, did a lot more for Brock than beating Hogan with his finisher clean ever would have. I never said anything about him being gracious, allowing anyone to become stars or whatever you went into after that. I just pointed out a couple good things he did. As for title reigns, try to keep in mind the fans reacted to him in a way that led to these decisions. It wasn't his magic wand that did that, we did that. So I don't see how that works against him in your argument whatsoever.
Now, if you want to say he didn't draw, then you're entitled, but neither did anyone else. On shows that didn't draw, he got the standing ovations. So he got his push.

And I sincerely doubt that the fact he won the IWGP title has any bearing on the fact he got over in the AWA, and Titan later. It's not like Gagne or McMahon would have said no to him because he didn't win some Japanese promotion's championship, even if it was one as prestigious as that. I do have some awareness of Japanese wrestling, but I stand by my statement that being a legend in Japan doesn't make you a legend over here, and if Vader is a legend it's on that side of the pond.

    Originally posted by Fuel
    Your point about Hogan is always - he's just looking out for himself, everyone else be damned, he's rich. I'm saying that's fine and good for Hogan but it doesn't change his actions or my lack of respect for him. Being an asshole and a liar (among other things) may make you rich and wealthy but you're still an asshole and a liar. I'm not mad about it because I have no personal connection to the situation but I reserve the right to not turn a blind eye and just ignore anything negative or not comment on it.


See, I don't think you should turn a blind eye. I would never suggest that. But complaining about something or someone over and over again, is fundamentally pointless. It's like HHHate. Now it's taboo to make a holding down joke, or allude to his power and overwrought presence. That's how it is to me. It's tiresome.

Also, an "asshole and a liar" is a narrow-minded scope of an entire person to have. I judge someone on how they conduct their entire lives, not just how they operate politically in a professional environment. I look at what he's done outside of the ring, particularly in regards to the Make-A-Wish Kids and everyone wants to ignore that. Well there's something he doesn't have to do, but he does, and did for twenty years. Then again, I take IWC wet-dream Austin and I contrast his out-of-ring stuff with Hogan's. He drank a lot, pulled some ribs, and beat his wife. I'm not saying Hogan was a saint, but with charity and whatnot he's done a world of good, and made more difference in a lot of kids lives than anyone in wrestling ever has. On the DVD they showed a guy, twenty-something, crying next to him saying he was in gangs and on drugs but Hogan inspired him, and he cleaned up his life.

Things like that are important. They are more important than promises to job that never came to fruition, or times he no-sold moves, or "sabotage" he committed on guys that never really drew a tenth of his money before or after he "sabotaged" them. My philosophy is, who cares about that stuff, if he meets with cancer babies before they die. Whatever sins he's committed professionally have been atoned for and atoned for and atoned for through his charity resume. And that IS personal to me, because I've seen some of these kids, known some of them, loved some of them, and lost some too. I've seen their pictures with him, and it matters to them, and that's valid. The ends in this case completely and entirely justify the means. And I believe this assertion makes me neither ignorant, nor blind to anything. Any of you are entitled to differ with me on that, and I'm entitled not to care, because on this point by all means consider me a five-year-old. I'm not moving. I'm staying on that ship till it sinks.

Hogan the wrestler--not great. But Hogan the man, with all the good he's done; an asshole? Not a chance.

I won't debate this further, you guys understand my stance and I understand yours. That's just my gut feeling on the point, and I'll be happy to never discuss this again, since I've got nothing left to say.






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Give up?
A stroke of genius!
oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22
"Things like that are important. They are more important than promises to job that never came to fruition, or times he no-sold moves, or "sabotage" he committed on guys that never really drew a tenth of his money before or after he "sabotaged" them. My philosophy is, who cares about that stuff, if he meets with cancer babies before they die. Whatever sins he's committed professionally have been atoned for and atoned for and atoned for through his charity resume."

So a cop can be as corrupt as sin and condemn many folks to lives they didn't deserve, but if he's good to his wife and kids and gives money to charity he's a great guy? Hogan does charity work, sure. But there are many folks in the wrestling business-his line of work-whose careers he has, inadvertantly or otherwise, fucked up good and proper. Hogan was a MASSIVE draw, as you have said. Fair enough. But does that mean that he shouldn't give other people the same opportunities that were afforded him? Does that mean that he shouldn't do the same that Sheik, Piper, Orndorff et al did for him? Do you think he'd be anywhere close to being in the biz today if he hadn't had those people there to help him, and to guide him, and to see that he became the millionaire he is now?

