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18.12.14 1756
The W - Pro Wrestling - John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Who's the better longterm prospect?
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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 5 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
Mark it down now....in five years, who's going to be the bigger WWE star? Who's the better wrestler? Who's the better talker? Who's better right now? And, to quote Bill Simmons, who just flat-out brings more to the table?

Also, just to cut off any debate, Benjamin and Haas both could wrestle rings around these guys, but it's Orton and Cena who have been shoved down our throats by WWE. We'll just examine them as top stars for the time being.



Wait…if it’s MLK Jr. Day AND Pat Patterson’s Birthday…who gets the token win here?-- Matt "Excalibur05" Hocking on a match between Mark Henry and Rico

MH: What’s a clever way to say that I have a penis?
CJ: Uh…Mark, nobody’s going to buy that shirt.
MH: How about if I say that I’ve got…a…uh…?
CJ: Coming up with T-Shirt ideas is hard Mark, why not leave it to the WWE marketing department.
MH: I know! I’ve got it!
CJ: Got what?
MH: Stank! That’s Mah Stank! I’m gonna make a fortune!!
CJ: “That’s Mah Stank”?
MH: On the front it’ll say “Can You Smell It?” and on the back it’ll say “That’s Mah Stank”. Everybody’ll buy it because they’ll think it’s a Rock shirt.
CJ: You know…you might be on to something there, sad to say.
MH: I can’t wait to show mah stank to Trish.

You know, I have a feeling that Spanky didn’t quit, he was fired. Why? So they could repackage Mark Henry as “Stanky.” Think about THAT!
--Matt "Excalibur05" Hocking, 1/19/04 Raw Satire


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thatdude21601
Pickled pork








Since: 22.9.03
From: Easton, md

Since last post: 3913 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.86
Im gonna go with Orton.

I haved liked more of Cena's matches, more of his antics and promos, but I can see him getting stale. I like Cena more currently, but still voting for Orton.

Orton is just ok on the mic, needs to work in the ring more and whatnot too. For some reason I can see him improving greatly in the ring though. He didn't talk at all at first, now they are making do it lots. So I assume he will get a bit better on the mic too. I just see more potential here...plus he is "boy pretty".





"dubya never talks while cheney is drinking water...check that shit out"
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2594 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.74
It is WAY too early to tell.
Bad booking could screw either one. Injuries could screw either one. Other wrestlers could screw either one. Pop culture could screw either one. ETC.
It is WAY too early to tell.



"Huard, gonna go back to throw the ball. Sets up, looks, throws towards the corner of the endzone...it is INTERCEPTED INTERCEPTED, THE DUCKS HAVE THE BALL! Down to the 35, the 40. Kenny Wheaton's gonna score! Kenny Wheaton is gonna score! 20, the 10, Touchdown! Kenny Wheaton on the interception, the most incredible finish to the football game!" www.eatmyassbeavernation.com
bigtotoro
Linguica








Since: 16.2.04
From: houston

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#4 Posted on
Well, in terms of CURRENT characters I have to go with Orton. Cena has a hot gimmick but I do not really see any extended shelf life for it. And whether or not he has it in him to completely change gimmicks remains to be seen.

Orton, on the other hand has the gimmick of cocky asshole and that can run indefinitely(see:flair, michaels, jericho, blanchard...). And you mix in a six month sympathy face turn every few years to freshen things up and he can basically run his career out without a character overhaul.
Y2J 420
Italian
Banned








Since: 2.12.03
From: Illinois

Since last post: 3194 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.34
Orton...



"Win if you can, lose if you must, but in the end, always cheat..." - Jesse "the Body" Ventura
headlock
Cotto








Since: 24.12.03
From: seattle

Since last post: 3907 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.35
So, we're talking Orton/Cena , huh ? Very interesting debate. It's a pretty safe bet at least one of these men (if not both) will make it big...probably in 3-5 years.


Both men should make it big if not for...injuries. Orton's already had two big ones and Cena needs to try to land better when being eliminated from Royal Rumble matches.

I'll give them both their dues. First off, both of them are great live. But, who isn't(I'm looking at you, A-Train).

John Cena has the better mic skills. But, that should be odvious. Cena is also more entertaining. In character and style. They're both in shape, no doubt. But, I think I could take Orton...maybe not Cena. (okay, defently not Cena).

I see Cena's gimmick evolving in the next few years into something that the fans (mostly teens) can relate to as an equal. Orton will just continue evolving into an ass.

Wrestling skills are close to even. Neither is great, and neither often has the best match on the show (unless it's against RVD, HBK or Benoit). I don't see either man being labled as 'gretest technical wrestler'.

