To be fair, Girardi's in-game managerial skills left a lot to be desired (granted, he's a first year manager, but..) and he had some weird plans in spring training that thankfully the front office put a stop to (Cabrera at 1st base? Uggla in the OF?). And two of their top young pitchers started the year in the bullpen so they could have space in the rotation for.....Brian Moehler?
But none of that matters because it all comes down to the fact that he couldn't get along with management. I'm generally not as anti-management as most Marlin fans are, but they'll have a tough time spinning this to the media.
Considering how well Girardi did with the young guys on the Marlins, if the Cubs DO decide to sign him, they may just have to suck it up and completely start from scratch. Meaning trade everyone, including Wood and Prior, and just rebuild from the bottom up. Girardi would have them contending within two or three years.
Of course, that's a big 'if'. San Francisco may just have the same idea.
TEN YEARS AGO IN WRESTLING HISTORY: SEPTEMBER 1996 WWF: Shawn Michaels d. Mankind at Mind Games, one of the 90's best matches. Also, some guy named Steve Austin made it his personal mission to bring Bret Hart back to the ring.
WCW: The nWo prevailed in War Games with the help of a Fake Sting. The real Sting walked out on WCW, kicking off one of the biggest angles in the company's history.
Originally posted by geemoneyBut none of that matters because it all comes down to the fact that he couldn't get along with management. I'm generally not as anti-management as most Marlin fans are, but they'll have a tough time spinning this to the media.
This is really the point. Even if you assume Jeffrey Loria to be a total tool, it's his team. If he doesn't want Girardi working for him, that's his call. If Girardi doesn't like it, tough.
I think there's enough blame on both sides in this whole mess. Managers get too much credit when their teams do well (Girardi this year, LaRussa most years, etc.) and too much blame when they lose, too.
The thing is, Jeff Loria actually is a total tool. Just ask whatever baseball fans are left in Montreal.
THe other hot rumor about Girardi is that he'll be hired as a bench coach by the Yankees as the heir apparent to Torre.
Scene: Mark DeRosa's brain. The year is 2005. Part of Mark DeRosa's brain: Come on, another position change? One day it's second base, the next day right field, now it's third? Why, I oughta go into Buck's office and throw his talking fish on the floor! Other part of Mark DeRosa's brain: Hold on, other part of the brain. We're making $500,000 this year. Last year we made $725,000. All for playing a damn kids' game. This is, as they say in Brainland, a no-"us"-er. We're not going to complain. Part of Mark DeRosa's brain: You're right, dude. Let's go back to looking at this crazy porn Teixeira gave us!
Originally posted by piemanThis is really the point. Even if you assume Jeffrey Loria to be a total tool, it's his team. If he doesn't want Girardi working for him, that's his call. If Girardi doesn't like it, tough.
Well than why discuss anything sports related? Just because fans have no authority, doesn't mean they have no interest in or right to discuss team or league happenings. When the Royals are still struggling to get to 60 wins five years from now, are you going to just grin and bear it or start to wonder when the damn owners are going to get their act together? I think Marlins fans (all three of them) have every right to let the owners know how stupid this decision is.
Originally posted by piemanManagers get too much credit when their teams do well (LaRussa most years, etc.).
Sorry pieman, I don't mean to attack you. In fact, I read through this thread, remembered these two thoughts I wanted to respond to, and was conflicted when I saw you typed both of them. Anyway:
I agree with your main point, that sometimes managers are given a shitty deck and theres no right way to deal it, but I don't think Tony LaRussa deserves to be singled out here. Success follows a guy everywhere he goes and he's just getting lucky? He's third all-time in wins. He's a four-time Manager of the Year. The guy's managed 27 years and come in first 11 times. His team has come in first 10 of the last 18 years and five of the last seven. That's not all Albert Pujols or Jose Canseco. The Cardinals winning the NL Central in 2002 was a miracle. Them staying on top of that division so consistently - they've been to the playoffs in seven of his 11 seasons there - is pretty damn impressive. Here's a list of teams that have been in the playoffs in at least seven of the last 11 years:
St. Louis Cardinals New York Yankees Atlanta Braves
In a time when the parity bug is even creeping into Major League Baseball, the St. Louis Cardinals in this decade have become postseason mainstays. Sure they had McGwire, Pujols, Edmonds and Rolen, but Houston's had stars. Chicago ... well, I won't even pretend like they belong in this discussion. But no, year in, year out, the Cardinals are the favorites, the Cardinals are the ones winning. What's the difference between the Astros and the Cardinals? Notm uch, I'd say. So why are the Cardinals still playing while Houston sits at home? Because of the man calling the shots, that's why. Look at LaRussa's decision to gamble and sit Chris Carpenter on Sunday to save him for the Padres as an example of his best work. As a direct result of that decision, the Redbirds took control of that series.
Now I wish they'd win a damn World Series. Stupid LaRussa...
The Philadelphia fans must love seeing a team with J.D. Drew and Rolen pull an el-choko. And remember, Jimy Williams managing was a key reason the Red Sox were a playoff team two straight years, and possibly a third if he wasn't dumped by Duquette.