So yeah, he's given some of his massive wealth to good causes, and he's made some little kids' dreams come true. But the only reason he's been in a position to do those things is because he's consistently stepped on other people to make him the star he is today. it's like a disgustingly crooked preacher who brings hope to a few people in the process of ripping others off-just because he cheers some up doesn't make it right to fuck over the rest.



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darkdragoon
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Since: 26.8.02

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.22
Doesn't matter if it never happened to hogan before, the 'internal injuries' thing is always a copout finish. smearing blood is very low-budget and even then not near the mutoh scale undertaker thing in HIAC. while it works on a superstar billy graham's karma thing, it's not like brocks' beaten anyone else with the bearhug. plus how did that put him over any more than flair and rock?

and of course he got standing ovations in MSG and toronto.

yeah, nobody's drawing well, but the momentary spikes hogan gets happened in wcw too, and look where they are.

no, it wasn't the catalyst (Rocky III obviously was), but you're sure making vince sound dumb for ignoring 'gee, watch him as a monster gaijin over there, imagine how people will react if he's the all-american babyface HERE?'

wasn't just the end that's hurting though, the sloppy crap of the gallows match, the overpush of the current x-champ etc. isn't helping much.

(edited by darkdragoon on 1.11.03 2345)
Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    So if Hogan didn't steer WCW onto the rocks....who did? I'd love to hear your ideas on the subject. Up until 2000-the point when they were bleeding money and nothing could save them-Hulk and his similarly-aged pals were the top dogs, made to look like superstars at the expense of everything else on the show.


So what you're saying is that a man in his mid to late 40's, making seven figures a year, is going to decide, out of the blue, to stop making all that money and wreck a company?

The people behind the scenes that we never saw killed WCW. Hell, Turner himself wanted the older guys around because he recognized their names. In fact, there is probably a huge menagerie of events that led to WCW's departure from existance, and it didn't just start or happen in '94. It started when WCW started, and the big players in WCW's death were Ted Turner, Vince McMahon, Eric Bischoff and other bookers; Vince Russo, Bill Watts, Dusty Rhodes, Ole Anderson, and Ric Flair.





Kane gets flustered that he didn't get to do something silly this week. Ho hum.
oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22
You're again ignoring massive slews of information in order to make your point. Hogan had TOTAL CREATIVE CONTROL over his character. Total. His egomaniacal masturbatory booking wasn't the fault of the men with the pen at the time, it was his own. HE was the one writing those stories. HE was the one making the demands. HE was the one who insisted on hiring all of his goons and giving them prominent positions over younger, better talent. Said talent then upped sticks and moved to the WWF (Mick Foley and Steve Austin in particular), and ended up being huge factors in the WWF steamrolling WCW in 1998. Both mens' WCW exits have direct ties to the arrival of Hulk.
HE was the one who changed the script on Vader-and that was AFTER he insisted on the big man being booked as a total coward. HE was the one who held off on blowing off his angle with Sting in '97, then screwed Sting in the eventual rubber match in order to make himself look better. HE was the one who, in 1999 and 2000, thought him versus Ric Flair, Sting and Lex Luger were better, more lucrative main events than any number of possible combinations. HE was the one who, in the summer of 2000, was so dead-set against laying down for Jeff Jarrett that they concocted the most uninteresting shoot angle to get them off the hook. HE was the on who, after "doing the right thing" in WWE upon his return, kicked up a shit-fit and walked out because he considere dhimself better than Angle and Lesnar and therefore deserving of the title.

So yeah, there were other players in the copany's death. But Hogan was MAJOR one, and there is no possible way to dispute that.



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ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.49
Here's the thing I don't understand, why does Hogan get blamed here, and not Jerry Jarrett? You know, the guy in charge. The decision maker. The boss. In fact, I don't think his name has shown up in this thread at all.

As far as I know, Hogan didn't hold a gun to Jarrett's head and forced Jarrett to hire him. Jarrett doesn't have to give him ANY political control. Hogan can not make any actual decisions, just run things through Jarrett, right? Heck, at least in WWE, Hogan DID make McMahon money in his first run, thus earning some political clout. He's made NWA-TNA nothing, so they owe him nothing.

