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17.9.14 1647
The W - Pro Wrestling - Did Randy Orton Attempt Suicide?
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DirtyMikeSeaver
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Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 57 days
Last activity: 30 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.22
I saw this link over on PWTorch.com and it's written by Irv Muchnick. I'm not familiar with his work. Here's the article:

A rumor is swirling that World Wrestling Entertainment star Randy Orton attempted suicide within the last year. Very well-placed wrestling sources tell me that the rumor is true. In the wake of the June murder-suicide of Chris Benoit and the scandal involving scads of WWE performers who ordered steroids and human growth hormone from the Internet gray-market dealer Signature Pharmacy, this is serious stuff.

Its already clear that WWEs response to the Signature revelations generated by the district attorney in Albany, New York, and reported by Sports Illustrated and others is a joke. Some vague number of the miscreant wrestlers, not named, were suspended, but the suspension appears to have consisted of simply being downgraded for a few weeks in TV storylines.

From the same evidence, Randy Orton was not touched at all. That is more than a little strange. Ortons Signature Pharmacy order marked, at the very least, his second strike under WWEs so-called wellness policy, which would have called for a 60-day (rather than a 30-day) suspension.

The suicide whispers mark the problem as more than a game of gotcha or even taste (Orton acquired the gimmick Legend Killer after WWE blithely turned Eddie Guerreros 2005 death into just another angle). Its a matter of life and death.

Orton, 27, is a third-generation wrestler. He is engaged to marry Samantha Speno, a part-time gymnastics teacher, this fall. Last year Randy and Samantha moved into a country-club estate in High Ridge, Missouri (suburban St. Louis), complete with a gym, a hot tub, and four decks.

Over to you, WWE.

Irvin Muchnick

----

I dunno, it's seems like BS, but then again, I would have said the same thing about Benoit 5 months ago. And it IS a little weird that he didn't get suspended.....




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oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1951 days
Last activity: 1885 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Orton wasn't suspended because he supposedly already served a suspension for the drugs in question earlier this year. And Irv's assertion that the response is a "joke" is astonishing - short of shutting down the company I'm not sure what better response that particular story could have been met with. Everyone named in the story bar Orton has been suspended - and losing a months' pay is a lot more serious than being "downgraded in storylines".

I won't comment on the Orton story, other than to say that it's a mighty serious allegation to toss around without any proof. Given the content of the rest of the story, I'm not sure how to take it.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
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Since: 27.6.02

Since last post: 36 days
Last activity: 9 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
Didn't the "Legend Killer" gimmick start long before Eddie's death? I ask because I remember the gimmick and haven't watch anything since then.



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kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

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Last activity: 1 day
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.33
    Originally posted by Zundian
    Didn't the "Legend Killer" gimmick start long before Eddie's death? I ask because I remember the gimmick and haven't watch anything since then.


He had it dating back to 2003, but recently started playing it up more when he took out HBK, RVD, and Dusty.

The article reminds me of the TO "attempted suicide" report last year. It might just be a case of taking too many drugs for recreation, going to the hospital, and the story getting mixed up.




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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Generally I like Irv's work but if this is the entire article...well, it's kinda all over the place, which isn't easy to do given its brevity. I'm not even sure what main point he's trying to get across here. (Unless it's "I don't like Randy Orton" in which case...wow, what a bold opinion to have and share with the masses!)



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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
LINK.


    A rumor is swirling that World Wrestling Entertainment star Randy Orton attempted suicide within the last year.


The first four words are problematic, because this didn't appear to be any sort of rumor before this post.

All we've really got is someone told him Randy attempted suicide, and here's a bunch of miscellaneous facts and observations related to drug suspensions, but he doesn't actually draw a line between the two. We're missing a definitive line like "Randy Orton's drug use led to him committing suicide, and so WWE's lax efforts in drug testing nearly led to another death." Irv doesn't include anything like that, so I'm not sure what one paragraph of this is supposed to do with the rest. If you feel comfortable enough spilling mental health secrets on the internet, you at least ought to connect the dots.

