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The W - Pro Wrestling - TNA Freaking Sucks (Rant)
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Michrome
Head cheese








Since: 2.1.03

Since last post: 3642 days
Last activity: 2708 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I just love seeing a promotion sacrafice everything it built its fanbase with (good matches) in order to build to some "big" Hulk Hogan vs. Jeff Jarrett match. Tonight's show was mind-numbingly bad, Hacksaw Jim Duggan was the surprise for those that don't know, and it looks like Hogan is bringing in all of his buddies again. It's just like WCW in 1994, rushed heel turns for a big main event, the phasing out of great workers, and the returns of shitty workers. Hey Hulk Hogan, fuck you.

At least next week is Jarrett vs. Sting, which may be watchable. Tune in 2 weeks from now, when Horace will step up for his uncle. You saw it first here.
Promote this thread!
Big G
Morcilla








Since: 21.8.03
From: the people who brought you Steel Magnolias....

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.04
And here was me thinking it would be 'Tugboat'. Ah well, I can hope ;)



Warrior Quote: "Presuming initial consensualness, where exactly do we draw the lines of our judgment pinning down the responsibility and accountability inextricably attached to each human life? "

Umm Indeed!
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 4 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.91
Vince Russo isn't looking so bad right about now, is he?




Place your bets! How long before this man is on the shelf again?
Michrome
Head cheese








Since: 2.1.03

Since last post: 3642 days
Last activity: 2708 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
It's like they replaced dried shit with wet, smelly shit.

(edited by Michrome on 29.10.03 1954)
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21
Michrome, you sound like a 5-year-old. Are you 5? If you tell me you're five, I'll completely commend you for your wonderful points. If not, you're embarrassing yourself.

Now let's just take some time to point out some of the rampant falsehoods you quite admirably managed to place in the span of 40 words.

First of all, TNA hasn't built a fanbase at all. The word build carries an implication of growth. Their audience hasn't grown. If anything they're doing less buys than they were before.

Jim Duggan isn't one of Hogan's buddies. He's not in Hogan's camp, never was, never will be. He's just a guy who has been over for 25 some-odd years. Now considering that past TNA surprises included other old guys, like Nikita Koloff, Vader, Dusty Rhodes, and the Rock N Roll Express, I don't see why Jim Duggan is the one guy that disturbs you. The older fellas being brought in are a feature of TNA, and have been for a while. Who were you expecting? Or were you just expecting to complain regardless of who it was?

Just like WCW in 1994? You mean they're on the verge of signing stars and taking steps towards over a year of crushing ratings victories over Vince McMahon?

Or are you referring to the long-awaited return of Ric Flair to WCW, which somehow they managed to turn into a ratings failure? Yeah, there was a lot of room at the top of WCW's cards in those days, young guys like Steamboat, Vader, Flair, Sting, and Rick Rude were really making their mark for the first time ever in nineteen-ninty-freakin' four. There were also great booking concepts like the International Title/World Title fiasco, and buzzwords that always generated interest like "Thundercage", which to me sounds like an STD a long shoreman might contract. But we can't discount those WCW midcards of the day, featuring future legends like Dustin Rhodes, Shockmaster, Bunkhouse Buck, and Maxx Payne. Bitch, please! I grow weary of the unresearched claims fanboys make that WCW was so great until Hogan got there, and he single-handedly sunk it. (Which is not to say Turner-ville didn't have bright spots like Austin, Pillman, and...uh...Thunder and Lightning?)

Here's a question. If you thought the old stuff was "dried shit", why were you spending your money on it in the first place? And please don't say to spite WWE...


(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 29.10.03 2340)


What do you call Albert Einstein beatin' off?
Give up?
A stroke of genius!
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3187 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.10
Granted, Michrome does have some of his facts wrong, but I think his overall point is still valid. Bringing in guys like Vader and Dusty is different from what they did this week for a couple of reasons:

1. Vader and Dusty Rhodes are much bigger names than Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

2. Hacksaw Jim Duggan was the payoff to a "big surprise" angle that's supposed to be part of the build to the biggest match in TNA history.

I'm sorry, but how hyping a big surprise to come after the company's champion and having it turn out to be Duggan is suppsoed to be a good idea completely escapes me. If that doesn't scream 'letdown', I don't know what would. If Duggan is the best surprise they can offer, they shouldn't be offering big surprises in their top angle at all. All it does is condition the fans to be disappointed and lower expectations. I can't quite figure out how that is supposed to help you attract new fans.

Bringing in Bobby Eaton to be part of Kid Kash's legend killer angle in the midcard is one thing; building your fans' main event hopes for a week giving them Duggan is quite another.

