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23.9.19 0007
The W - Football - Tillman criticized (Page 2)
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bigtotoro
Linguica








Since: 16.2.04
From: houston

Since last post: 5514 days
Last activity: 4465 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.32
    Originally posted by Jaguar
      Originally posted by bigtotoro
      And as far as the military defending our freedoms, our freedom has been threatened in war once. And it was the first one we were in. Our freedoms were not threatened in WW2(unless of course you were Japanese and then it's off to the camps with you)no matter what Hitler tried.


    I'd just like to point out how silly this statement is. World War Two was not all about Hitler. We also fought the Japanese, who attacked us on OUR SOIL and I'm sure many of the men on the USS Arizona would have prefered that their freedom to live had not been taken away.

    That part of your post really takes away from the point you were trying to make.

    -Jag


I think I was just a little unclear is all. The Japanese attacking us (whether or not our government had full knowledge of it in advance or not) was a threat to our personal safety. Personal freedom was not threatened(once again, until the internment camps). Our sovereignty was never particularly threatened. Unlike the rest of the Allies
we were never in any real danger of being occupied (although we may have been a bit closer due to reports of U-boats of our shores but nevermind...) at all. That's the upside of not having the other world powers in your backyard. So, to sum up, Al-Quaeda(spelling) will most likely attack us or our interests(here or abroad)but they are not taking over anytime soon.
DaRipper58
Longanisa








Since: 11.3.04
From: Kennebunk, Maine

Since last post: 5491 days
Last activity: 5417 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.09
Nuclear Winter-
"We don't need to put up with crap like this. I want him out of my country."

I couldn't fucking agree more. When I read that article the first thing I wanted to do was take that little chicken fucker out back and beat him. But thats just me. I'd like see him even attempt to join the army, or play in the NFL. What Tillman did was great, and IMO anyone who joins the army can be considered a hero, but for what Tillman passed up for his country, he could be called a God.

StaggerLee-
"He has every right to say what he said, correct. Just like I have every right to call him a trolling, shit for brain, ass monkey."

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Wordlife-
"Better yet, let's drop him at Camp Pendleton or even better introduce him to Tillman's brother."

I agree. That prick should be forced to look Tillman's brother in the eye and read his article out loud, while cameras record him pissing his pants.




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I love John Cena :)

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CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
ICQ:  
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
    Originally posted by DaRipper58
    What Tillman did was great, and IMO anyone who joins the army can be considered a hero, but for what Tillman passed up for his country, he could be called a God.
Holy geez, guys, try to reign it in already.



CRZ
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Outside of Boston

Since last post: 252 days
Last activity: 125 days
ICQ:  
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.51
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"Finally You Can See Your Meat" (Roy.)


    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by DaRipper58
      What Tillman did was great, and IMO anyone who joins the army can be considered a hero, but for what Tillman passed up for his country, he could be called a God.
    Holy geez, guys, try to reign it in already.


Thank you... I respect the hell out of the guy for making that choice, and I've liked him ever since the article in SI back when he was at Arizona State. But let's watch the hyperbole. Retire his number across football? Fuck no. Statue of him outside their stadium? Sure... he was a local hero before enlisting, after all. I won't call the writer a "poor excuse for a human being" or even a chickenfucker. He's an asshat, but nothing more. Let's all remember what Flynt said about freedom of speech. (Or maybe it was the Supreme Court in their opinions on that case.)



DEAN's Nuggets of Wisdom:

"A-Train could wear a Vampirella outfit and I would toast a load to it."
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
You know, if you think about it, the language of the First Amendment is one of the most incredible and radical documents ever written by human hands. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The First Amendment is something we think of as being an unalienable right. But in 1791 when it was written, it was unheard of to absolutely guarantee these rights to a nation's citizens.

I'm absolutely certain that if Al-Qaeda and the Taliban had their way, we would enjoy none of the rights that we as Americans tend to take for granted. And if you don't believe me, just think back to a very short time ago, and what life was like for people in Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

I don't particularly agree with the war myself. Well, the war in Afghanistan I don't have a particular problem with, but the war in Iraq... big problem. But I blame a good deal of that on President Bush... certainly not the soliders who are fighting in the war. Indeed, I'm extremely vocal in support of our armed forces, not just in Afghanistan and Iraq, but all over the world.

