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The W - Pro Wrestling - HHH in Watts' style of booking...
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The King of Keith
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Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

Since last post: 345 days
Last activity: 305 days
AIM:  
#1 Posted on
Bill Watts used to book things so that the heel would look ultra tough so that when the babyface won, it would be a huge thing. I think that's the route they may be going with HHH. I, for one, don't mind the HHH. I know I must be the only one out there, but I don't mind him being the supreme heel. He does it convincingly and consistently week in and week out. The IWC hates him and the fans hate him. He's the ultimate heel!



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It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#2 Posted on
If this really IS Watts' style of booking, then all it'll take to get Triple H off my TV is for somebody to kick his ass in a barfight.

Bill Watts Rule #1: Wrestlers should never EVER get their asses kicked in a shoot fight!




"Oh, but you're wrong, Bubba. Because you see...it IS the Triple H Show! Why don't you ask that pothead I just buried if you don't believe me?"
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 53 min.
#3 Posted on
But who's the face that will eventually defeat him? RVD, Booker T, Kane...they've all been beaten by HHH already.



I was born in a manger, like that other guy. You know, he wore a hat?
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3293 days
Last activity: 3293 days
#4 Posted on
Yeah, everybody hates him so much they stopped watching and going to the shows. What a great heel.
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#5 Posted on
I generally like HHH, I apparently defend him all the time and I am usually an optimist, but the moment I saw the results (live in Holland, remember?!)for this week I was bummed that again the same thing happens. H vs HBK rematch.
It just isn't fun..
Just like when I saw last weeks Raw last night.
Now I didn't mind the HHH interference, that was good booking, albeit predictable (the heel returns to lay out everyone) but the fact that him and HBK went back and forth for several minutes wasn't the way to end it.
One pedigree, one chairshot and OMGWE'REOUTOFTIME!

And I am not even blaming this on politics, just on poor booking and lack of ideas (err..why dont we continue with more of the same..)





Ubermonkeys
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

Since last post: 3550 days
Last activity: 3424 days
AIM:  
#6 Posted on
But who's the face that will eventually defeat him? RVD, Booker T, Kane...they've all been beaten by HHH already.

Wasn't that what the whole HBK thing was about?

'Cept the thing was, nobody cared.



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JWstorm
Kolbasz








Since: 23.10.02
From: Tarheel State

Since last post: 3083 days
Last activity: 2361 days
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#7 Posted on
hBK'S POP SEEMED A LIL ANEMIC LAST NIGHT
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 511 days
Last activity: 511 days
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by It's False
    If this really IS Watts' style of booking, then all it'll take to get Triple H off my TV is for somebody to kick his ass in a barfight.

    Bill Watts Rule #1: Wrestlers should never EVER get their asses kicked in a shoot fight!







With that rule, HBK would be out in the desert talking theology with Dingbat due to the 4,578,364 marines that jumped him in the bar in Syracuse. With the Watts booking model, Booker T would be the one to win the World Title. Either that, or Dr. Death Steve Williams would come back to win it.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Dr Unlikely
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Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 8 hours
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#9 Posted on
That's the thing with booking a heel so tough that it will be a huge thing when the babyface gets the definitive win, the face actually has to get that definitive win. We've been waiting for it now since Wrestlemania 2000 and it never happened. If it happens now, almost two years after the fact, it's too late anyway.

At HHH's peak, in the months leading up through the Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania 2000, they had a chance to do things properly. He made himself into pure evil, had run roughshod over everyone, forced The Rock to finally show a human side by defending Foley in the big Raw walkout and then followed that up by actually retiring Foley. If they had tied things up at Wrestlemania 2000 by having Foley on his stay-of-execution get a final win or by having his friend and partner The Rock get revenge, it would have been perfect execution: build up the heel as insurmountably evil, push it just past the expectation of his downfall (Foley losing the Hell in a Cell match and being forced to retire) and then finally provide the relief the fans have been waiting for by having the hero find a way to triumph at the end. Never happened.

They forgot the end and just never got around to doing the payoff. No comeuppance for HHH, that's where it all went wrong and I think that's where their current problems originated. No one beat him. Not Mick Foley, the fan favorite who HHH beat when Foley re-adopted the persona he thought could win and then was retired and then retired AGAIN in the follow-up matches. Not The Rock, the even bigger fan favorite who came to finally accept Foley as his partner to the point of leading the roster in a revolt and, by general dramatic storytelling, should have been the one to definitively beat HHH to avenge his friend (as opposed to the switching when he and Austin combined to take down HHH, only to have HHH get it back the next month and then try to pass off Rock pinning Vince for HHH's belt the month after that as the ending). Not Stone Cold Steve Austin, the biggest fan favorite, the man who HHH arranged to be MURDERED only to see Austin lose in the final match. Not The Immortal Hulk Hogan, maybe the one guy who could eclipse Austin in all-time popularity only to win with help from The Undertaker, then admit he needed UT's help and then lose the clean rematch and ask HHH to pose with him. Not Kane, the man who HHH framed for murder and accused of necrophilia.

