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The W - Pro Wrestling - TNA Bound for Glory results and discussion
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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 93 days
Last activity: 60 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.54
(apologies to CRZ. I thought there was one PPV thread, pre and post, for each show. I guess I'm just used to mega threads on DVDVR.)

MCMG d. GenMe
Tara d. Velvet to win the KO title.
Ink, Inc. d. Orlando Jordan & Eric Young
Lethal d. Williams
RVD d. Abyss
Sting/Nash/Pope d. Samoa Joe
EV2.0 d. Fortune in Lethal Lockdown
Jeff Hardy d. Mr. Anderson & Kurt Angle

Hardy turns heel. Jarrett turns heel.

---

Oddly, I don't remember what I posted in the thread that CRZ erased, or I'd post it again.



Mark Coale
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ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.35
Sorry, you're probably not the guy that forced me to close these things. I guess I've been unconsciously doing it for months and have long since forgotten. Here's what you said over there:
    Originally posted by odessasteps
    you can always count on TNA for doing the least obvious and logical thing in the name of the swerve.
We anxiously await the kneejerk response from the usual suspects



Tyler Durden
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.09
Wow, what a response to the "biggest show of the year" (including the "biggest swerve EVER"). I hope this board doesn't break down! :D
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 10 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.78
    Originally posted by Tyler Durden
    Wow, what a response to the "biggest show of the year" (including the "biggest swerve EVER"). I hope this board doesn't break down! :D


What's worse than pissing off your audience? Total apathy.

I actually think it was CRZ that originally said something like that. (Obviously paraphrasing there)




We're flying a giant orange "CONAN" blimp over the baseball playoffs. Finally, subtlety in advertising.
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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
Jeff Hardy as a heel. Jeff Hardy. As a heel. Heel Jeff Hardy. Jeff Hardy, heel. Astounding. From the people who brought you heel Goldberg.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
I don't know. I bought the PPV thought it was good. MCMG vs Generation Me was worth most of the price of admission. The KO match had a botch finish, but it was good for what it was. Mickie being in the division can only help. Did not like the comedy match with OJ/EY and Ink Inc. Lethal/Williams was good, not great, it needed a few more minutes. RVD/Abyss was again good not great, RVD's bump with the chair hit to the barbed wire table was sick and the right guy went over. JJ's turn was a bit shocking and Joe facing off on all three was a good moment. Lethal Lockdown was just ok with the wrong people going over. The main event was great and I liked the finish. Granted, what they do with Jeff at this point is an unknown.

Its also not that big of a swerve for Hogan & Bischoff to be They. Now, I think all of us saw it coming, but its interesting how it played out. Hogan asked Joe to help JJ and he got his ass kicked. Bischoff and Hogan were playing favorites with Kurt and Anderson when really it was Jeff as the golden child. Its not a bad plan. They feed Joe to Nash and Sting, Kurt in storyline terms is retired, they have the belt and the only RVD and Anderson are left in their way. Anderson who trusts no one and RVD who will have to go through They before he can he sniff a title shot. Sting is proven right that Dixie shouldn't have trusted Hogan and Bischoff. Abyss will be rehired defying Dixie. Its probably the longest way to get a point I have ever seen as well.

Now, how this is all going to play out with Fortune, EV2.0 and the alliance of Sting/Nash/Pope? Flair outright said Fortune was made to help protect them from They. You would think RVD would enlist EV2.0 for help. What is Joe going to do after being punked out and are there more members of They? It all makes for an interesting storylines, now will they be good storylines who knows. Yet, all of these storylines came from the PPV and some paid off in the PPV. Isn't that part of the Lance Storm plan of building something to a PPV and then paying it off either via match or moment of seeing it Live?

Turning Jeff is dangerous. I was there a month ago for a TNA house show for a small crowd he got a tremendous pop bigger then Joe, Pope and so on. Yet, out of the three Kurt/Anderson/Jeff one of them had to turn heel mainly due to the ME being packed by faces if you add RVD to the mix. Kurt would have been the most logical one, but its been done. Anderson has tweener for awhile and heel since day, so it was too obvious to be him. Jeff turning is a shock. I don't know if he has ever been a heel before? If he has its been a long time. Its almost as big as turning Cena which WWE just refuses to do. It also got the reaction, it needed with the fans throwing garbage into the ring ala Hogan's turn at Bash at the Beach. How Jeff sells it will be up to his promo skills and some logic. He can't just keep quiet like Sting did, he needs reasons for it and good ones. If the reasoning is flawed then they are screwed.

