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The W - Pro Wrestling - Brock Lesnar is not a draw
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Michrome
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Since: 2.1.03

Since last post: 3743 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I never see anyone say this, but I've yet to see this guy draw in any major money on a PPV since Summerslam 2002, which most likely got most of its buys to see Shawn's return to the ring to face HHH, and just because, well, it's Summerslam. I think his HIAC did an ok buy against UT, but all HIAC PPVs seem to do good buys, even that horrid piece of crap Bad Blood. His big chase to the title and match with Angle at Wrestlemania did a horrible buy, Backlash did a horrible buy, as did Judgement Day and Vengeance. HIs big 1 hour marathon match with Angle did a mediocre rating at best, and the big buildup for his cage match with Vince drew no viewers. Is it time to stop forcing a guy who can't draw flies down our throats?



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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.93
No one in the WWE is a draw, from Hunter to Lesnar to Angle to Vince to Undertaker. Replacing Lesnar with someone else will draw the same amount of flies if not less. Er, more.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
Lesnar was drawing as the unstoppable heel machine with Paul Heyman but when they turned him into Happy Smiling Brock trying to chase the much smaller Kurt Angle, it didn't work.

When no one is drawing, would you rather keep going back to Undertaker and Hunter or give someone new like Brock the exposure? It's like a sports team that keeps going back to older big name free agents to try and win one more time, but it doesn't work. Now they sacrificed years where they could have been rebuilding.
Craigerson
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Since: 4.8.03
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
It always makes me chuckle when the reason someone doesn't like a wrestler, is because they aren't a draw. Personally I throw my support behind the guys/girls who entertain me the most. Brock may not get the PPV buys of the Austin Era, but you know what, The WWE is in another down cycle. Ratings, PPV Buys, attendance, are all down aren't they? Is it fair to blame that just on one person being a non-draw?
Amazing Telephone
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Since: 12.12.02
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.58
    Originally posted by Craigerson
    The WWE is in another down cycle. Ratings, PPV Buys, attendance, are all down aren't they? Is it fair to blame that just on one person being a non-draw?

If we're talking about Triple H, it is!



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Michrome
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Since: 2.1.03

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
No one's demanding the PPV buys of the Austin era, but the rapid drop in buys can not just be attributed to "another down period", people just aren't interested in certain guys. They have sacraficed pushing anybody new just to push Brock to the moon. Although recently they've been pushing Cena, which is good. People have already seen Lesnar-UT, Lesnar-Angle, Lesnar-Rock....they gave away all of the big matches way too fast, and the only way the guy is going to draw again is to switch him to Raw. Lesnar is just suffering Goldberg-itus: After the initial buzz and fan interest, there's no depth to the character that people are interested in.



Yep, I forgot the password to my original name.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.18
The rapid drop in buys ISN'T just because of another down period. It's because Vince bought the competition and made the most interesting part of his business boring within a week.

    Originally posted by Michromee
    People have already seen Lesnar-UT, Lesnar-Angle, Lesnar-Rock....they gave away all of the big matches way too fast


The PPVs aren't JUST Lesnar and another guy. They've got half the Smackdown roster (plus the RAW guys too if it's a joint PPV) that should be bringing people in just the same. Hell, the biggest period in wrestling buys was when WCW had an entire card of great shit month after month.

They've also done every combination of a number of top guys. We've seen Taker-Angle, Taker-Cena, etc. Giving away big matches without enough build is what they do now.

And Goldberg's big problem wasn't that people didn't like the character or that he had no depth to it. The problem is that his entire gimmick was that he was undefeated. Once they ended that, he lost his gimmick overnight and had to start building him again (which they tried as a heel, but since that sucked, we're now just starting over). Also see: Tatanka.


Tribal Prophet



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Crip
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Since: 1.3.03

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.82
    Originally posted by JMShapiro
    No one in the WWE is a draw, from Hunter to Lesnar to Angle to Vince to Undertaker. Replacing Lesnar with someone else will draw the same amount of flies if not less. Er, more.


I think thats totally correct, in reality I think there have only been a handful REAL draws. Guys like Hogan, Steve Austin (in their prime) and Rock have to my mind, been the only real draws. Everyone else is/was substitutable.



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Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21
    Originally posted by Michromee
    No one's demanding the PPV buys of the Austin era, but the rapid drop in buys can not just be attributed to "another down period", people just aren't interested in certain guys. They have sacraficed pushing anybody new just to push Brock to the moon. Although recently they've been pushing Cena, which is good. People have already seen Lesnar-UT, Lesnar-Angle, Lesnar-Rock....they gave away all of the big matches way too fast, and the only way the guy is going to draw again is to switch him to Raw. Lesnar is just suffering Goldberg-itus: After the initial buzz and fan interest, there's no depth to the character that people are interested in.


