The W
Views: 97877577
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
1.8.14 1114
The W - Pro Wrestling - This clip cements my lack of faith in TNA succeeding (Page 2)
This thread has 2 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Thread rated: 4.66
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next
(1751 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (41 total)
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 52 min.
#21 Posted on
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Why is she threatening the "other members of creative" for what the fans chant about Russo? Is she saying they're starting the chants?


The way I understood it, she was saying that other writers were being lazy and throwing stupid shit at the wall to see what would stick -- knowing that if it indeed sucked, it would be Russo the fans would blame. No accountability is a bad thing. So by saying "hey, if one of your segments sucks so much that the fans chant FIRE RUSSO, it ain't Russo I'm gonna fire because it's not his segment," she was providing some hard-core accountability.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.33
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Yes, because when TNA started, it was already on TV and had a following of over a million people. As much as people love bashing TNA and Russo, he did improve the product to the point it is now on TV and getting a good rating for that network.


I don't think Russo came back until after they got SpikeTV and then felt they needed his expertise.
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 31 min.
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.75
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
      Originally posted by lotjx
      TNA has pushed young stars like AJ and Joe, same ratings. They pushed older guys, same ratings if not worse ratings. They got big named free agents, a ratings pop then the same ratings. They have pushed the KO, Tag and X-Division, same ratings. They push the singles main event, same ratings. They have done year long story lines, to a small ratings increase with MEM and a giant disaster with Immortal. They have done once a month storylines, same ratings.


    First of all, the notion that WCW would have folded and not found a viable owner/TV deal had it not spectacularly tanked itself is stunning in its lack of logic. Beyond that, the paragraph above betrays a wilful ignorance about the quality of TNA's writing and booking. AJ and Joe have been pushed piecemeal and with no regularity or character definition. AJ has gone from goofball heel to underdog face to super-athlete company standard bearer to arrogant Ric Flair protege to whatever the Hell he is now. Joe went from unstoppable machine to Kevin Nash's "give me money" apprentice to knife-wielding savage to Tazz's protege to MEM stooge to man living in a cardboard box to aimless wanderer of the midcard. The KO, tag and X divisions have yoyoed in importance and exposure on a month-by-month basis for their entire history. The MEM and Immortal are not "year-long storylines". They started out vague, got vaguer, lost all direction and fell apart. For all its faults, the Invasion angle was booked more linearly than almost any big TNA angle I can think of. It had a beginning, a middle and an end. Where was that with MEM? They formed. They feuded with the Frontline. Then Sting kinda dissented. Foley opposed them, then turned heel. Then Matt Morgan wanted to join. Then Samoa Joe beat them up. Then he joined them. Then it just kinda disappeared one day.

    There is no constistency to TNA's writing, no longterm plan, nothing for fans to invest in and come back to week after week. So it was, so it shall always be. Who is responsible for this? Whose style matches this continually shifting and restarting and unstable lack of direction? Could it be...Vince Russo? SHOCKING SWERVE.

    And by the way, I'd take WWE circa 2000 over Russo's '98-99 any day of the week.


Where would WCW go even if they were successful? CMT was not ready to make the room for Spike, they had their eyes set on Raw and had ECW. Who else was going to take in 2001 when the popularity was heading downwards, a wrestling company with that much payroll? No one. WCW was dead when Eric opened up the checkbook and it was only a matter of time before it collapsed. Even still, AOL/Time had the rights anyway, so it didn't matter what WCW did even if they turned a profit once AOL wanted to be the uptight network, they were going to sell it.

AJ is the longest running TNA champ as well as multi-time champion, so how is that piecemeal? The ratings were ok when he was champ, but it wasn't much of a change. I love AJ and Joe, but the reality of the situation is they are not the saviors of TNA. TNA has done just about everything and it has lead to them being where they are today. Even if you booked the hell out of the show and fired almost everyone expect the IWC favorites, it isn't going to matter. You have to research your customers and possible future customers to see what they want. Its something Spike should actually do for them to see what if there is a common thread that new and old fans are attracted to. And those fans aren't 10 people on wrestling message boards, its the people who actually spend on the product or at least show up to the event.



CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 10 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.82
Is there some way I could get you two to ignore each other?



graves9
Landjager








Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 16 hours
#25 Posted on
Good lord. loljx, They were on Spike for a year before Russo came back. They've been drawing the same 1.5 viewers since '07. Once in awhile they pop a rating and get around two million people and they go right back down because they don't like what they see. They have gone from drawing an average of twenty six thousand buys per PPV four years ago to an average of seventeen thousand. That is enough of a drop to get anyone fired, but Dixie is either too dumb or stubborn or both to fire him.

(edited by graves9 on 18.2.11 1505)

(edited by graves9 on 18.2.11 1548)

(edited by graves9 on 18.2.11 1553)

http://defendingthecore.blogspot.com/ http://morehardball.blogspot.com/
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 31 min.
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.75
    Originally posted by graves9
    Good lord.loltx, They were on Spike for a year before Russo came back. They've been drawing the same 1.5 viewers since '07. Once in awhile they pop a rating and get around two million people and they go right back down because they don't like what they see. They have gone from drawing an average of twenty six thousand buys per PPV four years ago to an average of seventeen thousand. That is enough of a drop to get anyone fired, but Dixie is either too dumb or stubborn or both to fire him.

    (edited by graves9 on 18.2.11 1505)


They can fire Russo and I don't see it making a difference. The IWC will be happy for about a week and thats about it. Most of the fans at home, don't give a shit about the writing. They have seen a lot of garbage on TNA and sat through it. Wrestling has been in the shitter for almost seven years now. Wrestling needs another surge like it did in the 90s. And I don't see it happening.

Even Rock, couldn't get Raw over a 3.5, the show actually did a 3.1 heading into a PPV during the heart of Mania. My point which I guess I lost through my own fault is that nothing Dixie does now will matter. Vince has the ace of Rock who we may or may not see til Mania in his pocket as well as Taker and HHH to pop the ratings. Yet, after Mania what then? Rock and HHH maybe gone, Taker is broken down and no one seems to give a shit about the current roster. I think Austin on Tough Enough will help, but for only a few weeks. If Rock stuck around and helped get people over then it might help. Yet, I don't see it happening. Raw will continue to be in the mid 3.0s like they have been in the last three years and continue to watch their PPV buys go down another 10% which happened this year. So, maybe if they fire another writer like Steph it will go up, but I doubt it.

There needs to be something new to attract the audience and what that is I don't know. All I know is that if TNA and is ok with the ratings they had then why fire anyone just appease a small fanbase who is going to trash them no matter what or sit there no matter what.
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 33 days
Last activity: 33 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26


I just watched that clip. The response of the guy sitting next to Dixie conducting the YouShoot appalled me more than the gibberish Dixie spouted.

"Okay. Very good."

In what universe was Dixie's response very good? Or any good? How do you not ask a follow up question or let Dixie get away with her meandering babbling? As far as I could tell from what Dixie actually said, the only only answer she actually gave to Jim Cornette's question is "He's very creative."

This begs follow up questions. In what way? Name three instances where your faith in his creative abilities were rewarded? Give tangible examples, from a creative standpoint or a business standpoint?

Opportunity thoroughly wasted.



@BackoftheHead






www.backofthehead.com
graves9
Landjager








Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 16 hours
#28 Posted on
    Originally posted by lotjx
      Originally posted by graves9
      Good lord.loltx, They were on Spike for a year before Russo came back. They've been drawing the same 1.5 viewers since '07. Once in awhile they pop a rating and get around two million people and they go right back down because they don't like what they see. They have gone from drawing an average of twenty six thousand buys per PPV four years ago to an average of seventeen thousand. That is enough of a drop to get anyone fired, but Dixie is either too dumb or stubborn or both to fire him.

      (edited by graves9 on 18.2.11 1505)


    They can fire Russo and I don't see it making a difference. The IWC will be happy for about a week and thats about it. Most of the fans at home, don't give a shit about the writing. They have seen a lot of garbage on TNA and sat through it. Wrestling has been in the shitter for almost seven years now. Wrestling needs another surge like it did in the 90s. And I don't see it happening.

