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The W - Current Events & Politics - Thoughts on Electronic Voting
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DrOp
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Since: 2.1.02

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
1. I was not asked to furnish any identification. I gave my name, they gave me my card. Scary. I *swear* 4 years ago they asked to see my Driver's License.

2. The machine was fairly easy to use. I do wonder why they highlight your choices with a large RED X instead of a green CHECK?

Creates congitive dissonance, I think. X = no. Check = yes. right?


Anyone else already voted and have feedback on the new systems?



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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1086 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by DrOp
    2. The machine was fairly easy to use. I do wonder why they highlight your choices with a large RED X instead of a green CHECK?
That's what we get for Glendenning's $55 million purchase...

Incidentally, they worked fine as far as I am aware of from the primary, but I will be interested in casting my write-in votes using the electronic system.



CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.02
    Originally posted by DrOp
    1. I was not asked to furnish any identification. I gave my name, they gave me my card. Scary. I *swear* 4 years ago they asked to see my Driver's License.
Non-first timers ususally don't have to provide anything...I wouldn't be too alarmed.



CRZ
GRL
Frankfurter








Since: 13.7.02
From: Austin

Since last post: 19 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.07
I was more put off by the lack of any clear privacy in my polling location. Just a row of electronic machines next to each other, no curtain, no booth, nothing.

I also was not asked for ID, and this is the first time I've voted in Maryland, so I half expected to be asked for >something<.





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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 10 hours
Last activity: 15 min.
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by DrOp
      1. I was not asked to furnish any identification. I gave my name, they gave me my card. Scary. I *swear* 4 years ago they asked to see my Driver's License.
    Non-first timers ususally don't have to provide anything...I wouldn't be too alarmed.


    Originally posted by ChiTrib
    spokesman for the Chicago Board of Elections said voters typically need only to sign in to verify their registration. But if they mailed in their registration using a National Voter Registration Act form, they must show identification or a Board of Elections letter confirming registration the first time they vote, he said.


That may not be nationally true, but backs up what he just said.



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Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
I used the pen and ballot system - last election I had an electronic Diebold system and I just wasn't comfortable with the setup.

With the pen, all I had to do was fill in an oval completely. There is no chance that my vote was filled in wrong, or that a computer glitch would lose it. It could also be recounted.

On the Diebold system, you have no idea if the vote counted or not. You just know that the GUI displayed a message that it was.

As a software designer, I know it's pretty easy to have a system that everyone thinks is working perfectly, only to get garbage results. You'd have to try pretty hard to get garbage data off of the pen and paper system I used today.

Stick with the paper!



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Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.04
I like this method as well. It's been used in Fresno County since I became eligible to vote (2000). Before I think they used the punch-ballots.



Pool-Boy
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Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
I have voted in 10 elections, and I don't recall ever having to present photo ID. This one included....

The touch screen was interesting - far better than the E-Slate things I used in March. Write-ins were pretty easy, though "typing" on the touch screen proved to be something of a chore.

I would just assume go back to the punch ballot. It worked fine, and electronic voting just seems to be causing more problems than they are worth...



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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
Well, this was my first time voting in Missouri. They asked for my registration card and photo ID.

And, we had the good old punch ballot.

Yes, I made sure none of my chads were dangling.
Wolfram J. Paulovich
Frankfurter








Since: 11.11.02
From: Fat City, Baby

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.27
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I used the pen and ballot system - last election I had an electronic Diebold system and I just wasn't comfortable with the setup.

    With the pen, all I had to do was fill in an oval completely. There is no chance that my vote was filled in wrong, or that a computer glitch would lose it. It could also be recounted.

    On the Diebold system, you have no idea if the vote counted or not. You just know that the GUI displayed a message that it was.

    As a software designer, I know it's pretty easy to have a system that everyone thinks is working perfectly, only to get garbage results. You'd have to try pretty hard to get garbage data off of the pen and paper system I used today.

    Stick with the paper!


I'm with you. I filled out an absentee ballot for the reasons you stated above. Also, I was flipping through Harper's in July and spied this little nugget in the Harper's Index:


    Seconds it took a Maryland consultant last winter to pick a Diebold voting machine's lock and remove its memory card : 10


I'm not one who easily believes in conspiracies, but that tidbit sent me reading more about the various electronic voting machines and not liking them one bit.



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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
The EFF is reporting that there may be problems with voting machines in at least six states.

http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2004_11.php#002062

I'm sure this is just the beginning...



Willful ignorance of science is not commendable. Refusing to learn the difference between a credible source and a shill is criminally stupid.
Nag
Landjager








Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.92
I'm really surprised the amount of people who have to show photo ID. There was quite the stir here in Ohio when they suggested it here a few months back.

Being my first election, I was kinda surprised how LITTLE ID you need, none. Basically a fresh signature, next to a photocopied signature, which was verified by this lady getting on the bad side of 90.

Far as electronic voting, don't trust it all. If it don't leave a paper trail, I don't trust it.

Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
All I was asked was my name. They didn't ask for any ID, birthday, social security number, nor address.

I hope there isn't a rash of double voting by identity thefts and that my experience was an isolated one.

EDIT: I did have to sign my name twice though. Once when I gave my name (which had my address and DOB next to it, so I guess it was too late to ask me because it was RIGHT THERE.), and a second time when I got my access card for the voting booth.

