After watching RAW this week and last week, I can honestly say that Lita is the HHH of the women's division. Let me explain:
Being a huge Trish Fan, I didn't expect Trish to win the divas battle royal last week because that would mess up the storyline. The two women who should have won it were either Molly (So she could get revenge on Victoria) or Nidia (They are suppose to be giving her a huge push). Now, Lita did not deserve to win that match or get a shot at the title. How long has she been off TV? How many matches has she had since coming back? Not many. Trish has practically called the last two matches by herself.
Lita is no longer the best female wrestler on the roster. When she came to the WWF in 2000, she was one a couple of girls who could actually wrestle. Ivory and Jacqueline were used sporadically and Tori didn't have many matches after joing DX. The only reason Lita looked so good in the ring was because she was fighting Trish, who didn't know how to wrestle at the time, and Stephanie McMahon. Anyone would look good against two people who don't know how to wrestle. Matt Hardy said in his book that Lita carried Trish and Steph in those matches.
Fast forward to 2001, Molly Holly has been in the company for ahwile and Lita isn't doing much. She fueds with Chyna and Chyna whoops her. Lita doesn't have another female feud until Invasion, where she and Trish took on Stacy and Torrie. Survivor Series 2001, Jazz debuets and yet Trish wins the women's title. Lita is then taken off TV with the Hardyz for 6 weeks, and returns to the top of the division. One problem, the division didn't need her.
At the time, Jazz and Trish were involved in a great feud over the women's belt. Then, all of a sudden, Lita is thrown into the feud and we have a triple Threat match at WMX8? Sounds like a HHH move.
Lita then gets hurt in 2002 and something amazing happens. The women's division takes off without her. Trish and Jazz have good matches over the women's title and then Molly and Trish feud over the title. Then Victoria debuets and you still have Ivory occasionally and then Gail Kim comes. I'm sorry but the time Lita was out hurt was the best thing for the women's division because the women were able to get a ring chemistry with one another.
So Lita comes back and what has she done? A DDT, got her mouth busted and lost at Survivor series to Molly. Almost 8 months of being back and she looks terrible in the ring. She looks lost. Doesn't sell and makes her oppenet look weak. Yet, she is getting to face Victoria for the title at Backlash. Dang this sounds like HHH.
It's like Lita still thinks she's living in 2000 and she's the queen of extreme. The women's division I believe has surpassed Lita and its a shame that these women have to slow down just to make Lita look somewhat decent. Lita is just getting by on popularity and that's a shame.
While much of what you said is true, popularity is what drives ticket sales. As long as the paying public knows Lita and is lured by her name on a card, the Fed will continue to push her.
Even though I am a Lita mark, I do agree with much of what you have said. Her moveset isn't as crisp as many of the other workers who often work with similar movesets. Also, Lita's height and size skews her execution of some moves on the smaller ladies of the field.
Victoria is of a similar size as Lita, so I think that will help their match out some.
The booking of the women's division hasn't been that great, but everything else has been clicking.
I hear what your saying and its true, popularity is what sells. I think what irks me is that the women have worked hard to make thier division something special, especially with the help of Fit Finaly, and its like WWE is forgetting all about that now that they are pushing Lita.
Well...if Lita is the Triple H, Trish Stratus is most definately The Rock of the Women's Division. She can leave and come back, and no matter what she does, she's almost always over with the crowd one way or another. And Molly would be the Benoit, then, since she's by far the most technically sound woman.
I agree with Manding0. Though I like Lita too it's true that she isn't the best woman wrestler in WWE. And I was quite amazed that she won the title-shot, because I really thought that it would have been Molly.
Well, it's Lita who sales. Every time she wrestles she makes audience cheer wildly, better than any other wrestling Diva. In WWE-shop she sales too, so why shouldn't she got pushed? There are people who would like to see better matches and stuff but can it ever happen perfectly? There will always be (and I'm talking about men too) those, who don't have to wrestle as well as some others and they still are in main events..
There are no polarbears in Finland. There aren't that much reindeers than you may think. The temperature isn't always 30 degrees below zero. But we have the Santa Claus, though.
Originally posted by Manding0While much of what you said is true, popularity is what drives ticket sales. As long as the paying public knows Lita and is lured by her name on a card, the Fed will continue to push her.