(edited by BigVitoMark on 30.10.03 0001)
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21
Well, I didn't know it was in that context, as I haven't been paying attention to TNA. But all the same, who is left? It's all well and good to say Duggan was a bad choice, but what available names were there? I can't think of anyone.





What do you call Albert Einstein beatin' off?
Give up?
A stroke of genius!
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 3506 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.25
Duggan may not be one of Hogan's friends, but Hogan recommend him for WCW, and the XWF, not to mention the Jimmy Hart connections.

uh, does TNA have 2 years to wait for more superstars and the ability to think of a major storyline?
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2484 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
I have to agree with Michrome on this one too. Granted, I don't poop on the older guys since I grew up on most of them. But, HACKSAW?! I mean, I really don't mind the whole idea of Hogan and Jarrett, but when the title is suddenly surrounded by the geriatrics (and Jeff Jarrett, lol), it makes you wanna beg for the AJ Styles days, now doesn't it?

I had a feeling when AJ lost last week that this is where it was going to go, thus making me 100 percent right again for the Nth time this year.



After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...
1)I'm smarter than I was a year ago.
2)WWE isn't.
3) I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II.
1300 bitches and counting....
Michrome
Head cheese








Since: 2.1.03

Since last post: 3642 days
Last activity: 2708 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Hogan brought Duggan into WCW too, just like he brought in all of his shitty friends while completely phasing out the young, talented wrestlers like Cactus Jack and Steve Austin. In fact, it was Jim Duggan that squashed Steve Austin in a matter of seconds at Fall Brawl 1996 in one of the most embarrasing burial attempts I've ever seen. WCW popped some big buyrates for the novelty of Hogan's dream matches, but fans completely turned on him by early-mid 95, and were booing him out of the building to the point that he took a hiatus from TV. That's why his big heel turn worked so well. In addition, the huge ratings victories of 96 and 97 had a hell of a lot more to do with the NWO than they did with Hogan in particular, although Hogan definitely added to their mystique. Unless Mantell has something up his sleeve as novel and cool as the NWO, this company is going bankrupt.

--Jim Duggan is a fucking joke. He hasn't had a good match since the mid 80s, and it totally makes the promotion look like second class when you build up a big surprise and have Jim Duggan as the payoff. They could have used Terry Funk, who can at least be entertaining sometimes. And if you can't deliver on a surprise, don't promise one! Instead of Raven, AJ Styles, and Low Ki in the main event picture, it's now back to Jarrett, Sting, Rick Steiner, Jim Duggan, and Hulk Hogan. To quote Schivaonne: "Yeah, that's gonna put some butts in the seats, hyeh."

--They have indeed built a fanbase. The fact that 10,000 or so people buy the show weekly indicates that a certain amount of people enjoyed the product for what it is. This is called building a fanbase. The fans watch almost every show. Are you braindead? I never said that buyrates were going up.

--Early 1994 was fabulous, Spring Stampede is one of the best shows ever, and Slamboree was great as well. I was one who watched through the hell in 1993, and saw them do a pretty good job of turning it around in early 1994 until Flair was made to look like a jobber and never recovered. Hogan destroyed Vader's credibility as a heel forever as well.
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3187 days
Last activity: 3096 days
ICQ:  
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.10
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Well, I didn't know it was in that context, as I haven't been paying attention to TNA. But all the same, who is left? It's all well and good to say Duggan was a bad choice, but what available names were there? I can't think of anyone.




How about this...if you don't have a good payoff, don't go with the surprise storyline. Better to work on a different angle than to disappoint your fans. Disappointment stings, and will hurt the anticipation for future similar angles where the payoff might be worthwhile.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1796 days
Last activity: 1730 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22
"Or are you referring to the long-awaited return of Ric Flair to WCW, which somehow they managed to turn into a ratings failure? Yeah, there was a lot of room at the top of WCW's cards in those days, young guys like Steamboat, Vader, Flair, Sting, and Rick Rude were really making their mark for the first time ever in nineteen-ninty-freakin' four. There were also great booking concepts like the International Title/World Title fiasco, and buzzwords that always generated interest like "Thundercage", which to me sounds like an STD a long shoreman might contract. But we can't discount those WCW midcards of the day, featuring future legends like Dustin Rhodes, Shockmaster, Bunkhouse Buck, and Maxx Payne. Bitch, please! I grow weary of the unresearched claims fanboys make that WCW was so great until Hogan got there, and he single-handedly sunk it. (Which is not to say Turner-ville didn't have bright spots like Austin, Pillman, and...uh...Thunder and Lightning?)"

