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The W - Current Events & Politics - The Politics of AIDS
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1276 days
Last activity: 1073 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Those of you in the Washington area may have heard these commercials incessantly advertising the "AIDSride" that raises money for AIDS research. While raising money is all well and good, the message of these ads is what has been driving me up the wall.

The tone of these ads is that nobody gives a damn about people with AIDS and nobody wants to do anything about providing money for AIDS support and research. And THAT is my problem with these adsa.

Have they looked around lately at how much support the AIDS support and the AIDS research industry gets? It is the cause celebre of the Hollywood glitterati. It is THE leading medical cause championed by Democratic legislators in Washington due to the overwhelming support they receive from homosexual political activists. All great deal of the money government spends on medical research is given to AIDS and AIDS causes.

And the question is: why? Let's face facts here insofar that the overwhelming majority of AIDS cases are contracted through a lifestyle choice. And I'm not referring to homosexuality as a lifestyle choice(whether it's a choice or part of the genetic code is a seperate conversation) and I don't begrudge them for being homosexual. My problem with hte "lifestyle choice" of AIDS is that the majority of these cases are contracted by promiscuity and not practicing safe sex, and sharing of contaminated needles. So why should millions upon millions of dollars go to researching a disease where most of those afflicted by it are basically volunteers. This isn't the case with things like most cancers, juvenile diabetes, muscular dystrophy, or hundreds of other diseas that strike randomly and without provocation or poor lifestyle choices.

The AIDS issue has always driven me nuts and I'm getting pretty close to my breaking point.



"Present day writers, especially of the Socilaist school of thought- base their various theories upon one common hypothesis: They divide mankind into two parts. People in general- with the exception of the writer himself- from the first group. The writer, all alone, forms the second and most impportant group. Surely ths is the weirderst and most conceited notion that ever entered a human brain!"
- Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850
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DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3482 days
Last activity: 3476 days
#2 Posted on
I'm with you Grimis. The problem is that the disease is highly politicized *precisely because* it is connected to a liberal, hedonistic lifestyle choice, and when those come under fire from whatever source, nature or man, the practictioners go nuts. And I have to go a little beyond what you are saying- I would include basic homosexual behavior under the banner of lifestyle choice (realizing this may take us far off your intended topic, but I can defend this).

DMC



"It's too bad that all these things, can only happen in my dreams. Only in dreams, in beautiful dreams." -Roy Orbison
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2873 days
Last activity: 2873 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Grimis sez:

    Let's face facts here insofar that the overwhelming majority of AIDS cases are contracted through a lifestyle choice.


DMC sez:

    The problem is that the disease is highly politicized *precisely because* it is connected to a liberal, hedonistic lifestyle choice ...

You two are fucking pathetic.

"According to estimates from UNAIDS, an umbrella group for five U.N. agencies, the World Bank and the World Health Organization, 34.3 million people in the world have AIDS -- 24.5 million of them in sub-Saharan Africa. Nearly 19 million have died from AIDS, 3.8 million of them children under the age of 15." Click Here

Those 3.8 million children sure were at fault for their lifestyle choices. Those 24 million Africans, the vast majority of whom contracted the disease through heterosexual sex, sure do deserve to die in their 20s and 30s.

You heartless bastards.






I hate the army and I hate the RAF
I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat.
I hate the civil service rules
And I won't open a letter bomb for you.
------------------------------------------------
Joe Strummer Lives!
DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3482 days
Last activity: 3476 days
#4 Posted on
I think we were both talking about the AIDS problem in America, at least I was. So calm down.

DMC

(edited by DMC on 22.1.03 1309)


"It's too bad that all these things, can only happen in my dreams. Only in dreams, in beautiful dreams." -Roy Orbison
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1276 days
Last activity: 1073 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
So was I. The money that is being raised in America sure as hell isn't being used to go fight AIDS in Africa. Besides, it's not like any organziation under the auspices of the UN is going to help them.



"Present day writers, especially of the Socilaist school of thought- base their various theories upon one common hypothesis: They divide mankind into two parts. People in general- with the exception of the writer himself- from the first group. The writer, all alone, forms the second and most impportant group. Surely ths is the weirderst and most conceited notion that ever entered a human brain!"
- Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1322 days
Last activity: 89 days
AIM:  
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Y!:
#6 Posted on
Gotta say that I disagree.
Yes, the majority of AIDS cases are due to lifestyle, or other choices. But there are others that get the virus from blood transfusions, or a cheating spouse, or something equally tragic.
That aside, from a scientific standpoint, AIDS research is crucial. HIV is a brutally effective and efficient virus. If we could tap into an understanding about not only how this virus works, but also how it could be stopped, that would crack open a flood on information about how to cure everything from Herpes to the Common Cold.
HIV is an advanced virus. And there is absolutly NO reason that it could not mutate, and produce an airborne strain. Then I'd bet you would be all for the reasearch, but then it would be too late.
Some things you just spend money on, and medicine is one of those things. As is science. Yeah, I also completely despise the Hollywood "fashionably concerned," but hey, If I have managed to completely ignore their plastic mugs ever since they STARTED with the whole stupid "ribbon" movement, you should be able to as well...
This is just one of those things you support regardless of how the virus is transmitted or who is helping to raise the money... because it IS right...