You are nuts. Lita getting people to come out to shows? I find that *very* hard to believe. And, even if it is true, it would be an extremely small percentage.
Originally posted by StevieRichardsIt's awesome how the WWE has gotten over the blatant sex-appeal of Women's wrestling on Raw and produced awesome matches and decent feuds.
They haven't gotten over it. Just listen to Lawler. Look at all the diva's merchandise they sell (calendars, "Diva's in Paradise", etc.).
As for "awesome matches", I beg to differ. They can have decent matches for what they're working with, but that's about it. Molly is the only polished full-time wrestler in the division (since they don't want to use Jazz for some reason [injury?]). Victoria & Trish have only been wrestling for a few years, and neither are at the point where they can carry lesser opponents. When either are off, it isn't pretty. Lita is atrocious. You can like the women's division, but don't get carried away with the quality of the work & try to tell me they're popping off **** matches without even trying.
1) she hasn't had (been healthy enough to get) a push in a while,
2) they want to trot out at least one prominent women's division feud at a time, and they can't run Victoria vs. Molly _every_ month,
3) Trish is busy with another angle (and they can't run Trish vs. Molly _every_ month), and
4) Lita has a fan base and sells merchandise.
Has she wrestled like she's on Thorazine? Sure. But when her fundamentals (like punches) are weak and she's keeping away from high-risk moves for health & safety reasons, there's not that much else they can have her do. (Other than moving her to Smackdown and having her pose for Playboy, p'raps, but I'm not sure that even Playboy could airbrush that map of downtown Burbank off her shoulder.)
Who else should've won the women's battle royale? The other contestants were:
* Trish -- already locked up in another storyline. * Molly -- just had a turn at the top. * Stacy -- not a wrestler. * Jazz -- on the back of a milk carton for a while now. * Nidia -- a new arrival to the RAW side. * Gail -- you're kidding, right?
Lita pretty much won through process of elimination.
(edited by vsp on 13.4.04 0544) "I'm convinced that Alan Keyes' Renew America is simply a front group for people who got fired from their local Arby's for coming into work drunk." -- Jesse Taylor, Pandagon
I suspect that WWE still think that Lita can get back to her heights of 2000 and she's talked in interviews about her quote-Chemistry-unquote with Victoria in the past so the bookers probably feel that this push will kick off her revitalisation.
I agree with SwatKid's picks on who should've won the battle royal though.
I agree with your assesment Swatkid, well everything except that she is the HHH of the womens division. That would entail her having the belt almost non stop and going over everybody. She's not had the type of push to deserve that kind of scorn. Since she's been back she won a good chunk of matches initially, but soon after she went on a losing streak and disappeared for a while there. And like vsp said they can't have the same women's feud every month.
Besides, there are plenty of workers with the WWE that have gotten by on mark popularity. Too Cool anyone?
Okay, here's my two bit theorizing... grain of salt, etc. I think it's all about the fashion.
Lita's getting a push for the same reason Jeff Hardy kept getting pushed even while he was strung out and sloppy -- she has an undeniable aura, a hot quasi-real gimmick, and popularity with the fans. And all of these things are related.
When I say 'quasi-real gimmick', I mean that unlike the other women's wrestlers, she usually wears real clothing (pants, shirts, etc) and exudes a sort of hip teenage girl next door vibe that doesn't feel Barbie-doll plastic. No day-glow ripped spandex, no blatantly wrestling-oriented mat gear like pads and tights and obvious wrestling boots. I've always liked that about her gimmick, that it's not oversexed (Victoria, Stacey) or oversimplified (Trish just wears a black bodysuit, Molly's outfits are unmemorable). It's stylish. It's real. That's one of the reasons Cena's so over, he doesn't act or dress or even feel like a 'pro rassler' straight out of the 80's, he's got definite grounding in the real world as well to help define his character.
Now, the problem is that Lita's neck problems and her absence mean she hasn't developed as well as the others. She's trying to mix it up with some new moves; most of them seem to involve one-leg-swing setups for DDTs, suplexes, russian leg sweeps, etc. If she can get these smooth and crisp instead of awkward and sloppy (nee Jeff Hardy) and if she learns her craft better, that'll ditch the one main complaint I've got. But if she shows Jeff Hardy's apathy, unwilling to do anything but coast, no matter how popular she is, she's as doomed as he was.