I'm not saying the story is false, and Irv has legit credentials on writing about wrestling, but this is not especially well written.

(edited by thecubsfan on 18.9.07 1438)


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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 57 min.
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.67

    If you feel comfortable enough spilling mental health secrets on the internet, you at least ought to connect the dots.


Not to wrongfully propagate something, but if you were looking for SUPPORTING CLUES, the way the Randy hotel meltdown story was reported last April, in both the Torch and Observer, was tinged with a lot of "a guy who has some serious psychological problems" as opposed to past instances where it was more tinged with "what an out of control asshole."
CEOIII
Boudin rouge








Since: 25.7.02
From: Franklin, PA

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 17 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.54
    Originally posted by Irv Muchnick
    Orton, 27, is a third-generation wrestler. He is engaged to marry Samantha Speno, a part-time gymnastics teacher, this fall. Last year Randy and Samantha moved into a country-club estate in High Ridge, Missouri (suburban St. Louis), complete with a gym, a hot tub, and four decks.


Um.......this is germane to the situation HOW?

I don't like Orton either, but the story seems to go, "Orton may have tried to off himself, WWE's drug policy is suspect at best, and oh, by the way, he's marrying a nice girl and has a pretty cool house."

Are this schmuck and Phil Mushnick related to former wrestling promoter Sam Mushnick, who Vince McMahon pretty much bankrupted way back when? It'd explain a lot.



I'm Charlie Owens, good night, and good luck.
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
    Originally posted by CEOIII
    Are this schmuck and Phil Mushnick related to former wrestling promoter Sam Mushnick, who Vince McMahon pretty much bankrupted way back when? It'd explain a lot.


Irv is the nephew of Sam.
MookieZ
Medisterpoelse








Since: 19.9.07
From: Rochester NY

Since last post: 2554 days
Last activity: 2437 days
#10 Posted on
Sam Muchnick promoted his last card in 1982, somewhat before Vince McMahon was 'bankrupting' promoters. He is one of the few promoters that had a reputation for honesty.

Irv Muchnick is his nephew, as Mayhem as already pointed out. Check out his book, Wrestling Babylon. It is very good.

As for Phil Mushnick... as Mr. Smithers says, he spells and pronounces his name differently. He is, as far as the mainstream media goes, one of the most perceptive writers in the country when it comes to wrestling.
Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 16 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.48
    Originally posted by MookieZ
    As for Phil Mushnick... as Mr. Smithers says, he spells and pronounces his name differently. He is, as far as the mainstream media goes, one of the most perceptive writers in the country when it comes to wrestling.


Hmm... should I say "Welcome to the board Phil Mushnick", or would rather stay 'anonymous' as MookieZ?

It seems kinda obvious.
CEOIII
Boudin rouge








Since: 25.7.02
From: Franklin, PA

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 17 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.54
    Originally posted by MookieZ
    As for Phil Mushnick... as Mr. Smithers says, he spells and pronounces his name differently. He is, as far as the mainstream media goes, one of the most perceptive writers in the country when it comes to wrestling.


The mainstream media also believes intelligent people watch American Idol, Barack Obama isn't "black enough", and pro wrestling isn't worth reporting on unless it's bad news. (Notice we didn't get any mainstream pub for WMXX, but both guys who had world titles at the end of that show die, and they're suddenly interested.)

If the mainstream media actually respect Phil's opinion on ANYTHING, I'm glad I stopped watching the news after 9/11.



I'm Charlie Owens, good night, and good luck.
PeterStork
Sujuk








Since: 25.1.02
From: Chicagoland with Hoosiers, or "The Region"

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.17
    Originally posted by Cerebus
      Originally posted by MookieZ
      As for Phil Mushnick... as Mr. Smithers says, he spells and pronounces his name differently. He is, as far as the mainstream media goes, one of the most perceptive writers in the country when it comes to wrestling.


    Hmm... should I say "Welcome to the board Phil Mushnick", or would rather stay 'anonymous' as MookieZ?

