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23.4.18 0850
The W - Current Events & Politics - Debate II
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Lap cheong

Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 4108 days
Last activity: 3950 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
First off, good debate. I was bored by the last one. Much more fiery this time, on both sides.

Kerry keeps looking good, but he's still all style and no substance. Nothing in this man's record makes one believe he will either cut taxes or aggressively pursue terrorists. The only thing I trust him to do is sign every treaty that crosses his desk.

Points to Charlie Gibson, too. Good question selection, good in going after the candidates.

I loved the abortion question. It's a terrifically charged issue, and one that ought to be addressed at some point, in some way. I greatly enjoyed Bush's answer. Very straightforward. I can't imagine Kerry's arguments enthused the pro-choice crowd. He clearly believes in federal funding for abortion, but couldnt come out and say so. But maybe it's irrelevant, politically.

Anyway, onward and upward to another 100 useless posts!

In Theo We Trust
Promote this thread!

Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

Since last post: 3635 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.63
Maybe it's because I wake up to him each morning (on my TV), but I really enjoyed Charles Gibson, too. I like how he called out both Bush and Kerry in regards to cutting the deficit, and on a few other issues as well. He wasn't letting them get away with much.
The Goon

Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Since last post: 167 days
Last activity: 141 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.08
I found that there was a more forceful tone, almost angrier, with both the President and the Senator. There was a better flow to this debate than the last one.

And, my favorite line: "rumors on the internets..."

Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 4265 days
Last activity: 4262 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.28
Pres. Bush came out against slavery. I'm glad he's willing to tackle the tough issues.

Weekly Visitor - Constantly inane for over 2 years!


Since: 1.2.02
From: Appleton, WI

Since last post: 2026 days
Last activity: 2026 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
I chuckled when the crowd applauded at the end, cutting-off Charlie. I was just thinking "they're playing him off the stage".

There were a few times when I saw openings for Bush to jump on Kerry, and he did, but not nearly as forceful as I thought he could have.

Overall, it was a pretty balanced debate. It didn't change my mind, but there were some interresting moments.

I'm ScreamingHeadGuy, and I approve this post.


Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 2707 days
Last activity: 1615 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
I laughed at that, too. There's more than one Internet? Awesome! The wrestling mark in me wanted Bush to start ripping on the "Internet fans."

Both guys were much more confrontational. Whichever guy you were for going in is probably the guy you'll think won.

(edited by asteroidboy on 8.10.04 2227)

-- Asteroid Boy

Now on 411

Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"If you want me to watch the shows, buy tickets when you come to town, buy t-shirts, and pay for a PPV every three days, you bet your ass I'm going to hard to impress. And when you give me stuff that blows and then tell me I don't get a vote on sharing that opinion, I'm going to tell you to go catch an STD." - Hogan's My Dad

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 4265 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.28
Now Bush is on tv saying "MissourAH" over and over again. I can't stand that.

Weekly Visitor - Constantly inane for over 2 years!


Since: 10.8.04
From: Dan Rathers Bath House

Since last post: 4944 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.66
(deleted by CRZ on 8.10.04 2244)
Barbwire Mike
Boudin rouge

Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

Since last post: 4577 days
Last activity: 4570 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.84
After the last debate I was actually scared for our Prez tonight, but he did quite well. I'd give him the win but like Asteroid Boy said if I was a Kerry guy I'd probably be just as certain W got owned.

Charlie > Jim & Gwen If you don't read us, you're probably gay
Nuclear Winter
Boudin rouge

Since: 9.11.03
From: Bedford, Michigan

Since last post: 1484 days
Last activity: 35 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
Is there a way to verify whether or not the president really received $84 from a timber company he may or may not own?

John Kerry: "The president received $84 from a timber company he owns..."

George W. Bush: "I own a timber company? That's news to me... need some wood?"

Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

Since last post: 1796 days
Last activity: 924 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
    Is there a way to verify whether or not the president really received $84 from a timber company he may or may not own?