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ScreamingHeadGuy
Frankfurter








Since: 1.2.02
From: Appleton, WI

Since last post: 755 days
Last activity: 755 days
#7 Posted on
Personally, I would rather see money being used to find a cure for cancer. I know people who have and have died from cancer. I do not know people who have or have died from HIV/AIDS.

I do not believe that the amount of attention given to AIDS is tacit support of a certain lifestyle. Rather I would suggest that it is to "be hip" and to avoid condemnations from those who would claim one to be one of the "heartless bastards".



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calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 567 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
You know I would guess that more money is spend on finding a cure for cancer than AIDS but that not really my point.

I don't spending money on anyone to has AIDS. Well anyone except these people Click Here. I really would wish Bush would reconsider his Stem Cell policy but that argument is for another Thread.
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#9 Posted on
You know, everytime I start to like the conservatives on this board, they make me realize how fucking ignorant they truly are.

Grimis and DMC *know* homosexuality is a lifestyle choice because they both have an overwhelming desire to fuck each other up the ass because hold off because they've made a lifestyle choice to be heterosexual. I'm not flaming here - I seriously figure that everyone who assumes that all homosexuals made the choice to be gay must have personally made the choice not to be gay, right? I mean, it makes just as much sense.

Yeah, fuck AIDS victims! Most of 'em is fags!

EDIT: Oh, and the Drudge Report's credibility is somewhere between 411wrestling and HotNewz's posts, so take it all with a grain of salt.

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 22.1.03 1745)

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 22.1.03 1746)

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DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3482 days
Last activity: 3476 days
#10 Posted on
Again, calm down. Grimis didn't say it was a lifestyle choice, I did. Sure, maybe some heterosexuals have to make a choice to be that way, but just based on the numbers it seems to be a much easier (and more natural) choice to make. Unless you assume that the grand majority of heterosexuals have an "overwhelming desire to..." Well, you know.

DMC



"It's too bad that all these things, can only happen in my dreams. Only in dreams, in beautiful dreams." -Roy Orbison
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1994 days
Last activity: 1928 days
#11 Posted on
"And the question is: why? Let's face facts here insofar that the overwhelming majority of AIDS cases are contracted through a lifestyle choice. And I'm not referring to homosexuality as a lifestyle choice(whether it's a choice or part of the genetic code is a seperate conversation) and I don't begrudge them for being homosexual. My problem with hte "lifestyle choice" of AIDS is that the majority of these cases are contracted by promiscuity and not practicing safe sex, and sharing of contaminated needles. So why should millions upon millions of dollars go to researching a disease where most of those afflicted by it are basically volunteers. This isn't the case with things like most cancers, juvenile diabetes, muscular dystrophy, or hundreds of other diseas that strike randomly and without provocation or poor lifestyle choices."

So basically, because somebody chooses a lifestyle that you don't morally agree with-even though all that is a load of bullshit that should discussed in a separate thread-you believe that they don't deserve help or care from the government.

Newsflash: No matter where it got started, AIDS is here to stay, and it's not just homosexuals, the promiscuous and drug users who are dying from it. People from all walks of life, conservatives, liberals, black, white, gay, straight, EVERYONE, is afected by it. So put your politicking crap aside for once and see that your country is, in fact, doing something right.

"Again, calm down. Grimis didn't say it was a lifestyle choice, I did. Sure, maybe some heterosexuals have to make a choice to be that way, but just based on the numbers it seems to be a much easier (and more natural) choice to make. Unless you assume that the grand majority of heterosexuals have an "overwhelming desire to..." Well, you know."

And don't even get me started on you. The majority of AIDS cases are heterosexuals aged between 18 and 35. Chew and that and like it, coz that's all you're getting out of me.







"Here's the thing: I don't give a tupenny f*ck about your moral conundrum, you meatheaded shit-sack. That's pretty much the thing." Daniel Day-Lewis as Bill "The Butcher" Cutting, Gangs Of New York. You'd be surprised at how many statements this can be used as a response to.

Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1276 days
Last activity: 1073 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
You know, everytime I start to like Fuzz , he makes me realize how fucking illiterate a lot of liberals are.


    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Grimis and DMC *know* homosexuality is a lifestyle choice because they both have an overwhelming desire to fuck each other up the ass because hold off because they've made a lifestyle choice to be heterosexual. I'm not flaming here - I seriously figure that everyone who assumes that all homosexuals made the choice to be gay must have personally made the choice not to be gay, right? I mean, it makes just as much sense


I never said anything about choice of lifestyle and genetic programming. In fact, I don't know if it is or not. I don't really care and frankly this has nothing to do with sexuality. The reasons AIDS is an issue is because liberals make it politically sexy to be in support of 1) homosexuality and, by default 2) AIDS and tend to call people fucking ignorant if they disagree with homosexuality or AIDS funding/research, much like has exploded on this board.