As, for Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin, of course these (among others) are the men that need pushed more. I mean, come on, they're great. But, that's just my thoughts.
Haas and Benjamin will see their days. I hope. Hell, if I can say the words Eddie Guerrero, WWE champion, I feel anything is possible.

Since we're talking Orton/Cena how about Batista. Is this guy bred for World championship superstardom or what. I think he's got it. His in ring skills are good for a musclehead and his ringwork is damn entertaining. He's a beast. Am, I just tripping here??? And, will Maven ever make it? Jindrak? Cade?


Oh, by the way, when your feeling down and out and are having a realy messed up day just remember, Eddie Guerrero is the WWE champion, and, it should make it all better.




(edited by headlock on 16.2.04 0048)


"If you put the letter 'S' in front of Hitman, you get my basic oppinion of Bret Hart!"-Steve Austin to Brian Pillman September 96 in regards to Bret Hart...and, no I'm not calling you stupid!
madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2352 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.66
Take note, anti-smarks...I never thought I'd see so much pro-Orton sentiment.

But I beg to differ. RIGHT NOW, John Cena is the #2 face on Smackdown. His ringwork is solid, and his persona has been evolving. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If any wrestler on the current roster could be the next Stone Cold Steve Austin, John Cena is that man. In fact, when the time comes to end Austin's career, I'd have John Cena put the man out with an F-U. Then he will have arrived.
Y2J 420
Italian
Banned








Since: 2.12.03
From: Illinois

Since last post: 3194 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.34
Cena has solid in-ring work? He's still so green...



"Win if you can, lose if you must, but in the end, always cheat..." - Jesse "the Body" Ventura
Phantom
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2431 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.41
    Originally posted by Y2J 420
    Cena has solid in-ring work? He's still so green...
He can sell, though, and get the crowd behind him. There are not too many top guys who can do that well, and it's really what made Rock and Foley so damned good to watch in the ring.
Planavoy
Bauerwurst








Since: 30.11.03

Since last post: 3885 days
Last activity: 3839 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.07
Cena is far better on the mic than Orton and is better right now (he is under no one`s wing in SD unlike Orton).
plus Cena hard working than Orton thus, i believe that he will improve his in ring abilities, and he is without a doubt the franchise of the wwe for years to come.
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 361 days
Last activity: 49 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
JOHN CENA vs. RANDY ORTON

John Cena [6'1", 240 lbs]
From Westbury, Mass.
Master of Thuganomics
Finisher: FU (Modified Death Valley Driver)

Randy Orton [6'4", 245 lbs]
From St. Louis, Missouri; son of "Cowboy" Bob Orton
Current WWE Intercontinental Champion
Member of Evolution
Finisher: RKO (Running Diamond Cutter)

MOVESET
I'll give the edge to Cena, barely. Neither guy has a lot of offense other than punchy/kicky stuff. Orton's RKO is tight...as long as the other guy knows it's coming. If Orton doesn't grab hold, both guys look silly. Cena's FU is better, so much as the other guy just has to fall down.

GIMMICK
Draw. Cena's rapping has made him marketable, but Orton's cocky asshole gimmick is golden. Heck, RNN made him a star.

LOOK
Draw. Both guys are in good shape, and have a good "look".

BRAND & SURROUNDINGS
Cena's a lone wolf, his only real ally being Chris Benoit...and he's on RAW now. On the other hand, Orton has good back-up in Evolution, a group basically set around to make each other look good. So far, it's working.

So...the fact is that both guys are basically equal. They have limited movesets, but their charisma's saving them from having to wrestle well. All it will take is one feud to make them look like stars...or chumps. Just ask Scott Steiner.



FLAMES: 30-20-5-3 for 68 points
LAST YEAR: 29-36-13-4 for 75 points
PACE: 43-30-6-3 for 96 points
theguzisthepooz
Pinkelwurst








Since: 16.2.04
From: Pomona, California, USA

Since last post: 3921 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.06
Cena's character is going to get bigger and bigger. he's just awesome. Orton is cool and all, but I can just see big things for Cena. one of the reasons being that he has a more "original" moveset: his "pumping" double axe handle, his F-U is an awesome lookin death valley driver, and his OK Rattle fist drop. Cena's the poo, but u never know. as they say anything can happen in the WWE.
Joe E. Nitro
Salami








Since: 4.2.04

Since last post: 3687 days
Last activity: 1168 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.82
I'll have to go with Orton, but it will be interesting to see how he does with his current character as a face. I've never really seen *it* in John Cena. I don't really think that his raps are so hot or his gimmick. That may just be me losing touch with 'you kids' today. Cena has come a long long ways from the generic kid with 1000 different homoerotic neon colored outfits, but so has Orton and with his stint as J.R.'s Blue Chipper. Yes, Randy Orton is my final answer, I'm not sure if he can ever be the figure head of the company, but he's got the most long term potential. I still think his best work to date was his RNN updates.

