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The W - Pro Wrestling - Jeff Hardy... WHAT THE HELL?!!! (Page 2)
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asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1392 days
Last activity: 300 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by VanillaSky
    It was definitely 12, b/c it happened in Dec. 1991, I believe. When you've been through as many matches and been on the road as long as HBK, I'm sure it all blends together. At least he knew that he THREW him through the Barber Shop window instead of super kicking him through it, as people say he did from time to time.


Yes but "superkicked him through a barbershop window" has such a nice ring to it.




"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


"...release the dogs, or the bees, or the dogs with bees in their mouths, and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?"
-- Homer Simpson
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#22 Posted on

    Anyway, the point of it is that I don't think you can build up a heel if he keeps on getting the hell knocked out of him each week. And dMp, I understand your reasoning, but he's still got to look somewhat respectable. Now, if he went back and got everyone back (in the back) next week, it'd be a little better.


You can build a credible heel out of just about anyone. There isn't a recipe for them, and not all have to be big bullies. Remember we are only three weeks into this thing. A slow build would be nice. Must the WWE hotshot every angle for you people?

Jeff also seems more motivated these last couple of weeks. I still think he's got the talent to be a star. I've ridden his damn bandwagon this long, I'm not jumping off the thing now.



It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#23 Posted on
I hope those aren't teenage girl pops we hear for Jeff, otherwise he'd have to be depushed, don't you know.




Forget Brock! TRINITY is the Next Big Thing!
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2413 days
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Y!:
#24 Posted on
I wasn't asking for the WWE to hotshot the angle; trust me, I absolutely love the slow build. I was just saying that unless Jeff starts getting the upper hand relatively soon (say, the next month or so), I'm going to start wondering. All I need is one good snapping (of personality, not of body parts) and I'll be happy.







Which Neglected Mario Character Are You?

ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 90 days
Last activity: 45 min.
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
You kidding? I'd like to see Jeff Hardy challenge the Horsemen next, only to get completely punked out by Reid Flair. That's great television, right there.

Actually, TheCow, when I think of “doing something for the express purpose of getting punked out”, I think of Vincent of the nWo. He must've gotten deathdropped about half a trillion times.



“I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.”
--Sean O'Haire

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Wiener of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

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Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 14 days
#26 Posted on
You know, I agree with everyone saying this a crappy way to build. So far, as for Chickenshits who aren't as good as they think they are, we already have Jericho, Christian, Matt Hardy, the Big Show, Chris Nowinski, and John Cena all playing some variation on this role. Do we really need another guy doing it? Jesus, this is why people call this writing crappy. Rule #1 of ensemble television is distunguish your characters. We can't have everyone running around playing the same role. Let's make Jeff a heel who picks his spots, focuses on weaknesses, and outsmarts his opponents. God...No seems to be doing that very well these days. A little originality, please.



"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3712 days
Last activity: 3181 days
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#27 Posted on
Wait up. You want Jeff Hardy, a wrestler who's essentially based his entire character around "He has more guts than brains" to suddenly become some kind of ring technician? The only person I can think of that Jeff Hardy's "outsmarted" was Big Show.

Jeff Hardy is NOT playing a "chickenshit who isn't as good as he thinks he is". (Nor, for that matter, are Big Show, Nowinski, or Jericho.) Would that sort of character charge into the ring in the middle of a match and face off against KANE, and then pick a fight with HBK? No. Jeff Hardy, Heel, is an extension of the "more guts than brains" idiom. He's grown frustrated with losing matches, so he's running in and attacking people for no reason, and getting his ass kicked. Eventually, he'll figure out that he's got to cheat if he's going to even things out and win matches.

It's a classic heel technique, and a natural progression for the character. It makes sense. I'll take that over something moronic any day of the week. HHH raping a doll in a coffin was original. Be careful what you ask for.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 14 days
#28 Posted on
Hmm...

Big Show...made a habit of running from Brock Lesnar and only ever got the upper hand against him when attacking from behind but continued to feud with him as if he thinks he can win...

Nowinski...runs from lots of guys, cheats, and thinks he's amazing because of the harvard thing. Got along with Matt Hardy at Survivor series since they play mirror versions of one another...

If Jericho's not a chickenshit heel, I don't know who is. He runs from everyone he meets.

All I'm saying is these guys all think they can beat anybody and then lose cleanly and decsively. If Jeff Hardy starts playing the same role it will be boring. It's not all the same character but it's all a variation on the same character...Jeff Hardy shouldn't be a "ring technician" but he could learn to pick his spots...Or attack people bigger than him when they've been weakened.