Shouldn't a corrupt police officer be fired? And if he/she is not, isn't that the police's chiefs fault for allowing him/her to continue his/her corrupt acts. Even in WCW, Hogan wouldn't have had TOTAL CREATIVE CONTROL if somebody hadn't made the decision to give it to him, right?

For better or worse, if you give somebody the power to make decisions, he/she is going to do just that. If they are bad, perhaps somebody should take that power away. Given all that has been said here, I still don't think Hogan purposely ran WCW into the ground. Sure, he has an ego, and probably thinks he was the solution. But given that, he probably though he was doing what was best for the company, too. But if he wasn't, it's up to the guys in charge to correct the situation, removing power if necessary. (which is what is exactly what happened in WWE, Hogan didn't like his direction, the WWE didn't cave, and sent him on his merry way)

If this doesn't work out, Jarrett is to blame. He knows what he is getting with Hogan, and is banking on the good to outweigh the bad. If it doesn't, Jarrett is the one who made a bad decision.





Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by ges7184
    Shouldn't a corrupt police officer be fired? And if he/she is not, isn't that the police's chiefs fault for allowing him/her to continue his/her corrupt acts. Even in WCW, Hogan wouldn't have had TOTAL CREATIVE CONTROL if somebody hadn't made the decision to give it to him, right?


It's both of their fault. The police chief is at fault for turning a blind eye but that doesn't justify the corrupt actions of the officer. It still doesn't excuse the officer's behavior or make it acceptable.

I was blaming NWATNA and therefore the Jarrett's but pointing out what they've gotten themselves into with Hogan.

It seems like every promoter over the years has thought that they can change guys like Hogan and Nash. Like somehow the headaches won't happen to them.

So far out of this NWATNA/Hogan deal we've seen no live appearance from Hogan, taped footage from New Japan, a PPV announced then cancelled, Hogan's buddies in prominent positions in the company, and yet no Hogan or no gurantee of Hogan.

I do blame Jarrett for getting himself into this mess but it still doesn't excuse Hogan's history and politics.
LotusMegami
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Since: 22.9.03
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
The value of a person does not depend on how much that person draws as a wrestler. If Hogan sabotaged a wrestler who never drew a tenth as much money as him, that is still wrong.

My own personal definition of sin: Treating people like things.

Wrestling characters are things. The athletes themselves are people. That's way screwing over a character is ok. Screwing over a person is wrong.



And if you think that its fake try to receive a chokeslam, a sweet chin music or a spear without scream or drop a tear..
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Since: 3.1.02
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
    Originally posted by LotusMegami
    The value of a person does not depend on how much that person draws as a wrestler. If Hogan sabotaged a wrestler who never drew a tenth as much money as him, that is still wrong.

    My own personal definition of sin: Treating people like things.

    Wrestling characters are things. The athletes themselves are people. That's way screwing over a character is ok. Screwing over a person is wrong.


If Hulk Hogan screwed over, say, Steve Austin... Steve Austin is a character (a thing) that Steve Williams (a person) plays for a living. Castrating the character castrates the man playing him, so that (by your definition) is wrong.



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Since: 9.1.02
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.09
I hate to break it to you guys, but if you really think that Benoit, Jericho, and every other "favorite" of this board hasn't done exactly what Hogan's done to keep their spot and try to more higher, then I've got some swamp land for ya'.

It's a profession of cheats and liars, try to remember that before one person is villified as "Satan" because we've built up others as our heros.

Hogan shouldn't be thought of as shit simply because he was more successful than anyone else, and certainly not because he can't do a fucking moonsault, which seems more than not to be the deciding factor in how great a human being we consider a wrestler to be.


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Since: 2.1.02
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
Vader sucking is a subjective point, so that's not really a valid criticism on your part. For the record, I've got nothing against Vader. I just don't think he is/was great. He's never impressed me, and I have seen a lot of that Japan WCW stuff. I won't call him a legend. A legend can't be leveraged into saying "I'm a fat piece of shit" on television.

Hulk Hogan, a legend, was leveraged into changing his character to Terry Bollea, dressing in Steve Austin's clothing, and using hip catchphrases like "FUNB". Watching him at that point was no more embarrassing than watching Vader call himself a fat piece of shit.