My lifestyle comment was towards unprotected sex and the use of contaminated needles. You can fuck a guy, a girl, an ape, whatever unprotected.

As usual, some liberals choose to twist words around than have a coherent argument.

On a different take....

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy

    HIV is an advanced virus. And there is absolutly NO reason that it could not mutate, and produce an airborne strain. Then I'd bet you would be all for the reasearch, but then it would be too late.



This has been the single most poignant thing said on the board yet and nobody has expanded upon it. It's the one thing so far that has been discussed that makes me potentially see the other side of the story.



"Present day writers, especially of the Socilaist school of thought- base their various theories upon one common hypothesis: They divide mankind into two parts. People in general- with the exception of the writer himself- from the first group. The writer, all alone, forms the second and most impportant group. Surely ths is the weirderst and most conceited notion that ever entered a human brain!"
- Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850
astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 2587 days
Last activity: 2554 days
AIM:  
#13 Posted on
Last time I checked, it only takes one unprotected fuck (or hell, even sloppy BJ) to contract AIDS. If having at least gotten to 3rd base unprotected with someone whose sexual history you aren't %100 sure of is a *lifestyle choice*, I'd guess about 85-90% of the teen-adult population has made that *lifestyle choice*.



Ph-nglui mgwl'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1276 days
Last activity: 1073 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by astrobstrd
    Last time I checked, it only takes one unprotected fuck (or hell, even sloppy BJ) to contract AIDS. If having at least gotten to 3rd base unprotected with someone whose sexual history you aren't %100 sure of is a *lifestyle choice*, I'd guess about 85-90% of the teen-adult population has made that *lifestyle choice*.


That was the point I was trying to make...



"Present day writers, especially of the Socilaist school of thought- base their various theories upon one common hypothesis: They divide mankind into two parts. People in general- with the exception of the writer himself- from the first group. The writer, all alone, forms the second and most impportant group. Surely ths is the weirderst and most conceited notion that ever entered a human brain!"
- Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 hour
ICQ:  
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
People just assume that if a cure was found (and lets be honest with each other, it'd be found in a "first world" country), that it would get sent to other countries. But several times it's been demonstrated by liberals and conservatives alike that sometimes the greater good is ignored (like debt relief for the "third world").

As for the other stuff....




I've got it fairly simple. I'm 21 years old, and I practice chastity and don't do drugs. The funny thing about it is, most of the people on this board will get on my case about any one of those things. On the flip side, it means I don't need to worry about STD's and stuff.


At the risk of being called ignorant, idiot, every other insult imaginable, and offending the 85-90% of teen-adult population, quite possibly it could be that maybe....just maybe....these lifestyle choices the majority of people are doing....hetrosexual and homsexual alike....maybe they're not the right things to be doing. Maybe.

(edited by El Nastio on 23.1.03 0954)



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OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#16 Posted on
Apologies to Grimis - I shouldn't have lumped you in there. I still disagree with you, but I was putting words in your mouth. DMC, on the other hand, is still an ass.



THE RESULTS ARE IN!

2002 Fuzzies: The Only Awards That Matter

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CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
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Y!:
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Apologies to Grimis - I shouldn't have lumped you in there. I still disagree with you, but I was putting words in your mouth. DMC, on the other hand, is still an ass.
If you can't do a better job separating attacks on an opinion from attacks on a person, I have no problem showing you the door. You've been out of line twice this week - don't make it three.



©CRZ™
calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 567 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by El Nastio
    People just assume that if a cure was found (and lets be honest with each other, it'd be found in a "first world" country), that it would get sent to other countries. But several times it's been demonstrated by liberals and conservatives alike that sometimes the greater good is ignored (like debt relief for the "third world").


I am sure that when a cure is found something will happen where they will try to wipe out the virus like the smallpox vaccine. Well at least I hope it will.
Hairy Caray
Bauerwurst








Since: 28.10.02
From: Wrigley Field hot dog stand

Since last post: 3701 days
Last activity: 3698 days
#19 Posted on
Just wanted to point out that HIV 1 is not a good candidate for a mutation making it airborne. It's an obligate intracellular parasite, which is why it went under the radar so easily a few decades ago.

Transfusions are not a common source of HIV infections in this country. The main reason you hear them as a potential route of infection is that during the period between the discovery of AIDS and the discovery of HIV, all recipients of blood transfusions were at risk (this is when Arthur Ash received his lethal transfusion). Today, blood is thoroughly tested and risks are nil.



Cubs win! Cubs win! Cubs win!
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2873 days
Last activity: 2873 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Hairy Caray sez:

    Today, blood is thoroughly tested and risks are nil.

That's almost true ... but unfortunately not entirely so. Click Here

"Two people have contracted HIV infections from blood transfusions in Florida, the blood collection agency involved said Friday (on July 20, 2002).

"Leparc said that safety procedures had been followed but that there were no means available to detect HIV in a donation made very soon after the donor's infection."

The chances are very small, but still larger than nil.






I hate the army and I hate the RAF
I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat.
I hate the civil service rules
And I won't open a letter bomb for you.
------------------------------------------------
Joe Strummer Lives!
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