(edited by Zeruel on 2.11.04 1840)



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vsp
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2850 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
My county still uses punchcard ballots. That's how I like it.

Half the people I watch using the touchscreen terminals at my local library have problems, fat fingers hitting the wrong space being the usual culprit. I haven't much reason to believe that those who couldn't figure out the butterfly ballot would have an easier time with modern technology.




Back in 2000 a Republican friend warned me that if I voted for Al Gore and he won, the stock market would tank, we'd lose millions of jobs, and our military would be totally overstretched. You know what? I did vote for Gore, he did win, and I'll be damned if all those things didn't come true!"
-- James Carville
Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.34
I gotta say, I prefer the punch ballot as well, but the electronic voting went faster then the punching. The line at my precinct was moving rather quickly with only 12 boxes to use.

As for needing to identify yourself with a picture ID or something, I think it's drasticly needed here in Florida. Somehow, they have six people registered to vote with my exact name AND living at my address, unly with six different birth dates. These are what the 80 year old lady with glasses thicker then a baseball showed me.

Robert James Gonzalez - 10 - 15 - 82
Robert James Gonzalez - 10 - 15 - 72
Robert James Gonzalez - 10 - 15 - 62
Robert James Gonzalez - 10 - 15 - 52
Robert James Gonzalez - 10 - 15 - 42
Robert James Gonzalez - 10 - 15 - 32

...all with the same address. I probably wouldn't make all that big a stink about it, but the woman didn't ask for any identification from me. All she wanted was my name, address, and date of birth, then I signed my name next the the correct listing with my correct birthdate.

If it comes up that Robert Gonzalez voted once for Kerry and five times for Bush, I'm gonna be mad as all get out. When I asked the woman to scratch off the other Roberts, she told me she wasn't allowed to. She also asked me if I was sure that there were not any other Roberts at the same address, which had to be the fucking stupidest thing I heard all day.

I grabbed one of the reply cards to send in, like I do every year, and I was going to tell the lady out front about it as well. There was a woman seated at a table with a sign saying that if there were any problems we had with voting, then we should notify her. When I told her, she said it wasn't a minority issue and that she couldn't do anything about my problem.

You know, Canada is looking better and better every year.



Cerebus: RIP 1977-2004.

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rinberg
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Since: 30.1.02
From: South Georgia

Since last post: 835 days
Last activity: 83 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.19
At my polling place in rural South GA, we were asked to present our driver's license which they used to fill out a couple of lines on a slip of paper. I carried the slip of paper to another desk where they had a printout of the registered voters. They looked up my name, put a mark next to it and added district info to the slip. The next person took this slip and punched the district code into a card programmer so that the correct ballot could be uploaded to the E-card that they handed me. I put the E-card into the touchscreen 'puter and made my selections. When I was done, the 'puter asked me to review the ballot that I had filled out. When I pushed the 'OK' button, it thanked me and ejected the E-card. I dropped it off in a small box presumably to be used again and was done.

I don't like any of the current polling systems, but this was at least easy. (for me....) I have to agree with the Association of Computing Machinery's statement on E-voting:


    Originally posted by ACM

    Virtually all voting systems in use today (punch-cards, lever machines, hand counted paper ballots, etc.) are subject to fraud and error, including electronic voting systems, which are not without their own risks and vulnerabilities. In particular, many electronic voting systems have been evaluated by independent, generally-recognized experts and have been found to be poorly designed; developed using inferior software engineering processes; designed without (or with very limited) external audit capabilities; intended for operation without obvious protective measures; and deployed without rigorous, scientifically-designed testing.

    To protect the accuracy and impartiality of the electoral process, ACM recommends that all voting systems particularly computer-based electronic voting systems embody careful engineering, strong safeguards, and rigorous testing in both their design and operation. In addition, voting systems should enable each voter to inspect a physical (e.g., paper) record to verify that his or her vote has been accurately cast and to serve as an independent check on the result produced and stored by the system. Making those records permanent (i.e., not based solely in computer memory) provides a means by which an accurate recount may be conducted. Ensuring the reliability, security, and verifiability of public elections is fundamental to a stable democracy. Convenience and speed of vote counting are no substitute for accuracy of results and trust in the process by the electorate.



I have listened to one of the manufacturers of the E-voting machines try to defend paperless voting on NPR, but I just don't buy it. I'm with Guru. I know how easy it is to make the GUI say one thing and the backend do another. I think the lack of a physical audit trail is appalling. I would feel alot better if I knew that each vote was printed and stored for say a year or six months after every election so that we could have greater accountability.



The question of whether computers can think is like the question of whether submarines can swim.
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Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 16 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.07
I don't understand why it's so hard to get a receipt? They should print one out for you, and one out for the polling station. Apparently the people who make E-Voting machines are the same people who refuse to backup their files.

-Jag



"During his term in office, George Bush has relentlessly continued to be presidentdespite the clear benefits to America his absence would bring to the lives of citizens everywhere."

Here's to another four years...
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Ding! We have a winner. You don't have to travel far outside of Philadelphia to find yourself in some _very_ scary towns, particularly if you are or appear to be a member of any given minority group. Ditto for neighboring Maryland.
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