So I'll say this. The man's got a right to express his opinion. And you know why that is? Because valiant men and women have fought and died for his, and our, freedom. I don't believe Pat Tillman entered the Army Rangers to get a cheap masculine thrill. He certainly didn't do it for the publicity. He didn't think he was better than anyone else. He just thought, I want to serve my country. And obviously he was very good at it, because they don't allow everyday Joe Soldiers to join the Army Rangers.

If the guy had simply said, I think Pat Tillman's sacrifice will be in vain because the war's the wrong thing to do, I'm certain a lot of people would have said, OK, the man's got a right to his opinion. Where this guy crossed the line, in my view, was when he personally attacked Tillman. Now this guy almost certainly never met Tillman, and probably never knew of his existence until after he died, but he decided for some reason to loose his venom on Tillman because of all the posthumous attention he's getting. That, to me, is inappropriate.

I think that before he goes around smearing the name of a fallen soldier, he ought to grab a firearm and stand a post for awhile. Hell, even a month. People in the armed forces go through so much bullshit just to protect our freedoms, I figure the least we can do is support them while they're alive and honor them when they fall.

But once again... I don't agree with what he's got to say, but I defend his right to say it. So I won't try and organize a lynch mob or anything.



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asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 3225 days
Last activity: 429 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

I love how someone accused the author of racism, then others take subtle digs at him for being Puerto Rican.

He made some points, but they were obviously drowned out by his rhetoric, which had a tweedy (sorry Jeb), academic, last-kid-picked-in-gym-class kind of feel.

Was his language inflammatory? Yeah, and I doubt he'd have the balls to be so vitriolic in front of Tillman's family. (Welcome to the world of newspaper columnists ) If Tillman's brother saw him and knocked his lights out, then I guess he could chalk it up to reader feedback.

I don't agree with what he said, it was ugly and maybe a little bit hateful. But equally bad is this nasty backlash whipped up by the media. Thank god Fox News and right-wing radio are around to help stir up lynch mobs against kids like this. God forbid he hold a divergent opinion about the war.

Personally, I feel bad for Tillman and his family. Agree with the war or not, Tillman put his money where his mouth was and it obviously takes more guts to put your life on the line than it does to write a newspaper column. But I'm sick of seeing people with anti-war stances bullied like this.

(edited by asteroidboy on 3.5.04 1242)

(edited by asteroidboy on 3.5.04 1244)

-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"In addition, my tickets werent really what youd expect from the webmaster of the internets largest independent pro-wrestling website." - Widro

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


Von Maestro
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.1.04
From: New York

Since last post: 957 days
Last activity: 530 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.33
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    But I'm sick of seeing people with anti-war stances bullied like this.


This kid is not being bullied because of an anti-war stance. He is being bullied do to calling someone an "idiot" for turning down a big paycheck in order to serve & die for his country.

There are plenty of people writing commentaries against the war, but they are not being thrust into the same limelight. This kid could be pro-war or anti-war & it would not change the backlash against the comments he made about Tillman. His comments have nothing to do with his opinion on Iraq & Afghanistan.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 3225 days
Last activity: 429 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
      Originally posted by asteroidboy
      But I'm sick of seeing people with anti-war stances bullied like this.


    This kid is not being bullied because of an anti-war stance. He is being bullied do to calling someone an "idiot" for turning down a big paycheck in order to serve & die for his country.

    There are plenty of people writing commentaries against the war, but they are not being thrust into the same limelight. This kid could be pro-war or anti-war & it would not change the backlash against the comments he made about Tillman. His comments have nothing to do with his opinion on Iraq & Afghanistan.


You're right, his language is probably what drew the fire. What I don't like, even though his column WAS obnoxious, are the "get outta my country" responses.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"In addition, my tickets werent really what youd expect from the webmaster of the internets largest independent pro-wrestling website." - Widro

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


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