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The W - Site Bashing - Sites and "horrible" ratings
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Teppan-Yaki
Pepperoni








Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 938 days
Last activity: 908 days
#1 Posted on
Yanno... next time I hear that 3.6-4.0 is "horrible," I'm going to puke.

I'm not trying to look at the situation through rose-colored glasses, but the WWE still leads cable most of the time.

Is it a 6.0? Not by the least. Do they deserve getting 3.6-4.2? Sometimes. However, I'd like to think that some of the sites around actually *work* in programming before they call what still leads cable "horrible."

Once again, as posted here before: VALLEY. Get it?

ObWWEWomen's: The "fat-ass" angle still sucks balls.
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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 73 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by Teppan-Yaki
    I'm not trying to look at the situation through rose-colored glasses, but the WWE still leads cable most of the time.


But I'm sure WWE programming costs much more to produce than most of the other cable shows they beat weekly, so it isn't totally unfair to expect higher ratings from them.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
Socks
Landjager








Since: 25.6.02
From: Ottawa

Since last post: 823 days
Last activity: 435 days
#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

      Originally posted by Teppan-Yaki
      I'm not trying to look at the situation through rose-colored glasses, but the WWE still leads cable most of the time.


    But I'm sure WWE programming costs much more to produce than most of the other cable shows they beat weekly, so it isn't totally unfair to expect higher ratings from them.




True, very very true!

Great point!



I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and I sleep all day!

Morningkill
Longanisa








Since: 2.1.02
From: Long Island, NY

Since last post: 3877 days
Last activity: 2985 days
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#4 Posted on

    Originally posted by Socks

      Originally posted by TheBucsFan

        Originally posted by Teppan-Yaki
        I'm not trying to look at the situation through rose-colored glasses, but the WWE still leads cable most of the time.


      But I'm sure WWE programming costs much more to produce than most of the other cable shows they beat weekly, so it isn't totally unfair to expect higher ratings from them.




    True, very very true!

    Great point!



Not when you consider that each WWE show has a 'studio audience' of tens of thousands that paid $20 or more for their seat, and god knows how much on merchandise.



What's that blue thing doing here?
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by Morningkill

      Originally posted by Socks

        Originally posted by TheBucsFan

          Originally posted by Teppan-Yaki
          I'm not trying to look at the situation through rose-colored glasses, but the WWE still leads cable most of the time.


        But I'm sure WWE programming costs much more to produce than most of the other cable shows they beat weekly, so it isn't totally unfair to expect higher ratings from them.




      True, very very true!

      Great point!



    Not when you consider that each WWE show has a 'studio audience' of tens of thousands that paid $20 or more for their seat, and god knows how much on merchandise.



don't forget the cost of pyro
wresters salaries
plane tickets
gas for the trucks
food for the crew
crew saleries
i could go on



"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college." -Lewis Black

"Yeah, fuck you E.T. you ungrateful dick." -BigDaddyLoco 5/20/2

"MAY PRE HOUSE THE SEAMY SIDE VOLITATION!!!" Warning from a "Flying Goku" Dragon Ball Z toy

"I'm her sugar momma, which is ok, because I'm her sister." Connie French, and the funniest thing one of my customers has ever said to me
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#6 Posted on
And actually WWE hasn't led cable programming in some time now. While the Raw hours generally still land in the top 10, they're never #1 and 2 anymore.

And the ratings are horrible in comparison to themselves. Cyclical nature of the business be damned, when you lose 60% of your audience of a tv show over a couple of years, you're having problems that need rectifying.



Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
Tragic1
Chourico








Since: 2.1.02
From: Rolling Meadows, Illinois

Since last post: 4371 days
Last activity: 4362 days
#7 Posted on
The only thing I don't like is that Dave Scherer is calling 3.6 horrible when it's 3 to 4 times better than the rating ECW got on a weekly basis.

But then again, that's not ECW's fault according to Dave.

(edited by Tragic1 on 4.7.02 0923)


Heck is for people that don't believe in Gosh.
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 17 days
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#8 Posted on
RAW's the highest rated show on TNN, I think Smackdown is still the highest rated show on UPN (although they do have "Star Trek - Episode I: The Phantom Bakula"). There's really no need to *panic*, persay.

The boom is over, though. And I, personally, am glad. I hated being a fan during the "fad".



"It doesn't matter if you're a Stormtrooper or the nWo... your ass is about to get waxed by the FIVE-TIME Master Jedi champion - now can you dig that?"
---Obi-Book Kenobi
Teppan-Yaki
Pepperoni








Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 938 days
Last activity: 908 days
#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    RAW's the highest rated show on TNN, I think Smackdown is still the highest rated show on UPN (although they do have "Star Trek - Episode I: The Phantom Bakula"). There's really no need to *panic*, persay.

    The boom is over, though. And I, personally, am glad. I hated being a fan during the "fad".



A couple of counter-points to the already said counters to my points
*As much as there are expenses, don't forget the house shows (which admittedly are doing crappy, no?)...

*VKM EP'ing Rock's movies. IIRC, WWE is getting a cut of the box office on that.

*International TV is probably still doing well.

*Isn't Viacom paying them to have series on both UPN, TNN and MTV? If so, like mentioned before, at least two net's overall ratings and M18/34 have been raised. If it weren't for Count Bakula, Buffy and SD!, WB would be far and away the best mini-net.

Now... last week, WWE was beat out by two things: One was an OTO (One Time Only) special, the other was "The Dead Zone." OTOs I don't worry about. Series with Anthony Michael Hall -- I do.
ManiacalClown
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston, TX

Since last post: 546 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
RAW was displaced from the #1 spot on cable by The Osbournes.