It just never happened when it needed to in order to give the viewers a payoff and set us up for the next dramatic arc, and that was WWE's fatal flaw that's been eroding and undermining what they've done since. And it's not like they didn't have a contemporary example of the same problem to learn from.

Starrcade 1997 should have provided a direct parallel for what they needed to avoid. Hogan and the nWo ran roughshod over everyone and crushed fan favorites definitively (I don't know, which was the bigger heel move - beating Savage to death with Slim Jims or putting Foley in a cage and dragging him behind a bus for a week? Neither had the face or any face get any payback) and it was all accepted and enjoyed because there was the promise that it was going to lead to the definitive moment when the tables were turned and the hero triumphed. But like the WWF would later drop the ball by not having Foley or Rock tie things up at the biggest show of them all, WCW did the same thing by blowing the resolution to the highly anticipated Hogan vs. Sting match.

Two complete no-brainers and two major misses that left people without the resolution that they were strung along for all that time. Meaningless changes to Luger and Sting himself meant as little as the unimportant changes after Wrestlemania 2000. And when they finally pulled the trigger and had Goldberg beat Hogan definitively, it was too late. That's the situation that WWE is looking at now.
Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 22 days
Last activity: 3 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    That's the thing with booking a heel so tough that it will be a huge thing when the babyface gets the definitive win, the face actually has to get that definitive win. We've been waiting for it now since Wrestlemania 2000 and it never happened. If it happens now, almost two years after the fact, it's too late anyway.

    At HHH's peak, in the months leading up through the Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania 2000, they had a chance to do things properly. He made himself into pure evil, had run roughshod over everyone, forced The Rock to finally show a human side by defending Foley in the big Raw walkout and then followed that up by actually retiring Foley. If they had tied things up at Wrestlemania 2000 by having Foley on his stay-of-execution get a final win or by having his friend and partner The Rock get revenge, it would have been perfect execution: build up the heel as insurmountably evil, push it just past the expectation of his downfall (Foley losing the Hell in a Cell match and being forced to retire) and then finally provide the relief the fans have been waiting for by having the hero find a way to triumph at the end. Never happened.

    They forgot the end and just never got around to doing the payoff. No comeuppance for HHH, that's where it all went wrong and I think that's where their current problems originated. No one beat him. Not Mick Foley, the fan favorite who HHH beat when Foley re-adopted the persona he thought could win and then was retired and then retired AGAIN in the follow-up matches. Not The Rock, the even bigger fan favorite who came to finally accept Foley as his partner to the point of leading the roster in a revolt and, by general dramatic storytelling, should have been the one to definitively beat HHH to avenge his friend (as opposed to the switching when he and Austin combined to take down HHH, only to have HHH get it back the next month and then try to pass off Rock pinning Vince for HHH's belt the month after that as the ending). Not Stone Cold Steve Austin, the biggest fan favorite, the man who HHH arranged to be MURDERED only to see Austin lose in the final match. Not The Immortal Hulk Hogan, maybe the one guy who could eclipse Austin in all-time popularity only to win with help from The Undertaker, then admit he needed UT's help and then lose the clean rematch and ask HHH to pose with him. Not Kane, the man who HHH framed for murder and accused of necrophilia.

    It just never happened when it needed to in order to give the viewers a payoff and set us up for the next dramatic arc, and that was WWE's fatal flaw that's been eroding and undermining what they've done since. And it's not like they didn't have a contemporary example of the same problem to learn from.

    Starrcade 1997 should have provided a direct parallel for what they needed to avoid. Hogan and the nWo ran roughshod over everyone and crushed fan favorites definitively (I don't know, which was the bigger heel move - beating Savage to death with Slim Jims or putting Foley in a cage and dragging him behind a bus for a week? Neither had the face or any face get any payback) and it was all accepted and enjoyed because there was the promise that it was going to lead to the definitive moment when the tables were turned and the hero triumphed. But like the WWF would later drop the ball by not having Foley or Rock tie things up at the biggest show of them all, WCW did the same thing by blowing the resolution to the highly anticipated Hogan vs. Sting match.