I know I am the lone TNA defender, but the PPV delivered and I am glad I got it. A few great matchs with some good ones, Team 3D's announcement was handled very well and I look forward to that match with the Guns. The PPV did what it is supposed to do or least hopefully will do. It ended MCMG/Generation Me, Kurt's run for the title and Fortune/EV2.0 while moving to other stories. It also had a number of moments and I am a moment guy. Jeff turning was a shocker, Joe facing off against the trio after JJ betrayed him, Mickie punking out Madison and Team 3D's announcement was good enough for me. Now where we go from here, is really up in the air and very well could crash and burn. Still, I am very curious.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I know I am the lone TNA defender, but the PPV delivered and I am glad I got it.


Don't get me wrong, all the response I've read has said it was a really good wrestling show. Thanks to Angle, TNA PPVs seem to be beating most WWE PPVs in-ring pretty much by forfeit. Imag(eye)nation World Order though ... amazin'. Logic would tell me Fourtune turns face to keep Hogan and Flair opposite and since they're cheered anyway? But TNA has never shown a reluctance to have multiple heel stables going at once, it's their favorite thing this side of tournaments.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 11.10.10 0907)
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
I would like someone to explain to me exactly what THEY hope to accomplish, why it was necessary for them to spend three months working in secret, why they would allow Abyss to talk week after week about the conspiracy on TV, why JJ even bothered teaming with and screwing over Joe, why Hogan and Bischoff even have to BOTHER making a covert power-grab when it's been stated time and again that Dixie has handed them the keys to the kingdom, why Bischoff didn't put Abyss into the title tournament, and really just WHAT WAS THE DAMN POINT.

I'd also like to know why you turn the one genuine, nationawide-famous main-event face that's ascended in the last three years or so.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    I'd also like to know why you turn the one genuine, nationawide-famous main-event face that's ascended in the last three years or so.


You gotta understand, bro, nobody would expect Bret Hart to turn right after his brother died.
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    But TNA has never shown a reluctance to have multiple heel stables going at once, it's their favorite thing this side of tournaments.

    (edited by JustinShapiro on 11.10.10 0907)


I dunno, I'd rank it third behind people stealing title belts.
Tyler Durden
Landjager








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.09
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      But TNA has never shown a reluctance to have multiple heel stables going at once, it's their favorite thing this side of tournaments.

      (edited by JustinShapiro on 11.10.10 0907)


    I dunno, I'd rank it third behind people stealing title belts.


Don't forget about the tag team partners who hate each other!
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    I would like someone to explain to me exactly what THEY hope to accomplish, why it was necessary for them to spend three months working in secret, why they would allow Abyss to talk week after week about the conspiracy on TV, why JJ even bothered teaming with and screwing over Joe, why Hogan and Bischoff even have to BOTHER making a covert power-grab when it's been stated time and again that Dixie has handed them the keys to the kingdom, why Bischoff didn't put Abyss into the title tournament, and really just WHAT WAS THE DAMN POINT.


    They want to take over the company and already half partners or at least Hogan is. I think it was actually longer then three months it might have been day one of Hogan being there. Dixie handed them keys with a string attached. Dixie very recently became more involved and flexed her muscle. She went toe to toe with Flair via promo, fired Abyss and helped decide the BFG main event. Now, did Hogan and Bischoff know that on day one they would have power, but not unlimited power or was it after a period of time like you said. An argument could be made that inviting EV2.0 to have their own PPV was the straw that broke the camel's back. There needs to be a very good promo in regards to this, but its not hard to follow a trail of Bischoff and Hogan coming in with the best of intentions only to have Dixie cockblocking them at times.

    They need the title to have power. In all wrestling companies, the world title is the ultimate power. It goes back to Austin/McMahon where Vince realistically should have fired Steve, but Austin had the belt which pretty much trumped even Vince's authority. The world title is the Infinity Gauntlet where logical bends to its will. Even being part owners, who have controls the world champ has the most power. Jeff may have come to them or vice versa in order to get the title which explains his insane matches with Kurt with no real winner. Eric was all about a three way thus putting Jeff into the match, but Dixie said no until the Impact match with the weird finish. Abyss was a tool and probably not the hardest person to manipulate. If Hogan or Eric put him in the tournament then it would have shown their hand. I think its more logical to say Jeff was the chosen one and Abyss is just the muscle.