    It seems kinda obvious.


Hmmm, given Phil's tendency to bash Vince whenever possible (even if he sometimes has it coming) if that were Phil then

    Originally posted by MookieZ
    was 'bankrupting' promoters


would probably read

    Originally posted by MookieZ
    was BANKRUPTING PROMOTERS




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oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1951 days
Last activity: 1885 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro

      If you feel comfortable enough spilling mental health secrets on the internet, you at least ought to connect the dots.


    Not to wrongfully propagate something, but if you were looking for SUPPORTING CLUES, the way the Randy hotel meltdown story was reported last April, in both the Torch and Observer, was tinged with a lot of "a guy who has some serious psychological problems" as opposed to past instances where it was more tinged with "what an out of control asshole."


Irv's now clarified that part, saying that this supposed suicide attempt took place LAST year. So there goes that idea.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.92
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro

        If you feel comfortable enough spilling mental health secrets on the internet, you at least ought to connect the dots.


      Not to wrongfully propagate something, but if you were looking for SUPPORTING CLUES, the way the Randy hotel meltdown story was reported last April, in both the Torch and Observer, was tinged with a lot of "a guy who has some serious psychological problems" as opposed to past instances where it was more tinged with "what an out of control asshole."


    Irv's now clarified that part, saying that this supposed suicide attempt took place LAST year. So there goes that idea.


The hotel room incident was last year, though. So the timeframe still fits.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Bournemouth, UK

Since last post: 90 days
Last activity: 4 min.
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.06
His follow-up column to his initial one led me to believe that it's bullshit, based on his stance of "It must be true because someone told me it was and if anyone disagrees with me, then they're wrong."
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1951 days
Last activity: 1885 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
        Originally posted by JustinShapiro

          If you feel comfortable enough spilling mental health secrets on the internet, you at least ought to connect the dots.


        Not to wrongfully propagate something, but if you were looking for SUPPORTING CLUES, the way the Randy hotel meltdown story was reported last April, in both the Torch and Observer, was tinged with a lot of "a guy who has some serious psychological problems" as opposed to past instances where it was more tinged with "what an out of control asshole."


      Irv's now clarified that part, saying that this supposed suicide attempt took place LAST year. So there goes that idea.


    The hotel room incident was last year, though. So the timeframe still fits.


The hotel incident was this spring, just after WrestleMania., as Justin said. Irv has placed the incident squarely in 2006.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Irv spoke more in detail about this on Alvarez's Wednesday Figure Four Daily (subscription required). In the interview, he again places the incident as happening during Orton's 2006 suspension (starting in April.) Irv said he talked to, among others, friends close to Randy Orton and a 'very credible wrestling journalist' (not exactly right, but the gist) who was able to confirm the story with their own independent source.

When this subject is first brought up, Irv states that this isn't a story he feels confident enough that he'd use in a newspaper article, but feels there are less stringent requirements for blogs. He's mentioned it as a rumor for the same reasons.

After listening to the interview, it sounds like Irv could easily prove Randy Orton was taken to a St. Louis area hospital and treated for an overdose in that time line if required. I wasn't as convinced Irv could prove the OD came as a result from a suicide and it seemed to some amount he was guessing at Randy Orton's mental standpoint at the time.

Regardless of why Randy ended up in the hospital, being there for an overdose while suspended is bad enough on it's own. If Irv is sure it's a suicide, I guess you go with that, but I would've skipped the cause and played up the effect.



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Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.92
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
      The hotel room incident was last year, though. So the timeframe still fits.
    The hotel incident was this spring, just after WrestleMania., as Justin said. Irv has placed the incident squarely in 2006.

Noted. Weird. I could've sworn that occurred last year.

(edited by CRZ on 20.9.07 1352)


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Actually I think that's been there before but I downloaded WinAmp back in January or Febuary and seeing that title. Thought it was a little odd but didn't think much of it. I guess somebody must be a wrestling fan to put something like that up.
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