Click Here (

    Originally posted by DEAN~!
    - Booker T stands like a statue in the ring. Paul London runs around the ring, bouncing off the ropes, jumps up and sticks his knees around Booker T ears and Powerbombs himself. London gets up and takes Booker T's hand and balls it up into a fist. He then extends Booker T's arm before hitting the ropes and smashing nose first into Booker T's fist. Paul, bleeding profusely, climbs onto Booker T's shoulders and dives into the second row- landing shoulder first onto the fixed chairs, getting more hardway color from his quickly sweeling upper lip. London runs into the ring and opens up Booker T's fist and raises it up to his face, as if Booker T was staring into his own hand. London when dives over the turnbuckle face first into the Spanish Announcers table. After the countout, London comes back into the ring and lays Booker T down on the ground while bending Booker's arms and legs and then spins him around. We go to a commercial for those burning Trojan condoms.

1,000 (

Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

Since last post: 4469 days
Last activity: 4073 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
I thought it was great tonight and I would have to give the edge to Bush. He has this aura about him when he speaks in front of people with a mic in his hand. Kerry looked strong tonight too not backing down to the things Bush said.

Line of the night was Bush saying "Want any wood?"

Big Brother

Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
    Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
    Is there a way to verify whether or not the president really received $84 from a timber company he may or may not own?
Thanks to MSNBC...

President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)

{ EDIT: I lose by three minutes - of course, my link WORKS... ;-) }

(edited by CRZ on 8.10.04 2317)

Lap cheong

Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 3219 days
Last activity: 824 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.21
Good debate. Much closer than the first one. Bush DEFINITLEY seemed better in this one. Both seemed very comfortable out there answering questions. Overall, I'd give a slight victory to Kerry, however, it was a close-call. Onward to debate #3.

The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
Joseph Ryder
Head cheese

Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 2476 days
Last activity: 2009 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.30
    Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
    After the last debate I was actually scared for our Prez tonight, but he did quite well. I'd give him the win but like Asteroid Boy said if I was a Kerry guy I'd probably be just as certain W got owned.

    Charlie > Jim & Gwen

Yep...W got owned

Palpatine, I'm pro-choice, and I thought Kerry's answer killed it. And he had the little touches...bringing up names of earlier questioners, not yelling at the crowd, starting every reply with 15 seconds on the LAST topic so he always gets the last word, and little-known information such as the fact that Bush was technically a small-business owner in 2001 with his $84 ("heh...uhh...needanywood?").

The problem for Bush is that Kerry is clearly worlds ahead as far as debating goes. If you love Bush, you love what he's saying, and vice versa, but if you're undecided, Kerry's doing ALL of the little things. Bush is yelling at the crowd (the 1st half), starting every reply with "Uhhhhh" or "Yeah, uhhhhh," disagreeing with questioners, arguably making jokes during the sensitive topics (abortion), and jumping all over nice moderators.

Which I don't see changing on Wednesday.
Lap cheong

Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 4108 days
Last activity: 3950 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Joseph -

I think Kerry was very equivocal there. The woman was asking if her tax dollars would go to abortion; Kerry didn't want to say so outright, but if you listen closely, he said yes. Rather than take a stance for "reproductive rights," he kinda wobbled.

I think that's a personal quibble, though, on my part.

Also, Bush wins the one-liner debate going away for the second week in a row. Add "I own a timber company?" to the pantheon with "You forgot Poland."

(edited by PalpatineW on 9.10.04 0107)

In Theo We Trust

Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 4540 days
Last activity: 4540 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
I thought Bush came off better then in #1 but he sounded really weak on health care and the environment. Just contrast how fired up he gets when talking about war to when he has to talk about domestic issues.

Did anyone else notice the smile/head nod thing Bush does when he thinks he gave a really good answer? I thought he was giving it to the person who asked the question but then I saw him turn and do it to no one.

As a Canadian, Bush's irresponsible economics have helped to give us a stronger loonie but that's good or bad depending on what business you're in. I'm not sold on Kerry's grandoise plan but I do believe he would be a good stop gap President if he can deliver on a 1/10th of his economic policy.

I'll be interested to see the ratings for the debate and if they went up because if they go up again on Wednesday, I predict a Kerry win. I'll put a loonie on it. My loose theory is that if the ratings keep climbing, that means Kerry's strategy of not differentiating himself too much from Bush on Iraq has worked and most swing voters see them as equals on keeping them safe. So the final debate is on domestic issues and in the podium format and Bush struggles to be convincing with both.