    Jeff has a few good reasons to turn. One, Dixie kept him in the dark about Hogan. Two, he was fired by Eric and had to beg for his job back while Dixie watched on. Three, he knows enough about Hogan and Bischoff to know it was only a matter of time before they tried this especially if Sting kept bitching about it. Lastly, he saw Joe as another real threat to the title and had him eliminated. At the end of the day, the smart way to explain all of this is Dixie is not a good owner and they did what they did due to inability to leader and what is best for the company. If a few of them get some gold and/or job security then so be it. If its done right, it is going to be a very long promo ala Hogan at Bash at the Beach.



    I'd also like to know why you turn the one genuine, nationawide-famous main-event face that's ascended in the last three years or so.

    Its Crash TV. It also has not been done before with Jeff fan. Turning Kurt and Anderson has been done before especially Kurt, so he was the one person that would totally blow the mind's of the fans. Again, its dangerous almost as dangerous of turning Austin, but at least Jeff has people who he can feud with unlike Austin where they stupidly kept HHH while giving us multiple rounds of Taker before getting to Benoit/Jericho for a month then to Invasion where it all fell apart. Also, Jeff needs to give a reason and not make the close to fatal mistake of Austin not saying why he turned thus we just have to accept it. It made for a Holy Shit! moment to turn Jeff, but they have to execute with it. Hell, bring up Matt's insane tweets on how bad WWE is and he would rather align with stable people like Hogan and Bischoff. The cruel irony to that.



    (edited by lotjx on 11.10.10 0900)
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 13 min.
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
If I'm going to build a stable of power with three in-ring performers, Abyss and the Jeffs are ... interesting. Abyss hasn't been able to win a significant match since turning heel, Jarrett is far from his prime, and Hardy seems unstable.

Heel Hardy, I think, works better outside a corporate stable which They seem to be. The character is proudly nonconformist. Is he gonna take orders from Eric? I think this works best if he's completely repackaged, but we just saw that with Styles. If any They figure needs a reboot, it's Abyss. And I'd eagerly support that move. But I'm biased against JJ. He can do no right in my eyes.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
No angle should need such a long-winded, convoluted explanation. Hell, given Bischoff's power and their desire to control the world title, why not just screw van Dam when Bisch reffed their title match? It's a house of cards that's missing half a deck. And that's WITH a killer promo laying it all out, which both you and I know simply won't happen.

Also, the Austin turn is fucking Shakespeare compared to this.

(edited by Amos Cochran on 11.10.10 0921)
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 82 days
#15 Posted on
I haven't watched the show yet, but I did see the Knockouts match thanks to the Interwebnets. Mickie James' facials, by that I mean her facial expressions, are in a class by themselves. She could teach half the roster (the half that didn't come from WWE) how to tell a story just by furrowing her brow or wincing her eyes. She also had a funny "huh" look on her face as Angelina and Velvet did their entrance. It's been a while since Mickie wasn't PG: she made her bones feeling up Trish and kissing chicks. She should fit in just fine indeed in TNA.

Hey, speaking of Jeff's heel turn, wanna see some of the Worst Acting Ever from Matthew Moore Hardy? Also, man is he weird looking, even ugly.

(Warning: the following video contains SPOILERS.)




@BackoftheHead



www.backofthehead.com
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    No angle should need such a long-winded, convoluted explanation. Hell, given Bischoff's power and their desire to control the world title, why not just screw van Dam when Bisch reffed their title match? It's a house of cards that's missing half a deck. And that's WITH a killer promo laying it all out, which both you and I know simply won't happen.

    Also, the Austin turn is fucking Shakespeare compared to this.

    (edited by Amos Cochran on 11.10.10 0921)


The Austin turn was shocking and awesome thanks to a hot Texas crowd, the aftermath of Austin's turn was a disaster til it feel into corny with Kurt and survived long enough til Rock came back it helped. I think the idea of doing it now is to show up Dixie at the biggest PPV of the year for them. Why not do it in front of the biggest audience they will have all year? If Eric helped Abyss then they would be showing their cards. It also follows the Jeff Hardy being the chosen one theory if they use it again a big if. Abyss was never going to get the title and it was all about how much damage he could do to the roster especially to threats like RVD.

Most angles like these need a long winded convoluted explanation. Hogan's Bash at the Beach promo is about 15 minutes long as were most of HHH's speeches on forming DX without Shawn as was the creation of Evolution. Of course, HHH's promos average about 20 minutes anyway, but still it took time. Nexus had a long promo to explain their reasoning on why they destroyed the Raw set and Cena, I think everyone of them took the mic even Bryan, but I could be wrong about Bryan. You need to explain this stuff or everyone is going to be lost or think you have no idea what you are doing.