I'm inclined to agree with this. Why, in one year, does Brock win King of the Ring, beat everyone on the roster, win the world title twice, win the royal rumble, main event wrestlemania, be a top babyface and a top a heel, beat Hogan, 'Taker, and Rocky, and have eleven matches with Kurt Angle? Maybe they should have taken it easy with him, which is what I complained about them needing to do something like a year ago. There's no interesting combination you can do with Brock on top at this point, he's faced everyone. That's why he was feuding with the Big Show for forty-seven weeks in a row a while back. It's done.

And I don't want to see Kurt and Brock at Wrestlemania. All that does is send the same ridiculous message "Hey, we haven't developed a single new star this year." Benoit ain't much of a draw and never will be, but I say give him one run on top, let him win the Rumble (or, if not the Rumble let him get the title shot for his brand later) and have him beat Brock. What you do until then, I don't know, maybe have Brock work with Eddy and resume his feud with Zach Gowan. Bring back King Kong Bundy for one match. Anything but Brock repeating last year's opponents.






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fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
I'd do an old school build for Brock Lesnar and Eddy Guerrero culminating at WrestleMania. Guerrero gets his shot at Survivor Series but gets screwed (Chavo?) out of the title. Now Vince and Brock deny any rematch. There's also no Smackdown PPV in December. Eddy wins the Royal Rumble to get his shot at WrestleMania.

Totally build around Guerrero's REAL inspirational story. Hell team up with one of those do-gooder groups and have Guerrero speaking to Latino youth about his struggles and overcoming them. Then at WrestleMania you have Guerrero defy the odds and take the WWE Championship. The first hispanic champion since Pedro Morales.

It's something fresh, it's something real, and the window of opportunity will close and close hard if they do nothing.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.48
"Totally build around Guerrero's REAL inspirational story. Hell team up with one of those do-gooder groups and have Guerrero speaking to Latino youth about his struggles and overcoming them. Then at WrestleMania you have Guerrero defy the odds and take the WWE Championship. The first hispanic champion since Pedro Morales."

Sorry, but that's a terrible idea. Eddie's so over right now due to being a weasely, sneaky SOB that makes no excuses about it. Turn him into a glowing 80s throwback babyface and you're just turning off the heat. I agree with you that they should gamble on Guerrero, just not in this fashion. Have him beat Brocky for the belt at SS, even if it's just a short caretaker reign to test the waters. When the roof blows off the place on the following SmackDown, they'll know what they've got.





And Lo, The Urine Shall Flow Freely In The Aisles, As Small Children And Frail Old Ladies Flee Before The Brutality, The Might, The Sheer Viciousness...Of ~EVIL COACH~!

TheItalianJob
Tocino








Since: 4.10.03

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#12 Posted on
Goldberg has got no depth? wait 'till the pitch him against a pushed Kane and the burates skrocket. As far as Brock is concerned, he's got talent but he ain't that pure athlete WWe wants us to think. the only problem with him not drawing is the simple fact that he was first pushed as a tough motherfucker and then, when he was starting to resemble a credible world champion, Vince went the usual route and used the new and fresh guy to put over the old and untalented Big Show. at that point no one believed much in Big Show since he was just a glorified midcarder the likes of Meng back in WCW. sacrificing Brock for the cause was stupid.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3172 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
I never said Guerrero needs to stop cheating or being sneaky. He should tone it down a little because it's getting to the point where he can't beat Matt Hardy without cheating excessively? The stuff I mentioned about him going to Latino communities would be great mainstream publicity for him. The Latino community needs a hero and Guerrero's the perfect fit because he's over with everyone. It's also the best demographic for wrestling, the most loyal of all wrestling fans and the biggest minority in the US. A Lucha show in Atlanta just drew 3,000 people which is more then WWE draws for some house shows.

They should hold off the title win until Mania because that's where the most people will see it, it'll be the most important and make Guerrero into a full fledged Main Event star.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.48
Unfortunately (and this is by no means MY opinion), trying to push a guy whose credo is "Cheat To Win" as a role model and firgurehead for the Latino community could easily be construed as stereotyping and racism. I reallyt hink it's just best to continue with the path he's currently on-I don't really think there's any need to play the "Latino Superstar" card any more than it already has been.

Still, if it gets Eddie main-eventing, then I could be for it.