    Even Rock, couldn't get Raw over a 3.5, the show actually did a 3.1 heading into a PPV during the heart of Mania. My point which I guess I lost through my own fault is that nothing Dixie does now will matter. Vince has the ace of Rock who we may or may not see til Mania in his pocket as well as Taker and HHH to pop the ratings. Yet, after Mania what then? Rock and HHH maybe gone, Taker is broken down and no one seems to give a shit about the current roster. I think Austin on Tough Enough will help, but for only a few weeks. If Rock stuck around and helped get people over then it might help. Yet, I don't see it happening. Raw will continue to be in the mid 3.0s like they have been in the last three years and continue to watch their PPV buys go down another 10% which happened this year. So, maybe if they fire another writer like Steph it will go up, but I doubt it.

    There needs to be something new to attract the audience and what that is I don't know. All I know is that if TNA and is ok with the ratings they had then why fire anyone just appease a small fan base who is going to trash them no matter what or sit there no matter what.
They can fire him and anyone would be a upgrade. They need to build up the young guys. They can draw in more viewers with higher quality shows. The WWE put on better shows than WCW for over a year before beating them in the ratings. TNA putting on better shows and creating new stars will grow an audience eventually. You know staying with the status quo sure hasn't worked.



http://defendingthecore.blogspot.com/ http://morehardball.blogspot.com/
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
    Originally posted by graves9
    You know staying with the status quo sure hasn't worked.


As a casual TN viewer and reader of drama, how much status quo have they've had in the past few years? My notion of TNA is a patchwork of months-long packets of angles and roster movements. There seems to be little stability or extension of angles. The best exception I can think of was Angle's self-imposed gauntlet which faded before it could get to the ending. Would the ECW reunion count? I dunno. As soon as they were welcomed into TNA, everyone vanished by the week.

That's what a lot of TNA feels like to me: quick-burning notions and half-assed angles. I can't tell if that's because of a constantly shifting roster or if the constant movement is a reaction the lack of commitment to angles.

If Russo's been the head writer for the past few years, it seems his Crash TV cultivation of chaos hasn't done anything to expand a viewer base.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
TNA will go out of business before it turns around and becomes a viable wrestling company.

I used to think that maybe if they cleaned house and brought Heyman in to lead the creative team that they could make something happen, but why even bother. You would be better off just starting a new company. The TNA brand is associated with a lot of different things, but putting out quality wrestling shows is not one of them.

John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 33 days
Last activity: 33 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    TNA will go out of business before it turns around and becomes a viable wrestling company.

    You would be better off just starting a new company. The TNA brand is associated with a lot of different things, but putting out quality wrestling shows is not one of them.


This, I believe, is the crux of the matter. TNA as a brand is toxic. Yes, they've been in business for nearly a decade against all odds (pun unintended), so that's something. But besides the triumph of merely existing, Total Nonstop Action is not respected within the wrestling business and virtually unknown outside of it.

What is TNA? Ask a wrestling fan and you're likely to get a derisive answer. Ask someone in the business, probably the same. Ask anyone not a wrestling fan and they'll say "tits and ass."

I really thought Hogan would help turn that around on his name value alone when he joined, but boy, was that a fantasy. Too many factors, within the business, the culture at large, and within the company itself, are proving an insurmountable obstacle to TNA becoming anything more than it currently is.

(edited by John Orquiola on 18.2.11 1438)

@BackoftheHead






www.backofthehead.com
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 17 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.05
    Originally posted by John Orquiola


    I just watched that clip. The response of the guy sitting next to Dixie conducting the YouShoot appalled me more than the gibberish Dixie spouted.

    "Okay. Very good."

    In what universe was Dixie's response very good?

    Opportunity thoroughly wasted.


If I remember this right, part of the deal of getting Dixie to this was playing very nice with her. Like no tough followups, and TNA approving all questions before hand. They're putting on a show, they're not looking for hard truths.



thecubsfan.com - luchablog
PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1096 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    TNA will go out of business before it turns around and becomes a viable wrestling company.

    I used to think that maybe if they cleaned house and brought Heyman in to lead the creative team that they could make something happen, but why even bother. You would be better off just starting a new company. The TNA brand is associated with a lot of different things, but putting out quality wrestling shows is not one of them.




Agreed on all counts. They should have changed the name of the company years ago.

(edited by PaulKTF on 18.2.11 1702)
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 396 days
Last activity: 396 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.84
What Dixie needs to realize is that no matter how much she defends him Russo is toxic in the eyes of most fans. Now, if he somehow finds an idea that revolutionizes the business, Dixie will look like a genius. Until then, all she is doing is backing someone who hasn't accomplished much in the last dozen years.
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.75
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    What Dixie needs to realize is that no matter how much she defends him Russo is toxic in the eyes of most fans. Now, if he somehow finds an idea that revolutionizes the business, Dixie will look like a genius. Until then, all she is doing is backing someone who hasn't accomplished much in the last dozen years.