Oh and honestly...Give me a break on the necrophilia thing. I think you're taking a leap pulling necrophilia out of the word originality, which any objective person could admit the shows need.



"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#29 Posted on
He straight up slapped Kane. How is that chickenshit? KANE for Chist's sake. The only other guys you probably wouldn't want to slap like that is Brock and Taker. Nobody just slaps Kane. Characterwise it's just as ballsy as a Swanton off a ladder.



Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3712 days
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#30 Posted on

    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Hmm...

    Big Show...made a habit of running from Brock Lesnar and only ever got the upper hand against him when attacking from behind but continued to feud with him as if he thinks he can win...

    Nowinski...runs from lots of guys, cheats, and thinks he's amazing because of the harvard thing. Got along with Matt Hardy at Survivor series since they play mirror versions of one another...

    If Jericho's not a chickenshit heel, I don't know who is. He runs from everyone he meets.

    All I'm saying is these guys all think they can beat anybody and then lose cleanly and decsively. If Jeff Hardy starts playing the same role it will be boring. It's not all the same character but it's all a variation on the same character...Jeff Hardy shouldn't be a "ring technician" but he could learn to pick his spots...Or attack people bigger than him when they've been weakened.

    Oh and honestly...Give me a break on the necrophilia thing. I think you're taking a leap pulling necrophilia out of the word originality, which any objective person could admit the shows need.



Big Show is a chickenshit IN SPITE of his size/ability. Part of his character has ALWAYS been him losing IN SPITE of what he can do, thus the current need for a manager. He doesn't lack ability, he lacks confidence, character-wise. He's almost the exact opposite of what you're claiming he is.

Nowinski thinks he's smarter than the average bear, not better. Yes, he plays a chickenshit, but his skills have nothing at all to do with it. They play him up as a "rookie" all the time. He's a heel on the same level as, say, the Genius. Discretion is the better part of valor, and whatnot.

Jericho's a tough call. Because of the god-awful way they've portrayed him, he bounces back and forth between the type of heel you mentioned and the overconfident "beats himself by doing something cocky" heel he's supposed to be.

You're still missing the point of Hardy's character. If he picked his spots, and started being crafty, it'd completely negate the "guts vs. brains" thing I mentioned in my last post. It'd be out of character. He can, maybe, LEARN to do this, over time, after getting his ass kicked like he did Monday a few times, but that's called "evolution" for a reason... it takes time. For him to up and change instantly for no reason is lazy writing.

And I picked the necrophilia thing precisely because it was the most original thing the WWE has done in quite some time. If you like, I'll use DEAN~'s favorite angle and bring up Al Wilson. When was the last time YOU saw someone get fucked to death on wrestling television? HIGHLY ORIGINAL. Good? Not hardly.

Take a look at a couple of the better things lately, one from each show:

Team Angle. Heel champ gets cronies to back him up and help him win against tough foe. Classic.

The women's division on RAW. No mud wrestling, no "panties on a pole", no garbage crap. Wrestling. WRESTLING. While it could be argued that WRESTLING on a WRESTLING show is original in this day and age, it's still about as back-to-the-basics as you can get.

Originality is only good if it's done well. And I, personally, don't have a lot of confidence in the current creative team. So let them stick with what works, if it makes for better TV. The shows need to be entertaining. Period.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 14 days
#31 Posted on
Well I don't disagree on most of that. I don't mind if Hardy's like this right now...but will they follow it through? Probably not, and if they do...Not well. But if they do what you propose they're doing, which I think gives them more credit than they deserve but digressing...then I'll look forward to it.

As far as Al Wilson goes...Was it original? Uh...Okay. Maybe it was. Was it a failure? Not in terms of ratings. It was the best rated segment on smackdown almost every week for the last three months in the sought-after 18-24 demographic that the WWE needs. Honestly, what do you think, it bombed every week, in front of every crowd, and they just kept doing it for three months? Sorry, but that's not the way it happened. I get that few of us enjoyed the storyline but ratings indicate that the IWC was in the minority on that one. It can't be categorized as a total failure just because Boston shat on it at the Rumble. It never should have been taken out of the storyline, non-physical soap opera context, and into the context of a physical contest (wrestling match). It was unfair to expect legit athleticism out of people who are non-athletes, such as Dawn and Torrie. But neither woman did anything wrong. If they shot an angle between Paul Heyman and the Mark Loyd, and the match sucked, we'd make excuses for them but not for Dawn and Torrie? Sorry, but I think these girls did as good a job as they could have and their match had fewer botched spots than Steiner/Hunter did. As a featured storyline, to say it was a failure is completely inaccurate. I still maintain that, had it been done with men...It would have been one of the most controversial angles and possibly most entertaining of all time. Eddy Guerrero fucking Edge's mother to death, or something like that would be highly entertaining to me and would make people want to see Edge get revenge.