So if Hogan didn't steer WCW onto the rocks....who did? I'd love to hear your ideas on the subject. Up until 2000-the point when they were bleeding money and nothing could save them-Hulk and his similarly-aged pals were the top dogs, made to look like superstars at the expense of everything else on the show.

"Just like WCW in 1994? You mean they're on the verge of signing stars and taking steps towards over a year of crushing ratings victories over Vince McMahon?"

They didn't sign said stars 'til 1996, and even then it had nothing do with WCW's "break-out success" and everything to do with Turner's bottomless wallet. The Hulkster didn't provide ANY tangible influx of money until 1996 when, admittedly, he done good. The concept, of course, was ripped straight out of Japan by The Bisch and was in no way roginal, but it worked. HOWEVER, like everything Hulk does, it outstayed it's welcome to the point of mind-numbing tediousness. THEN, when THAT finally went belly-up, we were treated to yet more ego-massaging booking throughout '99, with Hogan/Flair and Hogan/Sting BOTH being submitted as credible main-event matches at least five years too late.

And before you go hurling the label of smark at me, check my record around here. I'm one of the least snide guys you'll find.






Murdoch Had Just Made A Mistake That No Man Ever Should-He Kissed A Big Angry Black Guy

fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3071 days
Last activity: 3071 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
Hogan gave WCW an initial boost when he arrived in 94 but the crowds quickly grew tired of him and his boys (Starrcade - Hogan vs Leslie?!) and business slipped off until the Flair/Savage program started to turn around the house shows in late '95 and early '96. Just in time for Hogan to make his grand return, use his creative control to put himself into the nWo angle, and help lead WCW infront of WWE.

NWATNA's a whole different animal. They're putting everything on Hogan getting them a TV deal and by using the Hogan/Hart Crew they'll alienate their current very hardcore fanbase. If they get TV, great but after seeing Hogan operate for the past 20 years, I don't think he even plans on stepping foot in NWATNA. It's just leverage against McMahon, hoping Vince will bite. Vince didn't so Hogan takes an out with the knee surgery and we'll do this song and dance again in January. Maybe if Vince doesn't bite, Hogan will work NWATNA.

Then will they get a TV deal? Hart shopped around the Hogan based XWF to everyone and no one went for it. I don't see them going for it this time around.

In the meantime, NWATNA turns into a place where Hogan and Hart's buddies can get a payday.

I'm just happy I'm not home on Wednesday nights anymore so I don't have to watch Hacksaw Jim Duggan as a mystery man.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.20
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero

    So if Hogan didn't steer WCW onto the rocks....who did? I'd love to hear your ideas on the subject. Up until 2000-the point when they were bleeding money and nothing could save them-Hulk and his similarly-aged pals were the top dogs, made to look like superstars at the expense of everything else on the show.





It wasn't just Hogan, that's my only point here. Yes he was on top, but he was also absent for weeks at a time. He wasn't the one who booked himself to win WWIII and then ended Goldberg's streak. And if he was such a cancer, you'd think once he was amputated from Turnerland things would have gotten better. But they didn't. They got worse. All that "saviour" talent like Benoit and Guerrero and Jericho moved to WWE, and did any of them become company-carrying superstars? Jericho, arguably, and the others, no. The only guy WCW really dropped the ball on was Steve Austin.

I just don't like when Hogan gets all the blame. WCW was run like a tree house boys' club, and honestly, considering some of their fortunes in the early-to-mid ninties I think any claim they wouldn't eventually have gone out of business anyway is farcical at best. Foley describes many WCW events no one wanted to go to in his book, but before the days of Hogan, they didn't know how to keep people happy, treat their talent right, or book good shows consistently. Just because that didn't change when Hogan came around, and he took advantage of it, doesn't mean he should automatically get the blame.

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero


    They didn't sign said stars 'til 1996, and even then it had nothing do with WCW's "break-out success" and everything to do with Turner's bottomless wallet. The Hulkster didn't provide ANY tangible influx of money until 1996 when, admittedly, he done good. The concept, of course, was ripped straight out of Japan by The Bisch and was in no way roginal, but it worked. HOWEVER, like everything Hulk does, it outstayed it's welcome to the point of mind-numbing tediousness. THEN, when THAT finally went belly-up, we were treated to yet more ego-massaging booking throughout '99, with Hogan/Flair and Hogan/Sting BOTH being submitted as credible main-event matches at least five years too late.

    And before you go hurling the label of smark at me, check my record around here. I'm one of the least snide guys you'll find.