    Two complete no-brainers and two major misses that left people without the resolution that they were strung along for all that time. Meaningless changes to Luger and Sting himself meant as little as the unimportant changes after Wrestlemania 2000. And when they finally pulled the trigger and had Goldberg beat Hogan definitively, it was too late. That's the situation that WWE is looking at now.




Damnit, can I join your fan club? Is there some way to repay you for actually thinking through and postulating the HHH theory, with examples, instead of just going the "I hate HHH" route.
This was a perfect look at why the booking of HHH is killing the company.



"Oh, a handful of change. I guess I can use this to go...um...buy some candy. So thank you for adding a step to my Halloween process"- homestarrunner

*I* will always remember the RFM Club!
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#11 Posted on
    Originally posted by redsoxnation

      Originally posted by It's False
      If this really IS Watts' style of booking, then all it'll take to get Triple H off my TV is for somebody to kick his ass in a barfight.

      Bill Watts Rule #1: Wrestlers should never EVER get their asses kicked in a shoot fight!







    With that rule, HBK would be out in the desert talking theology with Dingbat due to the 4,578,364 marines that jumped him in the bar in Syracuse. With the Watts booking model, Booker T would be the one to win the World Title. Either that, or Dr. Death Steve Williams would come back to win it.



Ah ah ah! Good points, except you forget...

Bill Watts Rule #2: No colored people shall hold the World Title unless a lawsuit has been threatened!

(edited by It's False on 3.12.02 0808)



"Oh, but you're wrong, Bubba. Because you see...it IS the Triple H Show! Why don't you ask that pothead I just buried if you don't believe me?"
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 511 days
Last activity: 511 days
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by It's False
      Originally posted by redsoxnation

        Originally posted by It's False
        If this really IS Watts' style of booking, then all it'll take to get Triple H off my TV is for somebody to kick his ass in a barfight.

        Bill Watts Rule #1: Wrestlers should never EVER get their asses kicked in a shoot fight!







      With that rule, HBK would be out in the desert talking theology with Dingbat due to the 4,578,364 marines that jumped him in the bar in Syracuse. With the Watts booking model, Booker T would be the one to win the World Title. Either that, or Dr. Death Steve Williams would come back to win it.



    Ah ah ah! Good points, except you forget...

    Bill Watts Rule #2: No colored people shall hold the World Title unless a lawsuit has been threatened!

    (edited by It's False on 3.12.02 0808)






Look at the pushes Watts gave JYD and Butch Reed in the Mid South region. And remember, when he was helping in the WWF/E in mid '95, it coincided with the rise of King Mabel (Mabel vs. Diesel, you know, if Nitro started six months earlier, Vince really could have gone out of business). The benefit of Watts being a racist was this: The minorities would come out to see JYD win, and the racists would come out to see him get destroyed. Each way, they both paid in green currency. This is much like the old Dusty Rhodes/Kevin Sullivan feud in Florida, where you would get the bikers supporting Dusty, the Satanists supporting Sullivan, and you could get a good riot going at any time. Either way, it attracted people.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1461 days
Last activity: 369 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Doc, great post as always.

My question is - and I really don't know if any of us has enough "inside" knowlege to answer this - Why has HHH never gotten his comeuppance?

The man has never looked weak. He's always combined the scrappy, strong warrior qualities of a face with the sneaky aspects of a heel. Look at the Austin/HHH Two-Man Power trip. Austin was booked as the cowardly psychopath, while HHH was the calculating assassin, who boasted that he, "didn't make mistakes." Even when he tore his quad, Austin was the one who got pinned. Then we were subjected to numerous vignettes, telling us what a tough competitor HHH was and his long road of rehab ahead.

Faces are tough, but dumb. They always get outsmarted by the heels. Heels are smart, but chickenshit. And their sneakiness backfires in the end. HHH will occaisionally back down from a fight, but he never really looks chickenshit. He's never gonna get his, that's why people sit on their hands during his matches.

(edited by asteroidboy on 3.12.02 0859)


"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me

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Since: 6.1.02
From: Chicago, IL

Since last post: 899 days
Last activity: 604 days
#14 Posted on
HHH isn't following Watt's style. He's following Dark Helmet's motto form Spaceballs.

"Evil will always triumph over Good. Because Good is dumb."
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3293 days
Last activity: 3293 days
#15 Posted on
To make the Triple H character mean something again, they need to have him 'get his' for a few months. Then fans will probably accept him again because they won't see the finish coming a mile away.
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