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22.9.14 2135
The W - Pro Wrestling - There Goes The Pain? (Page 3)
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dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 2 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.58
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Its sorta stupid if all he is going to do is job to just put the WWE over. I can't see UFC taking him back after that.
The only things that'll matter as far as Brock going back to the UFC goes are "is he healthy enough?" and "does he want to?". His record in professional wrestling matches will not be a factor.
CHAPLOW
Morcilla








Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 97 days
Last activity: 97 days
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.34
    Originally posted by Mike Zeidler
    I honestly think Taker respects MMA enough to talk Vince into letting Brock end the streak/retire him.


What is Brock, the living embodiment of MMA? The only reason he's in WWE now is cause he got demolished in the UFC.
I hope Undertaker retires undefeated, but he's probably going to lose the streak to Cena- THE TRUE HERO OF THE UNIVERSE.


TheOldMan; it's about context, though. I think Punk and Lesnar would be able to have a great feud and it would be something different than two big idiots that break things hitting each other.


I doubt Brock actually has any heat with Cena, that's ridiculous. The only people that might have heat with Cena is WWE creative and/or Vince which is why they had him break his arm the following Monday.






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JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.73
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    I can especially see Vince McMahon visualizing Sheamus/Lesnar in a clubberfest instead of Punk/Brock in a "who the fvck is going to believe the skinny wrestling hobo is going to last 5 minutes against Lesnar" money match.


I don't know that Punk/Lesnar would be a very good visual. Lesnar had good matches with Benoit, but Benoit worked like he was 6'2 and he was 6'2-wide with muscle. Punk had great matches with Samoa Joe but Joe is only indy big. This will sound weird, but the best comparable might be the Punk/JBL matches, which were surprisingly good. Despite the height difference, they just stiffed the crap out of each other. I guess Punk worked as a babyface against Batista too. Alright, over the course of this paragraph I've come around.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.92
    Originally posted by CHAPLOW
      Originally posted by Mike Zeidler
      I honestly think Taker respects MMA enough to talk Vince into letting Brock end the streak/retire him.


    What is Brock, the living embodiment of MMA? The only reason he's in WWE now is cause he got demolished in the UFC.
    I hope Undertaker retires undefeated, but he's probably going to lose the streak to Cena- THE TRUE HERO OF THE UNIVERSE.



In the world of WWE, yes Brock is the living embodiment of MMA.

That said, there's no reason to think that because Taker likes MMA that he wants someone from UFC to beat him. I'm willing to bet Taker has respected a lot of WM opponents more than he likes watching UFC.

I also think that Brock was done in UFC before that last fight. He went in knowing he was done. Didn't care, and had a goodbye speech ready. He lacked that "eye of the tiger" that those guys need. Brock may have still lost if he was healthy, Overeem was clean, and he was devoted to winning, but it was clear that he just didn't have the drive for that fight.
Llakor
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec, CANADA

Since last post: 531 days
Last activity: 522 days
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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
A very interesting piece on Grantland by a friend of mine, Chris Sims

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7904055/why-john-cena-losing-rock-brock-lesnar-matters-wwe

Well argued though it seems to presume a forward planning on the part of the writers that I don't think the evidence supports



"Don't Blame CANADA, Blame Yourselves!"
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 46 min.
Last activity: 45 min.
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
Unfortunately, they took the one person who is viewed as a legit bad ass that could make the company millions of dollars into just another defeated monster. And it was done all for the glorification of the WWE and John Cena. Now, we have Laurantis/Cena as a main event for a PPV. There was no forward thinking. It was have the wrestler beat the MMA, so we can pretend we are legit.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Unfortunately, they took the one person who is viewed as a legit bad ass that could make the company millions of dollars into just another defeated monster. And it was done all for the glorification of the WWE and John Cena. Now, we have Laurantis/Cena as a main event for a PPV. There was no forward thinking. It was have the wrestler beat the MMA, so we can pretend we are legit.
Laurinaitis/Cena is stupid, but I don't think Brock, or lack thereof, is the reason why that's happening. They've been building to John Laurinaitis vs Punk/Cena/whoever ever since they decided to make him an on-screen character. And, since it's happening on one of the throwaway PPVs, we're getting off easy.


I don't know, I still think people are vastly overrating Brock's return and its potential. The arrangement he has with WWE - if the reports are true - doesn't seem to lend itself well to being the regular focus of the show, or at least the title scene, and I think that's Brock's decision as much as anyone else's.

This isn't a matter of WWE not doing what the fans want as much as them using Brock to give themselves whatever boost they can from the year they have him. Maybe he will win the WWE title at Survivor Series, or the Royal Rumble, and lose it at WrestleMania, but then that'd be working around his usable dates (if the contract details being reported are true).

WWE has conditioned the fans over the last few years to expect that "The Champ Is Here" and if Brock isn't going to be around all the time, building up another 2002-style monster heel run doesn't make a lot of sense for anyone, including the fans who need a little more instant gratification these days.

This is like having The Rock around for more dates, or having Floyd Mayweather Jr. around for a year with limited appearances. He's being treated as a UFC star they brought in to give the company a rub, because that's where his career is at now.