Well, I never claimed it had to do with WCW's breakout success. Hogan provided an initial boost, and it faded. But if we can blame bookers for everyone else inability to get over, we should blame them for Hogan's as well. He was booked in ridiculous angles, particularly one where he sided with OJ Simpson, shaved off his moustache and wore a cape and claimed to be evil. Now all you anti-Hogans can say he overstays his welcome till you're blue in the face, but that booking must have played a role in the audience turning on him.

As for Flair, or Sting, what I want to know is why they stayed on top in the NWA and WCW for as long as they did and never got any flak. Flair may have jobbed a lot, but he always managed to find his way back to the title. If you think he didn't protect his spot, you spew lies.

And oldschool, I would never hurl any labels at you. Even if we disagree, you stay away from juvenile cursing and make good points. I have no problem with you.

    Originally posted by Michrome

    --They have indeed built a fanbase. The fact that 10,000 or so people buy the show weekly indicates that a certain amount of people enjoyed the product for what it is. This is called building a fanbase. The fans watch almost every show. Are you braindead? I never said that buyrates were going up.

    --Early 1994 was fabulous, Spring Stampede is one of the best shows ever, and Slamboree was great as well. I was one who watched through the hell in 1993, and saw them do a pretty good job of turning it around in early 1994 until Flair was made to look like a jobber and never recovered. Hogan destroyed Vader's credibility as a heel forever as well.



Okay, first you say they are building a fanbase and then you say the buyrates aren't going up. If you think I'm braindead, champ, perhaps you need to look up the definition of BUILDING. The Torch reported in August that they were getting 10 000 buys a MONTH, not a week. Which is down from the numbers they initially drew. I don't know where they're at now. Either way, this is not an acceptable definition of building.

Vader doesn't deserve credibility, as his scissor-related exchanges with Arn prove. And no man who gets punched out by a one-armed Paul Orndorff deserves credibility. Vader wasn't exactly the Rock, guys. He got over, but it wasn't like he was on his way to being a legend. And since few if any WWF fans saw what Vader did in WCW, the fact was he got over AGAIN in the WWF, and he eventually failed there too. Again, conspiracy theorists say he was sabotaged, for a second time. These conspiracy theorists fail to point out, however, that the rocky mountain talk-show-host-slapping Vader just wasn't that good.

Spring Stampede 1994 drew a 0.53 buyrate, whether it was "fabulous" or not. Considering the fact Danny Bonaduce wrestled on that show, I'd feel better if you checked the definition of the word fabulous as well. Anyway, if WCW was so great, tell me why the show you laud drew a shitty number? Or were they "building" an audience at the time...

    Originally posted by BigVitoMark

    --How about this...if you don't have a good payoff, don't go with the surprise storyline. Better to work on a different angle than to disappoint your fans. Disappointment stings, and will hurt the anticipation for future similar angles where the payoff might be worthwhile.



You got my vote, brother. But people with logic like you and I don't qualify to run wrestling companies. You have to be certifiably insane to get that opportunity.




What do you call Albert Einstein beatin' off?
Give up?
A stroke of genius!
King Of Crap
Goetta








Since: 17.9.03
From: Holley, New York

Since last post: 3286 days
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AIM:  
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.69
I thought it was Sid Vicious that attacked Arn with the scissors.

Scissors: better than a squeegee.



You think WWE now is bad? Some of us had to live through 1993-1996!
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 40 min.
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.86
It was Sid that attacked Arn with the scissors. Anybody that confuses Vader with Sid Vicious deserves to meet Vader in a dark alley.
Big G
Morcilla








Since: 21.8.03
From: the people who brought you Steel Magnolias....

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.04
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Well, I didn't know it was in that context, as I haven't been paying attention to TNA. But all the same, who is left? It's all well and good to say Duggan was a bad choice, but what available names were there? I can't think of anyone.




Tugboat Dagnamitt!!

I just like his little hat.
:)



Warrior Quote: "Presuming initial consensualness, where exactly do we draw the lines of our judgment pinning down the responsibility and accountability inextricably attached to each human life? "

Umm Indeed!
Michrome
Head cheese








Since: 2.1.03

Since last post: 3642 days
Last activity: 2708 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
The buyrate Spring Steampede drew was better than every WCW buyrate in 1993 except for Starrcade, which it barely lost out to. If Keller reported 10,000 a month, he and Metlzer have far different number sources, that's for sure. Meltzer reports 8,000-11,000 per show, and we all know who's more accurate between the 2.

Building a fanbase is the process of creating a base of fans that loves the product and will be there for hot and cold periods. WCW had a diehard fanbase that didn't even leave them when things were freaking horrible because they were so strongly attached to WCW. TNA, in it's first year and then some, was striving to achieve a perfect blend that would keep a consistent number of people happy. Now that they've got Hogan, they seem to have completely abandoned it.