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 6.2.03 2202)


"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3712 days
Last activity: 3181 days
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#32 Posted on
The Al Wilson angle was a failure because it failed, in every way, shape, and form, to entertain me. Me, the repeat viewer. Okay. The Al Wilson segments were highly rated... but what happens now? They didn't lead anywhere. What reason are the "wow, I sure liked that old guy getting fucked to death" viewers going to have to stick with Smackdown that wasn't already there to begin with? They're just going to go right back to watching one or the other of the god-awful voyeur reality shows, and the little ratings boost is gone because that crowd has the attention span of a mayfly with ADD.

The people who watch Smackdown for wrestling would, and do, watch it IN SPITE of that garbage. Everyone I know, mark or smart, 'net-user or not, all agreed that that was right up there on the "insulting my intelligence" scale along with Katie V/Fick.

The match between them doesn't even enter into it, it was the SETUP that was bad. If it wasn't something that would/should, eventually, involve wrestling then WHY, in god's name, was it on a WRESTLING SHOW? Man or woman, if I'm watching a WRESTLING show, I'd sort of like the situations to... I don't know... BE ABOUT WRESTLING. Fuck soap opera shit, if anyone was actually interested in it they'd have a spin-off called "Jack Doan, Referee Detective" or some shit.

And if it'd been done with men, as you say, it STILL would have been moronic. I mean, for fuck's sake... you're asking for Eddie Guerrero to fuck Edge's mother to death, and then have this MURDER resolved by a wrestling match??



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3225 days
Last activity: 3225 days
#33 Posted on
The ratings didn't rise because of the Al Wilson storyline and they haven't dropped since it was killed. It may have been the highest rated segment on the show but maybe that's just because of where it was placed? Some segments are always the highest.

The angle failed because it failed to enhance the core product, the wrestlers. The people that are going to draw the houses and buyrates. It seems like some people in WWE think they're actually producing a TV SHOW! There might be necrophillia storylines on CSI but they're not trying to fill arenas and draw PPV's.

It's the Vince Russo disease of concentrating too much on ratings and forgetting that they're running a wrestling company. WWF's TV ratings went down after Russo left but the buyrates rose significantly and house show business boomed.

sergeial
Boerewors








Since: 27.2.02
From: Minneapolis

Since last post: 3000 days
Last activity: 2917 days
#34 Posted on

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    It seems like some people in WWE think they're actually producing a TV SHOW! There might be necrophillia storylines on CSI but they're not trying to fill arenas and draw PPV's.


Damn, thank you for saying that! Every time something truly retarded happens on the show, I can't help but imagine that Vince has been watching TV again, and is thinking to himself, "If _Six Feet Under_ can do this, or _Oz_ can do that, why can't we?" Because a wrestling show is not a sitcom or a drama or a soap opera, and wrestlers are not actors, damn it!

sergei



"I tear my quadracep all the time! I tore it this morning, I'm fine!"-- Kurt Angle
joejoe
Weisswurst








Since: 9.1.03
From: NJ, USA

Since last post: 4103 days
Last activity: 4093 days
#35 Posted on
Psycho Jeff Hardy would be great in the indies or ECW (if it still existed), but he's not tough-looking
enough for the WWE. Consider that Ray Mysterio, Victoria or Jazz could definitly woop his ass in a
shoot and destoy him in a power-lifting meet.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 442 days
Last activity: 442 days
#36 Posted on

    Originally posted by sergeial

      Originally posted by fuelinjected
      It seems like some people in WWE think they're actually producing a TV SHOW! There might be necrophillia storylines on CSI but they're not trying to fill arenas and draw PPV's.


    Damn, thank you for saying that! Every time something truly retarded happens on the show, I can't help but imagine that Vince has been watching TV again, and is thinking to himself, "If _Six Feet Under_ can do this, or _Oz_ can do that, why can't we?" Because a wrestling show is not a sitcom or a drama or a soap opera, and wrestlers are not actors, damn it!

    sergei






That, and shows like Oz have slightly better writers that actually develop characters and actually deliver on most angles.



Bringing the French along in a war is like bringing an accordion along when you go hunting. All it provides is useless noise.
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