And Lo, The Urine Shall Flow Freely In The Aisles, As Small Children And Frail Old Ladies Flee Before The Brutality, The Might, The Sheer Viciousness...Of ~EVIL COACH~!

It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 4 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
At this point, it makes no sense to really call ANYBODY a draw. Wrestling's still in a downward spiral and it'll take more than one standout wrestler to bring it upwards again. It needs a total kickass angle.

But let's not hold our collective breath with THIS writing staff.

So then WWE may as well push new people to the top. It's time to throw new people against the wall to see if anyone might stick. Eddie could easily bring in the Latino demographic as long as they stay away from those horrific Mexican stereotypes.

But let's not depush Brock, though. He could still draw if they keep pushing him as the "Ivan Drago" badass.




LS: Alright, we hardly gotten any airtime and we still aren't over. Anymore ideas?
GD: Can you stare at your hand and spin on your head? Or better yet, we can have you shilling HUNGRY MAN DINNERS!
LS: That...is very disturbing.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.24
I'll get ripped a bit for this one, but at similar points in their respective careers Lex Luger was far better than Brock Lesnar. Despite becoming a piece of camel dung once the 90's began, Luger at this stage in his career was having great matches against Flair, Steamboat and Windham. True, he had great people working with him, but he still was able to keep up.
Instead of developing Lesnar as Kurt Angle with power, they built him up as Hogan-Lite. Each time Vince has tried to recreate Hogan (Warrior, Luger, Sid, Lesnar), its failed. If they had allowed Lesnar to develop naturally instead of via a hard push, he might have been better as a long term draw. Instead, the only match on SD that Lesnar hasn't had yet is against Benoit (which, if your going to develop Lesnar as a wrestler, is a sin as Benoit could have helped him develop).



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darkmatcher
Bockwurst








Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.37
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    I'll get ripped a bit for this one, but at similar points in their respective careers Lex Luger was far better than Brock Lesnar. Despite becoming a piece of camel dung once the 90's began, Luger at this stage in his career was having great matches against Flair, Steamboat and Windham. True, he had great people working with him, but he still was able to keep up.
    Instead of developing Lesnar as Kurt Angle with power, they built him up as Hogan-Lite. Each time Vince has tried to recreate Hogan (Warrior, Luger, Sid, Lesnar), its failed. If they had allowed Lesnar to develop naturally instead of via a hard push, he might have been better as a long term draw. Instead, the only match on SD that Lesnar hasn't had yet is against Benoit (which, if your going to develop Lesnar as a wrestler, is a sin as Benoit could have helped him develop).


Agreed. Especially considering the fact that those guys had to wait a much longer time than Lesnar before winning a title, I believe Lesnar could end up being the biggest "monster push" failure to date(ok maybe behind Luger). I mean, with all he's already accomplished so soon, what'll be left 5-10 years from now? Brock's no Hogan or Flair(both of whom had much longer build-ups), I just doubt he could stay atop for too long.
I honestly don't understand why the internet holds such a grudge against the Sids, Lugers, Diesels and Warriors but are so willing to accept Lesnar. Maybe Lesnar will be a future IWC target. I don't know, but he's sure done very little for me so far, draw or not.



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Spaceman Spiff
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    I honestly don't understand why the internet holds such a grudge against the Sids, Lugers, Diesels and Warriors but are so willing to accept Lesnar.

Maybe because Lesnar's a better wrestler?

EDIT: Oh, Diesel had a big hand in killing WCW. That wasn't very nice of him.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 5.10.03 2306)


TheItalianJob
Tocino








Since: 4.10.03

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
I agree with the Luger stuff, but keep in mind that Brock can go in the ring at this point in his career. He's been burned just a little since he got the title without much of a chase to entice fans.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.19
Yeah, Brock's an impressive looking guy, and he can have (and has had) great matches with most of the guys on the roster. The problem that everyone here is overlooking is that the WWE DOESN'T want him to have a long, successful career. If he does, then great, but it's by no means a goal or even a concern of theirs. All they want is a quick fix to get people watching again, and if takes sacrificing the guy's career and their own long-term success just to throw a big musclemonster out there against all the top guys and hope that some feud excites some people, then they'll do it.

I don't really agree with this philosophy, because it's just too risky (if it doesn't work, then you've wasted a great talent like Lesnar for nothing) but don't forget that the WWE's and our ideas on how to book yourself out of a slump are VERY different.


Tribal Prophet



Wrestling exists in the eternal present. What is, has always been, and when it no longer is, it never was. It has no past and no future, and sometimes even today is in question. - Madame Manga

Click Here (welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)
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