Image is everything, and up until now, that's all what mattered to be a woman in the business. Take a look at the timeline.
--When Lita first valeted for Essa Rios, her combo of sex appeal and a sweet moonsault was relatively innovative compared to WWE's history of women like Elizabeth and Sable. She gave fans something new and something to talk about. --At the business' peak, she becomes the valet for the Hardys. The Hardys were the epitome of young, fresh, talented, and flashy at the time, and Lita was like their female outlet for that very image. It was the perfect match. Lita fed off the vibe of not only the Hardys' style, but also their TLC matches with the Duds and E/C. By interfering in the matches, Lita became part of that environment. --The business' favorite girl next door also won the woman's title against women like Trish and Steph. At the time, expectations for the women's division were very low and even nonexistent, so simply seeing Lita do a couple of sloppy headlocks, a DDT, and bring em home with the sweet moonsault was enough. The matches didn't matter, all that mattered was that the image of Lita was incredible--a sexy girl next door wrestling with the men with a small but flashy moveset. That image was the key. --Lita breaks her neck, and while she's gone, the women's division starts to become something. They give the ball to Molly to be the lead heel, put Victoria and Jazz in the mix, and Trish improves EXTREMELY well to become the center of the division. The matches aren't about skin or a few flashy moves anymore, but rather about real wrestling matches with substance. --A year or two later, and this is where Lita returns and it is shown that the women's division and the business has passed her by. No longer is she the star of the sexy/athletic women anymore, but rather the joke. It's like she woke up from a deep sleep and she doesn't know what's going on because her whole town has changed. And really, it has.
Honestly, I hope Lita improves because she has proven to be an athletic women capable of the business. But it's just a matter of her realizing that she must bring her game to the level of Victoria/Trish/Molly or else she will find herself as an anachronistic former star hanging on to her last ounce of popularity to guide her through the motions.
My take on this (and I doubt many will agree, but anyhoo) is that what Lita needs to do is wrestle a big-man style, a la Goldberg or Bradshaw, and drop the Lucha shit. Her high-flying always looks sloppy (and scary-dangerous) but I always think she looks great in monster-babyface comeback mode, throwing clotheslines and dropping leg-drops and the like. Give up on the damn "Lita-canrana" and work on improving the punches and performing the basic moves like side-walk slams and snap-suplexes more crisply, and she'd have some pretty decent offense going on. I liked the combo last night where she did a snap-suplex, then flipped over Trish's head into a Thesz-press position. On the other hand we had the unfortunate attempt to counter the stratus-faction into a sidewalk slam, that turned out so poorly JR could only call it a "sort of a suplex". Yuck.
"A true champion knows how to deal with adversity."-- Kurt Angle
Makes a good point and I do agree to points (like we all do). I think it is time for Lita to go "I need to change my style". She really needs to I mean she afraid to hurt her self I bet for one and two she looks like sh*t in the ring these days. I watch last night and it was sad, yes she sluggest (might be the word don't know), but it is time for a change Lita wake up and see the wrestling girl. Lita you are beautiful and I bet fun to, but you can't wrestler your old style you need to move on to a ground basic style, do this so you can maybe be good again. Anyone agree with me or what?
Great Muta is a wrestling GOD!! praise the Great Muta.
Originally posted by PikeMakes a good point and I do agree to points (like we all do). I think it is time for Lita to go "I need to change my style". She really needs to I mean she afraid to hurt her self I bet for one and two she looks like sh*t in the ring these days. I watch last night and it was sad, yes she sluggest (might be the word don't know), but it is time for a change Lita wake up and see the wrestling girl. Lita you are beautiful and I bet fun to, but you can't wrestler your old style you need to move on to a ground basic style, do this so you can maybe be good again. Anyone agree with me or what?
It's not that she's just a bad wrestler because bad wrestlers with great crowd heat are tolerable but she looks dangerous in the ring. She looks VERY sloppy with everything she does and looks like she's going to hurt somebody bad. And she didn't even try the headscissors this week where she constantly puts people on their heads.
It's been like 7 months since she came back and I've seen nothing from her in the ring. Send her to OVW for the week and have her on TV as a valet until she can put on a match that looks safe.
Your opinion -- totally entitiled -- no problem. I read Dave's response as specifically addressing the question as asked : "At 37 years old, you're still in your prime, but a lot of wrestlers have gotten into acting.