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23.7.14 2054
The W - Random - Fahrenheit 9/11 Reactions
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Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.24
I just got back from seeing Fahrenheit 9/11. It's still sinking in, but it was amazingly unsettling. The first hour could be subtitled "Bush Does The Darndest Things". It showcases the insanely moronic things Dubya has done, then shows the continued relationship between the Bushes and the Bin Ladens. And then that segues into probably the most gripping part of the film: Iraq. We see tons of troops talking about what's going on, tons of troops talking about wanting to go home, and tons of shots of maimed Iraqi civilians. Amazingly well done. The only piece I felt detracted from the whole was a confrontation between a woman who'd lost a son in Iraq and a pro-war protester. It seemed very staged. Everything else fit, largely because 95% of everything is news footage, interviews with Congressmen or Senators or former military or FBI folks.

Keep in mind that the film is not so much anti-Republican as much as it's anti-corruption. Moore's managed once again to craft a film that's at once gripping, frightening and humourous. It angers up the blood, then allows laughter as an outlet for the anger. It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.

Highest recommendation.



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Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.86
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.


Moore wouldn't like that if it actually happened, since he is VERY much in the "rich" group, as much has he pretends he's still some regular guy living in Flint.




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Since: 11.1.02
From: Japan

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.99
It isn't saying being rich is wrong. Just the rich always getting away with doing wrong. For ref. see O.J., Ken Lay, Marc Rich, etc...






meatcurtains
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Since: 12.5.04

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.83
    Originally posted by SeVen ™
    It isn't saying being rich is wrong. Just the rich always getting away with doing wrong. For ref. see O.J., Ken Lay, Marc Rich, etc...

For every rich guy getting away with something, there are a bunch of poor people who let them get off.



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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.15
I'd see it if the cinemas in town were actually showing it.
Sure they've got room for "Garfield" on five screens, but do you think they could squeeze in a movie that might actually make you think??? There are two cinemas like five miles apart that show the exact same list of movies. Frustrating.
DrOp
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Since: 2.1.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
meatcurtains said:

    For every rich guy getting away with something, there are a bunch of poor people who let them get off.



The whole concept of "jury of your peers" precludes that happening in most cases. People with wealth *usually* get tried by people in their zip code area, who are also usually wealthy (unless there is some weird change of venue).


Back on topic:
I know Moore can be erratic and maniacal. Nonetheless, I have a special place for a guy who shows that a convicted con who is white will get a cab before a black businessman most of the time. And if Bush let himself be recorded being simple, why should that be anyone else's problem?



"It is YOU--the quality of your minds, the integrity of your souls, and the determination of your wills--that will decide your future and shape your lives."

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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by dwaters
    Sure they've got room for "Garfield" on five screens, but do you think they could squeeze in a movie that might actually make you think???
Garfield is probably more factual....



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DrOp
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Since: 2.1.02

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
http://www.cnn.com/ 2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/ 24/review.fahrenheit/ index.html


    Documentarians always have their own points of view, but Moore takes his positions and then guards them with pitbull-like intensity (though with humor as well). That tendency was plain in such past efforts as "Roger and Me" and the Academy Award-winning "Bowling For Columbine." "Fahrenheit 9/11" takes his burning passion to new heights; the heat is downright tangible.

    But the question isn't whether "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a fair and balanced look at its subject matter. Of course it isn't. Rather, is it good filmmaking?

    The answer is yes.



Is this not factual? (not including he writer's opinion):

    Perhaps the most damaging footage shows Bush on September 11, sitting in a Florida classroom for a full seven minutes after he had been told that the second tower had been struck, and that it was clear the horrific events in New York were a terrorist attack, not a tragic accident. Moore lets this moment go on and on: The president of the United States, stone-faced in front of dozens of schoolchildren, doing absolutely nothing, as our nation comes under attack.






"It is YOU--the quality of your minds, the integrity of your souls, and the determination of your wills--that will decide your future and shape your lives."

Benjamin E. Mays, Morehouse College President, 1940-1967
AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.34
    Originally posted by DrOp
    http://www.cnn.com/ 2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/ 24/review.fahrenheit/ index.html


      Documentarians always have their own points of view, but Moore takes his positions and then guards them with pitbull-like intensity (though with humor as well). That tendency was plain in such past efforts as "Roger and Me" and the Academy Award-winning "Bowling For Columbine." "Fahrenheit 9/11" takes his burning passion to new heights; the heat is downright tangible.