(edited by EastCoastJoe on 16.2.04 0645)
Wolfram J. Paulovich
Frankfurter








Since: 11.11.02
From: Fat City, Baby

Since last post: 3012 days
Last activity: 2383 days
AIM:  
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.62
    Originally posted by Y2J 420
    Cena has solid in-ring work? He's still so green...


Green! Ah, yes. Green. Who whiffed his own finisher on RAW within the last month? Who did that?

Please, I'd be delighted to learn.



The Obtuse Angle Archive.

"Och, ye speak like a poet. But ye punch like one, too!"
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 535 days
Last activity: 535 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
I'll take Cena, as the only time I've found Orton even mildly entertaining was the RNN updates. Funny, his best work was on taped bits, but he gets a big push, while Sean O'Haire's best work was on taped bits, and he gets sent to OVW. Perhaps Randy learned from the mistakes of his uncle.



FIRE LARRY LUCHINNO.
TheGreekPhysique
Bauerwurst








Since: 13.2.04
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 3112 days
Last activity: 2538 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
    Originally posted by theguzisthepooz
    his F-U is an awesome lookin death valley driver


Not a chance. That's the WORST DVD ever.

As far as the topic, IMO, John Cena was NOT pushed down our throats. Randy Orton WAS. Cena got over eventually after his gimmick change and then he started showing people that he was charismatic. Orton SUCKS on the mic UNLESS it's comedy, which he needs to do more of, as opposed to ATTEMPTING to be serious, which just makes me think of Stephanie promos.

Cena will be a big star of his own making, Orton will be the company-made star. If you tell people something enough times they'll end up believeing it (ask Foley), so that's how Orton's going to get over, unless he improves on his own.
Kodoshin
Medisterpoelse








Since: 16.2.04

Since last post: 3958 days
Last activity: 3907 days
#17 Posted on
I'd have to say Cena, I think he has at least a slight edge on Orton in all areas, but especially in terms of his ability to connect with a crowd.

It looks like Cena is about to get the U.S. title strapped on him, if he's well-groomed for the next 6-9 months I really think he'll be the next big main event star for years and years down the road.

Orton if he ever becomes a main event star, I dont see him getting much higher than an entry level main eventer, like the Big Show or Chris Jericho.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by GreekPhysique
      Originally posted by theguzisthepooz
      his F-U is an awesome lookin death valley driver


    Not a chance. That's the WORST DVD ever.

It's still better than Randy's "Wheeeeeee!" RKO. If he wants to be taken seriously as a ME player, he's got to make it look more "DDP-like".

I'll go with Cena. Both are still green in the ring. Orton's probably the better wrestler, but Cena is the better brawler, which really makes up most of the "WWE main event style".

Cena is light years ahead of Orton in mic skills and charisma, though, and that's what is really going to carry him far. Tell each guy to make up a promo on camera in the ring, and Cena could pull one out no problem, while Orton would look lost. Cena connects w/ the crowd, while Orton still hasn't shown he can do that. Cena took his gimmick, ran with it, and got insanely over, while Orton is struggling to get over. Cena just has the "it" factor that draws fans in, while I'm not seeing the same in Orton.

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    I'll take Cena, as the only time I've found Orton even mildly entertaining was the RNN updates

Exactly. They should have let him run w/ that gimmick a bit to get the fans into him, rather than stick him w/ the "legend kiler" schtick.



standback
Braunschweiger








Since: 14.2.04
From: maimi

Since last post: 3956 days
Last activity: 3943 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.59
john cena defenitly
Snookum
Kishke








Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 2694 days
Last activity: 2676 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.16
I've seen these guys work in OVW, so I've seen how they've developed over time.

I would have to go with Cena. Some may feel that the rap bit will die and he'll be without anything to do, but he has a LOT of versitality on the mic, judging from his OVW days. If he did get injured, he could still get over with the audience in much the same way as Angle did during his injury - on the mic.

I like Orton, but my gut tells me that he doesn't really have his heart set on wrestling even if it is a legacy for him. Cena is more driven than Orton, I feel.

As to Benjamin and Hass - they're both great, but they were never that good on the mic or projecting an image to this audience besides that of "sidekick" and that's is a major problem for them today.

In five years, I suspect we'll have Johnny Jeter from OVW in there for sure, and I think he'll be looked upon intremely well by then. He's certainly one of the best in OVW right now, I feel.
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I guess i should write shorter posts if i expect people to actually read them. to quote me,"the other show wouldn't be pure wrestling, but be more based around the wrestling than it currently is".
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