"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin

Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 2547 days
Last activity: 1002 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Bush got better as the night went on. I was extremely nervous after the first twenty minutes.

The names thing that Kerry did was a nice touch. He made it seem so natural that you forgot he was taking notes on the names and what questions they asked.

"Want some wood?"- awesome retort.

Gibson does get a lot of credit too as mentioned before for trying to get both of them on the record about the deficit, and neither one of them bit.

All in all, I think Kerry did much better this time for himself in this debate than the last, as did Bush.


Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3512 days
Last activity: 2379 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.76
Gosh, Grimis, you and I keep agreeing here this week. Amazing.

I thought both guys did better this time than last. Polls, btw, are split and even on the outcome this time around. I too, thought Bush was getting creamed after the first 15 minutes or so--he was sounded like a repeat of Debate I with no new spin or message--it was tense. Kerry's labelling message was quite awesome, as was Bush's timber comment. Also, see Kerry's point about already having a "back-door draft."

I really thought Bush was going to totally unravel the first time he angrily got up, interrupting Gibson in order to respond to Kerry. He was clearly angry for about the next 5 minutes or so. Bush did a good job of eye-batting instead of scowling. Seriously. I watched on CSPAN this time to see the split screen effect.

Kudos to Gibson for going after both men forcefully as well.

Can Bush stop using the Fear button, though? I'm happy Kerry noted it this time. Naive and dangerous? Touche.

ITVR: In-Jokes like 90's De La Soul--come be entertained AND confused.
Six Degrees of Me

Since: 21.2.02

Since last post: 530 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.44
I think both candidates did a great job explaining their points of view, which (as Bush and Kerry both mentioned) are pretty much polar opposites re: the direction they will take this country if elected. Many of the "gray areas" were eliminated, unless you want to take into account Kerry's "I respect your..." "but I'm going to..." line that is pandering at it's finest

Bush really could have went for the jugular with the voting record, but again held back - many of the pundits wondered why he didn't bring up Kerry's voting record and defiant stance on Gulf War 91, but I think Bush does not feel the need to do any of that, because he believes his opinions / positions are RIGHT, Kerry's are wrong and doesn't fully grasp why people can't see it.

Kerry's Shitting in His Oatmeal Line of the Night:

Q: Senator Kerry, would you be willing to look directly into the camera and, using simple and unequivocal language, give the American people your solemn pledge not to sign any legislation that will increase the tax burden on families earning less than $200,000 a year during your first term?

KERRY: Absolutely. Yes. Right into the camera. Yes. I am not going to raise taxes.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...all that was missing was "Read My Lips". Of course, people are going to fall for the old "tax the top 2%" populist bullshit, but I thought Bush did a great job explaining basic business principles. Depending on your point of view, both sides were presented clearly.

I don't know why Bush felt the need to throw the word "liberal" around like he did - anyone voting for him doesn't care and I can't imagine too many undecideds really care that much about broad stroke labels anymore.

I don't think there is any need for a third debate - as mentioned, both points of view were clearly defined, which is all you can really ask for

And what was up with that lady behind Bush? When he was answering questions, she would always be framed in the upper right hand part of the screen during close up camera shots. Heh - she had her own damn show going on with facial expressions and hand gestures - one time she had her HAND AROUND HER OWN THROAT like she was choking herself! Another time featured her picking her teeth and chewing her nails, and yet ANOTHER shot saw her trying her best not to 1) fall asleep and / or 2) throw up on the guy sitting next to her!

Paranoia says she was a "plant"...but I think it was just one of those weird things that happen when you put the unwashed masses on any kind of serious stage...anyway you look at it, that's not how *I* would want to get my 15 minutes of fame


Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high...

FLEA - - THE IWC 100! And The Wrestling Dead Pool!!
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Can I say that I don't like some of this news about Arnold, and think that this even perhaps makes him a fundamentally *bad* candidate, but that I'M GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM ANYWAY just to piss off Gray Davis and the hypocritical sleazeballs who didn't care ...
- DMC, New CA Field Poll (2003)
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