Of course, after having a taste, Brock could want to renegotiate his deal if he likes how things are playing out, but with the money he's getting for the time he's putting in, I don't see why he would. He's gotten used to the UFC schedule, where he can train, have a home life, and fight the one or two dates a year they needed him. He'd have to really love WWE to re-up now, and his history suggests he doesn't love it THAT much.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 9.5.12 1225)
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 39 min.
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    I don't know, I still think people are vastly overrating Brock's return and its potential. The arrangement he has with WWE - if the reports are true - doesn't seem to lend itself well to being the regular focus of the show, or at least the title scene, and I think that's Brock's decision as much as anyone else's.

    This isn't a matter of WWE not doing what the fans want as much as them using Brock to give themselves whatever boost they can from the year they have him. Maybe he will win the WWE title at Survivor Series, or the Royal Rumble, and lose it at WrestleMania, but then that'd be working around his usable dates (if the contract details being reported are true).
I don't think the issue is usable dates, but a restricted number of dates. His problem isn't like the Rock's (where the Rock has a busy schedule and could fit Survivor Series in but not Summerslam); his problem is that he can only be used X times in the year.(1) That works perfect if you want to use him for specific peaks like having him appear on the big four (or the big three plus Survivor Series). It can work well if you want to particular peak with a title run from Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania, assuming you budget his dates correctly. (2) Having Lesnar appear every week except for the UK show was bad budgeting. Having Lesnar quit and not show up again until the Summerslam build (while having Paul Heyman keep his heat alive) is good budgeting. (3)

But every match down the line has a lower peak regardless of the budgeting. The question is no longer "how can HHH/Undertaker/Rock possibly survive against this legit badass", it's now "can they hit their finisher on Lesnar, possibly with the assistance of a chain or stairs"? They took the former UFC heavyweight champion and turned him into Umaga.

(1) I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that Lesnar is *very* available on any date, provided a modicum of advance warning; if Lesnar isn't on site, he will be at his cabin, or hunting somewhere. He's not going to be filing Scorpion King 5 with Kurt Angle and Batista.

(2) This isn't even the first time WWE has made this arrangement. Goldberg signed the same style of one-year, X-dates contract, and as a result of poor budgeting, he disappeared between No Way Out and Wrestlemania, causing Lesnar to have to feud with Special Referee Steve Austin, rather than meaningful face-to-face confrontations.

(3) The inevitable unneccesary appearances in mid-June and mid-September due to restlessness and the hope of convincing Lesnar to work more dates in March for free will be bad budgeting.



The Big Bossman raised the briefcase.

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Let's Go Riders! Owner of one (1) share.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I think it's pretty clear what I meant by usable. I didn't mean that Brock had better things to do by any means, outside of maybe his preference of spending time with his family.

When you have a limited number of dates, and you use some of them up, the rest that are left over are the usable ones.


I don't think Brock Lesnar is Umaga by any stretch. He's still Brock Lesnar and he still has a lot of personality, with the additional Heyman mouthpiece to keep him relevant. When Umaga lost, a big deal was made that he lost. Not so with the Lesnar/Cena match. The news story coming out is that yes, Lesnar can be beaten, but he'll likely still send you to the hospital in the process.

And he'll be a big baby about it and quit.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 9.5.12 1624)
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 11 min.
AIM:  
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.71
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    I think it's pretty clear what I meant by usable. I didn't mean that Brock had better things to do by any means, outside of maybe his preference of spending time with his family.

    When you have a limited number of dates, and you use some of them up, the rest that are left over are the usable ones.



I don't think it's out of the question for WWE to negotiate with Lesnar for more dates if it comes to that (and if Lesnar is willing to do so).



@gregmparks - live Tweeting of Raw and Impact, wrestling thoughts and other slices of life.
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 46 min.
Last activity: 45 min.
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    I think it's pretty clear what I meant by usable. I didn't mean that Brock had better things to do by any means, outside of maybe his preference of spending time with his family.

    When you have a limited number of dates, and you use some of them up, the rest that are left over are the usable ones.


    I don't think Brock Lesnar is Umaga by any stretch. He's still Brock Lesnar and he still has a lot of personality, with the additional Heyman mouthpiece to keep him relevant. When Umaga lost, a big deal was made that he lost. Not so with the Lesnar/Cena match. The news story coming out is that yes, Lesnar can be beaten, but he'll likely still send you to the hospital in the process.

    And he'll be a big baby about it and quit.

    (edited by SKLOKAZOID on 9.5.12 1624)


He didn't send Cena to the hospital. Cena gave a Be A Star speech after the match. Yes, he had a sling on, but its not like he was wheeled out. That was done by a 50 year old and Lord A-Train. The person he sent to the hospital well to the back was seen with a sling on Saturday having a good time with a boxer. Like Sims said it was all about putting the WWE over MMA. Which is not a good thing for Brock and in the long run, for the WWE. Then again, Sims thinks Superman III and Batman Forever at the best superhero movies of the 80s and 90s. Besides that, they have taken away the greatest monster heel in the last 15 years and turned him into another monster on the garbage pile of Cena's Ex-Monster Pile.

If Brock sent Cena to the hospital after the loss, I'd agree with you. Yet, he didn't. On top of the next night, HHH twisting the knife of saying he was a loser and can take his ball and go home. They devalued Brock to the point that HHH/Brock is a non-starter for him since we all know HHH is going to win. And if I were Brock, I'd finish my dates and unless Vince is going to give a shit more money, I wouldn't work for free either.



(edited by lotjx on 9.5.12 1852)

(edited by lotjx on 9.5.12 1854)

The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
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