I would be willing to wager that the vast majority of fans have no clue who Vince Russo is.
PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

Since last post: 1096 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by InVerse
      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      What Dixie needs to realize is that no matter how much she defends him Russo is toxic in the eyes of most fans. Now, if he somehow finds an idea that revolutionizes the business, Dixie will look like a genius. Until then, all she is doing is backing someone who hasn't accomplished much in the last dozen years.


    I would be willing to wager that the vast majority of fans have no clue who Vince Russo is.


That's probably true, but they know his booking style very well by this point if they're fans who have watched for any period of time.
Above Average 1
Salami








Since: 27.4.03
From: Nova Scotia Canada

Since last post: 115 days
Last activity: 1 day
#37 Posted on
I've read the entire thread and there were a lot of good points, as well as bad points made. Just firing Russo isn't the answer, Russo knows how to start a story after that he needs a filter, somebody to say that's dumb. Russo with McMahon as his boss worked.

The problem I have with TNA booking is that they get a hot angle or a wrestler that gets over and they blow it. They need to let things develop. TNA has a built in fan base they need to use it. Remember Stone Cold and The Rock started out in WWF/WWE as The Ringmaster and Rocky Maivia Respectively. They were able to develop and become huge stars, and in my opinion that what TNA needs to do. They need to allow their guys time to develop. They have an audience that obviously will put up with a lot, so take advantage of that and start developing characters and stop hot-shoting angles.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.54
    Originally posted by PaulKTF
      Originally posted by InVerse
        Originally posted by redsoxnation
        What Dixie needs to realize is that no matter how much she defends him Russo is toxic in the eyes of most fans. Now, if he somehow finds an idea that revolutionizes the business, Dixie will look like a genius. Until then, all she is doing is backing someone who hasn't accomplished much in the last dozen years.


      I would be willing to wager that the vast majority of fans have no clue who Vince Russo is.


    That's probably true, but they know his booking style very well by this point if they're fans who have watched for any period of time.


I don't think this is in any way true. TNA is meaningless to everything other than hardcore pro wrestling fans, virtually of whom know very well who Vince Russo is. Orquiola's post hit the nail right on the head --- TNA is a fatally damaged brand. They're the LA Clippers. Once in a while they'll get a Blake Griffin or a Danny Manning, but they have no idea how to capitalize on it.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 378 days
Last activity: 107 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
Another problem is that I think Dixie allows herself to be manipulated by her staff. Jarrett convinces her that the fans want 8 segments of him and Karen Angle per show, Hogan convinces her that he is viable in 2011, Bischoff convinces her that they need a new ring, Russo convinces her that they need to have reverse battle royals.

As much as I don't like McMahon, he has it right. He is the boss. His writers give him ideas, but ultimately he decides what the company does. Or at least he used to. Now I think it is more Stephanie, which I think is a big part of the current product being weaker.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 27 min.
AIM:  
Y!:
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.72
I winced when she threw Dutch Mantell under the bus (a friend of Jimmy Cornette) when he's by all accounts been a fantastic booker who seemed to get just about everybody happy and productive.

I wish my dad was rich.... I'd hire Heyman.

(edited by StaggerLee on 19.2.11 2236)
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next
Thread rated: 4.66
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next
Thread ahead: Elimination Chamber Prediction Thread
Next thread: > you beloved SMACKDOWN WORKRATE COMIX for 2/18/2011!!
Previous thread: SmackDown #600 2-18-11
(1751 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Triple H = NWO Hogan? I'd say that's a fair assessment, especially in that people got fed up with NWO Hogan and turned off WCW in droves about five years ago the same way people did with Raw when creative didn't realize how overexposed Hunter was.
- BigVitoMark, Triple H: The New Goldberg? (2003)
Related threads: TNA House show in Manchester, England 28/1 - Your WrestleCrap 2010 Gooker Winner- The New Monday Night Wars! - Alex Shelley out with a broken collarbone - More...
The W - Pro Wrestling - This clip cements my lack of faith in TNA succeeding (Page 2)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.389 seconds.