And about Vader, I don't know what to say to you other than: His match with Hogan drew a really good number for a reason, he was a monster, he had a bunch of ****+ matches in WCW, and he's a legend in Japan. He damn sure was on his way to being a U.S. legend if not for the work of Hogan and then the work of Vince Russo.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3071 days
Last activity: 3071 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    He wasn't the one who booked himself to win WWIII and then ended Goldberg's streak.


Hogan and Nash worked the boys by "feuding" backstage, Hogan took of on his fake Retirement and Presedential campaign, leaving Nash to be the one to book himself over Goldberg. In return, the Finger Poke of Doom.

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Just because that didn't change when Hogan came around, and he took advantage of it, doesn't mean he should automatically get the blame.


It doesn't mean he shouldn't get any blame either. He deserves a large chunk of it, IMO.

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    But if we can blame bookers for everyone else inability to get over, we should blame them for Hogan's as well. He was booked in ridiculous angles, particularly one where he sided with OJ Simpson, shaved off his moustache and wore a cape and claimed to be evil. Now all you anti-Hogans can say he overstays his welcome till you're blue in the face, but that booking must have played a role in the audience turning on him.


Hogan had supreme Creative Control, the others did not. Hogan didn't have to do anything other then what he wanted to do. He chose who he worked with, when he worked them and who booked the shows. Maybe you'd wonder why when he's making so much guaranteed money, why be in every Main Event? Well he got like 15% of the gross out of any PPV he Main Evented. It isn't his fault that he got such a sweetheart deal, that's Turner's fault, but just because you can be an asshole, doesn't mean you have to be an asshole. And if you chose to be one, you're still an asshole.

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    As for Flair, or Sting, what I want to know is why they stayed on top in the NWA and WCW for as long as they did and never got any flak. Flair may have jobbed a lot, but he always managed to find his way back to the title. If you think he didn't protect his spot, you spew lies.


Flair's as guilty of politics as any top guy. The reason you don't hear about it as much is because it was pretty damn hard for anyone to question whether Flair deserved to be there or not.

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Vader doesn't deserve credibility, as his scissor-related exchanges with Arn prove. And no man who gets punched out by a one-armed Paul Orndorff deserves credibility. Vader wasn't exactly the Rock, guys. He got over, but it wasn't like he was on his way to being a legend.


Vader is a legend and probably behind Bruiser Brody, the best big man to ever lace up a pair of boots. He's also probably made more money then a handful of guys in history. Vader didn't do the scissor thing either. The Orndorff thing happened when Vader was stoned out of his mind on pain medication because Bischoff wouldn't let him take time off to heal his multitude of injuries.

Vader didn't deserve to have Hogan double cross him in the ring at Uncensored 95 by no-selling his finisher in an unplanned spot leading to an unplanned DQ finish.

In 1994 with television, with Turner's bottomless pockets, the gamble on Hulk Hogan paid off because it gave Vince competition and advanced the industry with the Monday Night Wars. However, in 2003, with no television and little money, the gamble on a 9 year older Hogan and his gang of retreads to POSSIBLY land a TV deal even when XWF couldn't, is too big, IMO. When the dust settles, TNA won't have a TV deal, they won't have Hogan, they'll be further in the hole, and they'll have alienated their fanbase, however small it may be.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.20
    Originally posted by InVerse
    It was Sid that attacked Arn with the scissors. Anybody that confuses Vader with Sid Vicious deserves to meet Vader in a dark alley.


Oh yeah.

Oops.

Psst...Vader still sucks.

And Feul, whether you think Flair deserves it or not, Hogan's spot came from years of drawing the biggest money in the business. I don't think Vader is a legend, perhaps in Japan but this ain't Japan. Hogan shouldn't have no-sold that finisher but if the Warrior can no-sell five macho man elbow drops Hogan can no sell a powerbomb. Ancient history. Hogan is Hogan, he is wrestling (or has the perception) and he will get handouts till the end of time because of that fact. The sooner you all get over that and learn to accept it, whether you agree with it or not, the happier you'll be.
I'm serious. I can't argue in favour of every move he makes, or has made, but I learned to respect him in WWE when he put over Angle and Lesnar like a man. He will always get the benefit of the doubt, and I'm not saying you have to like it, but how many times can the same group of people get mad over the same thing, before they're just oversensitive?


(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 30.10.03 1555)

What do you call Albert Einstein beatin' off?
Give up?
A stroke of genius!
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