      But the question isn't whether "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a fair and balanced look at its subject matter. Of course it isn't. Rather, is it good filmmaking?

      The answer is yes.



    Is this not factual? (not including he writer's opinion):

      Perhaps the most damaging footage shows Bush on September 11, sitting in a Florida classroom for a full seven minutes after he had been told that the second tower had been struck, and that it was clear the horrific events in New York were a terrorist attack, not a tragic accident. Moore lets this moment go on and on: The president of the United States, stone-faced in front of dozens of schoolchildren, doing absolutely nothing, as our nation comes under attack.





So Dubya should have gotten up, scared the bejezus out of the kids and left. Like - do you think that everything that could have gone on wasn't going on and do you think an executive could have changed was was going on in 7 minutes. Dubya already knew that Tower 1 had been hit and he already dealt with the situation as best as a guy who is in an executive role can - he delegated authority - to people who scrambled jets and did other stuff - wrongly it seems, but those 7 minutes of Dubya wouldn't have changed that.





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oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.64
Oh come the fuck on. How is him excusing himself and getting himself into the role he's supposed to be filling scaring the bejesus out of a roomful of kids. A quick smile, a "sorry, I'm needed"....nope, just sit there, THAT'LL help.

I mean, I'm not saying that there's a whole lot he could've DONE in that time, but I sure do find it indicative of the man's mental capacity for the job that he's in that he feels the need to just sit there for seven minutes after being told his country's under attack.

(edited by oldschoolhero on 25.6.04 1046)


Once upon a time in China, some believe, around the year one double-ought three, head priest of the White Lotus Clan, Pai Mei was walking down the road, contemplating whatever it is that a man of Pai Mei's infinite power contemplates - which is another way of saying "who knows" - when a Shaolin monk appeared, traveling in the opposite direction. As the monk and the priest crossed paths, Pai Mei, in a practically unfathomable display of generosity, gave the monk the slightest of nods. The nod was not returned. Now was it the intention of the Shaolin monk to insult Pai Mei or did he just fail to see the generous social gesture? The motives of the monk remain unknown. What is known, are the consequences. The next morning Pai Mei appeared at the Shaolin Temple and demanded of the Temple's head abbot that he offer Pai Mei his neck to repay the insult. The Abbot at first tried to console Pai Mei, only to find Pai Mei was inconsolable. So began the massacre of the Shaolin Temple and all 60 of the monks inside at the fists of the White Lotus. And so began the legend of Pai Mei's five point palm exploding heart technique.
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネケポăƒȘă‚č

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Oh come the fuck on. How is him excusing himself and getting himself into the role he's supposed to be filling scaring the bejesus out of a roomful of kids. A quick smile, a "sorry, I'm needed"....nope, just sit there, THAT'LL help.

    I mean, I'm not saying that there's a whole lot he could've DONE in that time, but I sure do find it indicative of the man's mental capacity for the job that he's in that he feels the need to just sit there for seven minutes after being told his country's under attack.

    (edited by oldschoolhero on 25.6.04 1046)
We're retreading old ground here. I STILL would rather have this discussion take place in Politics (if at all).



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krakken2000
Kishke








Since: 31.10.02
From: seattle

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.14
I decided since it was a slow work day I would go take a long lunch and catch a matinee of "Fahrenheit 9/11"

Imagine my surprise when I arrive at the downtown Seattle multiplex and not only is there a line practiclaly out the door but almost all showings for the entire day are sold out.

So with my plans thwarted I decided to come back to work and goof off on the internet.

Oddly enough though there are plenty of seats for "White Chicks."




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AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.34
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Oh come the **** on. How is him excusing himself and getting himself into the role he's supposed to be filling scaring the bejesus out of a roomful of kids. A quick smile, a "sorry, I'm needed"....nope, just sit there, THAT'LL help.

      I mean, I'm not saying that there's a whole lot he could've DONE in that time, but I sure do find it indicative of the man's mental capacity for the job that he's in that he feels the need to just sit there for seven minutes after being told his country's under attack.