Now, I have no illusions this could fall apart and be worse then Austin or even heel Goldberg, but we won't know til Impact and maybe even a few weeks later. It really falls on to Jeff to sell this thing, he can not half ass it like Sting did in MEM. He has to be full committed to do this maybe even change the way he wrestles as well. I am not going to say the future of the company wrests on this, but they could do a lot of damage to themselves, its a giant risk they feel good to take. We shall see.

(edited by lotjx on 11.10.10 0944)
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
    Originally posted by lotjx
    If Eric helped Abyss then they would be showing their cards.


But if the edngame is to control the world title - which is all they've got out of this, really - then it's not "showing their cards", it's "getting the exact same result without months of crap conspiracy nonsense".

EDIT: And Hogan's BATB speech was character-based, not exposition. For this to make any sense they're gonna have retcon about a year's worth of plotholes.

(edited by Amos Cochran on 11.10.10 0944)
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
      Originally posted by lotjx
      If Eric helped Abyss then they would be showing their cards.


    But if the edngame is to control the world title - which is all they've got out of this, really - then it's not "showing their cards", it's "getting the exact same result without months of crap conspiracy nonsense".

    EDIT: And Hogan's BATB speech was character-based, not exposition. For this to make any sense they're gonna have retcon about a year's worth of plotholes.

    (edited by Amos Cochran on 11.10.10 0944)


Again, if Abyss is just the muscle and Jeff came to them or vice versa for the belt, it makes sense that they would wait til the right time. Use Abyss to get rid of Rob, put Jeff in the tournament and find away to get him into the Main Event without looking too suspicious. Even if you do look suspicious cast suspicion on Anderson as the one to look to turn heel while giving Kurt a false support. Then when the match is at a point where Jeff has a clear upper hand spring the trap.

Hogan's speech was both character and exposition. He had to explain it was him helping the NWO at times when logically they shouldn't be there. He also had to re-establish the main goal of taking over WCW and what the NWO order meant. At that point, I think Hall and Nash were just referred to the Outsiders, Hogan came up with NWO, I think. I am not 100% if he was the first person to use New World Order or not, but he did talk about it in that promo.

There are going to be plot holes in any story like this, but they have to avoid the giant ones. The giant one is like you stated why the subterfuge if they already had the power? Dixie being involved more is a good explanation for that as well as embarrassing her at their biggest PPV. Why did Jeff turn? Could be a number of reasons from not getting treated fairly by Dixie thus she was a female Vince in his eyes or just he saw the writing on the wall or the temptation was too great? Why not Abyss as the champ? He knew his role and did his job like a good soldier ie taking out Rob. Why Jarett there? He hated Dixie for giving Hogan and Bischoff the company as well as the way he had to beg for his job, so screw her.

I am sure there are other plot holes as well, but if they put in a time frame of just Dixie negotiating bringing in EV2.0 as well as Dixie doing things behind their backs, there won't be too many plot holes. I am not saying, we won't scratch our head over it, but stories like this one are going to have those. You just have to limit them. Can they who knows? I don't think its as impossible as you think it is, but it won't be easy and they can screw this up. As much as I am defending them on this turn of events, I can see it going downhill with the promo being utter shit.
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by John Orquiola

    Hey, speaking of Jeff's heel turn, wanna see some of the Worst Acting Ever from Matthew Moore Hardy? Also, man is he weird looking, even ugly.




Slightly OT, but I think it fits. That video explains why I became less and less of a Matt Hardy fan over time. Thanks to Twitter I followed Miz. I'd read his tweets about going to improv classes and such. Anyone who wants to be impartial can see how much Miz has improved over the past few years in every aspect of the business - in the ring, on the mic, and even his physique. He's improved because he's hungry for success. Matt Hardy never improved. Maybe he tried and just wasn't good enough to get better, but I "suspect" he became satisfied with the glory bestowed upon him by his fans and the complacency ruined him.

^Daniel Bryan never had mic time to explain Nexus. He was fired for using his tie to choke the announcer within a few days of the broadcast. His name was only mentioned to explain his absence.



"I'm on my time with everyone." - Kurt Cobain
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    Daniel Bryan never had mic time to explain Nexus. He was fired for using his tie to choke the announcer within a few days of the broadcast. His name was only mentioned to explain his absence.


It is amazing, preposterous that Bryan didn't do a single promo or even sentence addressing Nexus after he came back.
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