People get old. Vader was a shell of himself at that point, as Hogan was when he did the stuff I just mentioned, and is at this point today. Can Hogan do TNA good? Probably... Much more so than Vader, but quite frankly, outside of The Rock and perhaps Steve Austin, not many people COULD upstage Hogan.

Hogan CAN do TNA good...but likely will not. The influx of Jimmy Hart and friends has already become the most important part of TNA - and is taking away from the stars who were already there. Hogan himself WOULD be fine. Hogan, Jimmy Hart, Jim Duggan, Rick Steiner, and GOD knows who else is going to come in is a waste of our time. The time spent on these guys in main events is time not spent building a competitor for Jeff Jarrett, be it a rematch with AJ Styles, a new feud with Raven, or whatever... They're delaying elevations of people I haven't mentioned so they can squeeze a couple of weeks out of the old and useless - because they want to cater to this Hogan feud that is going to culminate at that PPV that is currently unscheduled and will air at Some Undetermined Point.

I like TNA very much, but I'm not turning a blind eye to the blatant Hogan show we're watching. It's not 1994 anymore when these moves are questionable but MIGHT pay off. All the players are now 10 years older, and are not coming off good to successful runs in the WWF. They're coming off of the failed XWF, which failed because NOBODY wants to pay money to these same people. (Aside from me and Brian Knobbs, come on, can't YOU GO FOR AN INTERVIEW THAT MAKES NO SENSE BUT IS REALLY REALLY LOUD???)

I've given up this fight already though, and have already come to the conclusion my bitching about it is NOT going to cause a difference, and fuck, I'm MUCH MORE annoyed with things like Vince vs. Stephanie, or Shane McMahon presents RAW IS SHANE.

I imagine I could tie these thoughts into some sort of long winded article except I don't really have a point here - other than Hogan is good, but the people he brings with him that alter the direction of television are not. And to say he's not because only 2 or 3 people who won't be around long have arrived, stay tuned.... 2 or 3 changes into 9 or 10, and a 1 time deal changes to 5 time deal in a hurry.



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Since: 22.9.03
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
If you mean castration literally...then you could cut off Stone colds balls without *actually* cutting off Steve William's balls.

Kinda like you can electrocute Shane O'Mac's balls without harming Vince's chances of having grandkids.

Take for example - the Rock screwing Hogan at No Way Out = Not wrong. Screwing my baby at Survivor Series 97 = wrong.

work = fiction
shoot = real

Now, harming the character can mean harming the actor, who has pride, dignity, and bills to pay. I can't see Austin looking very tough after becoming a eunuch.

Dear God I hope Vince doesn't read this.










And if you think that its fake try to receive a chokeslam, a sweet chin music or a spear without scream or drop a tear..
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.65
    Originally posted by darkdragoon
    Doesn't matter if it never happened to hogan before, the 'internal injuries' thing is always a copout finish. smearing blood is very low-budget and even then not near the mutoh scale undertaker thing in HIAC. while it works on a superstar billy graham's karma thing, it's not like brocks' beaten anyone else with the bearhug. plus how did that put him over any more than flair and rock?


    I am talking from a "mark"p.o.v. here..
    Well..up to that point many did not give Brock an iota of a chance to be up to Rock's level and take the title at SS.
    By beating Hogan, people took notice of Brock, and mostly in the way he did it. He destroyed the man that cannot be beaten, and smeared his blood over himself while grinning like a mad man standing over his prone body.
    You can deny it, but that moment made Brock twice the man he was. At that point marks too realised he could beat The Rock and could even destroy him..

    However, what is interesting, it doesn't matter if Hogan vetoed a pin or what not..the way they did play it made Brock look more badass than anything else they could have come up with. Except maybe 5 consecutive powerbombs

    As for many of Hogan's other deeds and dealings..well..
    It *is* noticable that suddenly a few of the Hogan era WCW/WWF guys show up..
    Most other old timers they have used have been NWA/WCW legends..



    *sigh* Why bother?
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.93
Whoa Hogan's son is pretty dumb.
CRZ
Big Brother
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
Hey Justin, this thread misses you. :)



CRZ
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I'm thrilled to see the return of the wrestling interview, and this tidbit explains a lot It appears it is common knowledge to men in the industry like Mr Newz, but it was one of those things I never understood.
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