      (edited by oldschoolhero on 25.6.04 1046)
    We're retreading old ground here. I STILL would rather have this discussion take place in Politics (if at all).


Zed, it's a political movie. I have to admit I didn't even realize we were in Random and not politics. But, if we were talking dodgeball, we'd be talking sports. If it was New York Minute, it might be anorexia -

Michael Moore's whole reason for making this film (I'm sorry, A documentary (a non-fiction film which usually, although not always, has a particular point of view regarding its subject matter;)is true and Moore has made untrue statements and sliced out-of contect film bits together in his so-called documentories before, especially in Bowling for Columbine, so I refuse to call this film one until I see it and determine if it really is one) is to hurt the president, not to present facts. It kind of meets this definition:

A way of presenting a belief that seeks to generate acceptance without regard to facts or the right of others to be heard. Propaganda often presents the same argument repeatedly, in the simplest terms and ignores all rebuttal or counter-argument.

Since Al Gore accused the president of using the Gestapo to undermine the free press (The administration works closely with a network of "rapid response" digital Brown Shirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for "undermining support for our troops." at http://www.alternet.org/election04/19047/ ), I think I'll award Michael Moore the Leni Riefenstahl award.

and I'll copy this in politics and not respond again here.





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Quezzy
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Since: 6.1.02
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.20
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    It angers up the blood, then allows laughter as an outlet for the anger. It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.


It might be a great movie, and it might be factual or not, I don't know for sure. But I don't see what point it proves, if he just leaves it to the viewer. I mean what's the point of attacking someone with a hateful documentary unless you have some kind of solution from the problem. Did George W. do some things that weren't good? Sure, he's not perfect, but how do we fix that, give us a solution to this problem you've revealed. Instead of making a movie that is only going to bash George W. and get yourself praise, why don't you find a better candidate and use your money to support is campaign. It's not enough to just point a problem, think of a way to fix it then I'll listen.



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rockdotcom_2.0
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.43
    Originally posted by Quezzy
      Originally posted by Freeway420
      It angers up the blood, then allows laughter as an outlet for the anger. It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.


    It might be a great movie, and it might be factual or not, I don't know for sure. But I don't see what point it proves, if he just leaves it to the viewer. I mean what's the point of attacking someone with a hateful documentary unless you have some kind of solution from the problem. Did George W. do some things that weren't good? Sure, he's not perfect, but how do we fix that, give us a solution to this problem you've revealed. Instead of making a movie that is only going to bash George W. and get yourself praise, why don't you find a better candidate and use your money to support is campaign. It's not enough to just point a problem, think of a way to fix it then I'll listen.



But what do you think would happen if Moore made this film as an explicit endorsement of John Kerry?. Jesus, The GOP would go absolutely batshit on a level extreme for even them. Im a Kerry supporter and I dont think I would want Moore trumpeting electing Kery in this movie.



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avonhun
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.37
although i dont agree with all the things said in this movie, it is a good condensed source of information for a number of events that transpired in this country in the last four years. the unconstitutional 2000 presidential election, the war in iraq, the patriot act... my major problem with moore in the past is that he presented information without a direct message. this film has a clear message: to rid the white house of george bush. go see this movie and make up your own mind because it is unlikely you will find an unbiased view of the film, including this one.
Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43

    Originally posted by avonhun
    the unconstitutional 2000 presidential election


When did that happen? Don't recall any ruling on that...



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fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
Re: The Seven Minutes

Wouldn't you want your President to be Type A? Regardless of his politics, a Type A person would not have just sat there.



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ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.06
Regardless, nothing that Bush done in those seven minutes would have changed a damn thing. It's not significant (his explanation was that he was waiting for more information, which isn't that unreasonable. As far as looking dumbfounded, he ALWAYS looks dumbfounded.).

I fear that there will be more emphasis and debate placed on this meaningless seven minutes than the hours, days, months, and now years of Bush actions since then that deserve more scrutiny than what happened in that school.



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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
In case you don't watch the News Hour, NY and LA Times film critics Jonathan Foreman and Kenneth Turan engaged in discussion and PBS is good enough to provide RealAudio:

http://audio.pbs.org:8080/ ramgen/newshour/expansion/ 2004/06/25/moore28.rm? altplay=moore28.rm





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