Subversia - We [heart] Puff Mario
Teppan-Yaki
Pepperoni








Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 938 days
Last activity: 908 days
#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by ManiacalClown
    RAW was displaced from the #1 spot on cable by The Osbournes.


First-run Osbournes, though; and it'll probably happen again when the new season hits.
Weevil
Polska kielbasa








Since: 19.3.02
From: Ireland

Since last post: 3216 days
Last activity: 3216 days
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by Teppan-Yaki
    Is it a 6.0? Not by the least. Do they deserve getting 3.6-4.2? Sometimes. However, I'd like to think that some of the sites around actually *work* in programming before they call what still leads cable "horrible."

    Once again, as posted here before: VALLEY. Get it?



Halfway down the mountain and still falling. Get it?

The reason business is good now is because it was great a couple of years ago and it takes time to drive away the fans, but once that ball gets rolling it,s going to be really hard to stop it.
Y2Disco
Mettwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Pennsburg, PA

Since last post: 3812 days
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#13 Posted on
Aren't oversea tours doing hella good too?



"If you like to fight girls so much, why don't you meet me in the ring?"
-Jeff Hardy
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by ManiacalClown
    RAW was displaced from the #1 spot on cable by The Osbournes.

Actually they are now replaced on a weekly basis generally by either movies (like Atomic Twister) or episodes of Spongebob Squarepants.



Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 45 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#15 Posted on
I wouldn't think they would have to be #1 to make money.

I guess without being able to pinpoint the exact expenses that go into producing a show, and the revenue each show generates from tickets, merchandising, concessions, and advertising, we are all just talking out of our ass.
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3750 days
Last activity: 3219 days
AIM:  
#16 Posted on

    Originally posted by Weevil


    Once again, as posted here before: VALLEY. Get it?



Halfway down the mountain and still falling. Get it?



Half full/Half empty, may as well throw the glass away and die of thirst, too.

"Oh, look, it's raining."/"Jesus Christ, if this keeps up for another forty days we're going to have a flood!"

I'd say "get it" but I try to avoid using old WWF/E slogans in everyday conversation.

Optimism is HARD.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
Jay Bower
Cotechino








Since: 28.2.02

Since last post: 3886 days
Last activity: 3876 days
#17 Posted on
"Aren't oversea tours doing hella good too?"

"Hella" being an understatement. They just sold out a show in Australia in ridiculously fast time. The stadium holds about 48,000-55,000 and it's looking like the 2nd biggest gate (in terms of revenue) of the year for WWE behind WM of course. The WWF's show in Yokohama, Japan did huge business as well as recent swings through Europe. WWE also routinely does huge business in areas of the world (ex hawaii) who haven't been horrendously overexposed like major markets in the US who see the WWE come through town so often that the events become "can miss".

Ratings really don't mean a thing in terms of how profitable WWE is except when it comes to sweeps week where WWE's ratings can give them leverage in negotiating the prices for advertising spots during Raw and Smackdown.

While house shows are down, they are still making money, advertising money is coming in, merchandise money, ticket sales, ppv buys, about 6 million in quasi-royalties for every movie the Rock makes, liscnensing fees from video games, their videos and DVD's which still dominate the charts, the four dollars and eight cents of annual profit that WWF New York pulls in and a ton of other stuff.

Sorry about rambling but the 3.6 is still something that every other show on cable would kill for.



Jay Bower
TheSmarks.com/411wrestling.com
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 306 days
Last activity: 3 days
#18 Posted on
The WWF makes their money from:

Ad revenues
Merchandise sales
PPV buys
Arena receipts

Ratings are in the mid-to-high 3s
Merchandise is still moving well
PPV buys are less than during the peak, but not in 1995 levels...yet
And yes, people are still buying tickets to see WWF shows.

They're making money. Whether or not they're #1 on Cable or in the 6s or 7s...they're making money. Money is what makes the World Wrestling Federation go 'round, so as long as VKM is in the black, we'll be seeing wrestling.



Bart: Hey, immigrants! Beat it! Country's full!
Sailor: OK people, you heard the lady. Back into the hold. We'll try Canada.
[the immigrants moan]
-- "The City of New York Vs. Homer Simpson"


"That's what the Internet is for, slandering others anonymously" Banky Edwards (Jason Lee) in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back

TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 73 days
Last activity: 73 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    Merchandise is still moving well
    PPV buys are less than during the peak, but not in 1995 levels...yet



How do you know this?

Also, like I already said, it's not a question of whether they are bringing money in, it's a question of are those revenues enough to justify producing 6-8 hours of original programming (2 of which is live; 4 of which is in a prime ratings time slot).

I could make a list of expenditures and, because I know some expenditures, jump to the conclusion that they are losing money. That doesn't make it any more fact than before I said anything though.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 7.7.02 1819)


Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
Teppan-Yaki
Pepperoni








Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 938 days
Last activity: 908 days
#20 Posted on
Something we need to look at a little closer is how much WWE charges for national ad rates and the percentage of time they actually sell.

You'll have to factor in TNN promos and local time, but I'd think there's at least 10 minutes of WWE ad time they sell or so. I'll have to check the split (National to Local ad time) out tomorrow.

Anyhoo, you also have to figure that Subway and other national advertisers also pay a decent chunk for "supporting" a PPV. It didn't help that WWE Shopzone.com was one of those athletic supporters for a PPV, then.

Regarding SBSP; as a programming sales rep once said, it's (not totally) the demographic. Male teens are part of the demo, but I'd also think that Males 18-34 are your prime target.

Let me focus back to the subject header -- If 1Wrestling or other sites want to sensationalize that a 3.6 is horrible, fine. It's bad from where it used to be; that's a true point. However, if it hits a 2 to 2.5, then I'd worry. I think it's asinine that writers think they work in programming now.
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