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23.9.14 0730
The W - Pro Wrestling - The WWE Then and Now
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The Game
Boudin rouge








Since: 5.5.09

Since last post: 350 days
Last activity: 350 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
In the WWE today; to get a second of the spotlight, you either have to be a big man like Vince McMahon likes, or you have be a second or third generation wrestler.

And some of the stars that the WWE wants to "push" get squashed such as when Cody Rhodes lost to Mark Henry on Raw and the way The Miz lost to Cena at The Bash and it was a much better match on the Raw preceding The Bash.

Back then, random people (such as Barry Horowitz or perhaps The Lightning Kid) were not squashed all the time but pulled off upsets. The Lightning Kid (now known as X-Pac) beat Razor Ramon may be an extreme example of how upsets could happen and raise some credibility to a wrestler's persona.

Thoughts and Analysis:

I understand the mid-card is no longer relevant to the WWE but there is future talent and yet they seem irrelevant because the WWE no longer (or at least most of the time) doesn't use an upset for a mid-carder on a more mainsteam wrestler or at least give them credibility by having them squashed to every other big name wrestler.

There are ways to keep some of the mid-card relevant and I honestly think it would improve the "product" of the WWE by bringing some upset every now and then or at least not have the people they want to push get squashed more frequently.

Your thoughts and opinions..........
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 10 hours
Last activity: 13 min.
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.42
I will have to disagree with the big man argument. Vince used a ton of big men to go after Hogan for his belt like Anrde, Big John Studd and others. Also, people seem to omit Taker from the big man category. He held the belt in all of the wrestling eras from Rock N' Roll to Second Generation to Attitude to Today PG. He gets omitted, because he is a good wrestler with an amazing gimmick. I believe the push the big man idea was their from day one of making a wrestling show and will always be a wrestling stable.

As for the last name compliant. I view that as more of a brand name. It is easy to invest into a brand name then a totally new product. Sure, WWE has had a lot of success with Cena, Batista, Edge and others who don't have wrestling family names. Yet, its easier to bring a kid up with a famous father/uncle/mother or whatever to introduce to a new crowd then some unknown. Its also not new, Rock, Curt Henning, Jake the Snake and others had wrestling in their family. Hell, the WWCW was biased on the Von Eric family. I don't see their being a difference between now and then. Granted, it does feel like there are more famous sons and daughters now then back in attitude era, but I think you will be surprised to see how many famous sons and daughters to former wrestlers there were in Rock N'Roll or Second Generation, especially Second Generation.

I do agree there seems to be a new glass ceiling in WWE mainly on Raw. I just think you see more squashes on that show, because its a pecking order. If MVP were on Smackdown there is no doubt in my mind, he would have a title shot in the near future. Because, he is on a show with Big Show, HHH, Cena, Batista til recently and Orton all of who have held the belt multiple times. They also added Swagger and Henry who are former champions albeit its ECW. Still, he is going to get lost in the shuffle and lose matches. He can still lose and be honorable in doing so, but if his last match with HHH is any indication, I don't see that happening. WWE is so filled with main event stars thanks to the brand split that throwing a majority of those people on to any show is going to lead to mid-carders getting stepped on. WWE needs to cut the fat at the top instead of the bottom. Vince needs to take Big Show and Batista aside and tell them the clock is ticking, its time to see about how to send you out. I would say the same for Taker and Shawn, but since they have been M.I.A since Mania, they have not really affected anything. Still, those two probably will have a sit-down with Vince sooner or later.

(edited by lotjx on 9.7.09 1227)
Dexley's Midnight Jogger
Pepperoni
Moderator








Since: 10.10.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 232 days
Last activity: 147 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.45
    Originally posted by The Game
    In the WWE today; to get a second of the spotlight, you either have to be a big man like Vince McMahon likes, or you have be a second or third generation wrestler.


Current champ on Smackdown: C.M. Punk
Current champ on ECW: Tommy Dreamer

Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 8 hours
AIM:  
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.54
    Originally posted by Dexley's Midnight Jogger
      Originally posted by The Game
      In the WWE today; to get a second of the spotlight, you either have to be a big man like Vince McMahon likes, or you have be a second or third generation wrestler.


    Current champ on Smackdown: C.M. Punk
    Current champ on ECW: Tommy Dreamer




US Champ: Kofi Kingston
Tag Champions: Chris Jericho and Edge

I don't think there is much to this argument. Who is being pushed the inappropriate amount? If big men includes guys that are well built then I don't think Undertaker, Cena, or Triple H are being pushed more than they should. I don't like Batista but he's popular so why wouldn't they push him too. Maybe guys like Big Show, Mark Henry and Kozlov get a slightly better push but I don't think any of those guys are being pushed a ridiculous amount or anything.

As for second/third generation stars some get pushed (Dibiase and Rhodes) some get special treatment (Orton) but others get punished and set down (Smith) others get fired (Manu) and others don't do much (Gordy, Snuka). Maybe they get a look from the WWE because of their name but I don't think that many have been pushed more than they deserve.

Who is Jack Swagger related to that is getting him his push? Since when is Evan Bourne a "big man", Santino isn't related to anybody (other than Santina) and Hornswoggle isn't REALLY related to Fit Finlay.

(edited by Quezzy on 9.7.09 1251)


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Alex
Bratwurst








Since: 24.2.02

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.24
The actual problem with WWE these days is that there's way too many PPVs, and too little change between them. They're going for the "excitement through repetition" approach, and as a result we're in month 7 of a Randy Orton vs. Triple H feud that was stale before it even got started.
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.05
The biggest problem with WWE nowadays is that nobody gets pushed. The win-one, lose-one booking that leaves everyone saving face doesn't let anyone rise to the top. The only main eventers are the guys who have been there for years already (Cena, Edge, HHH, Undertaker, Michaels, Orton, Batista) and it's extremely difficult for anyone else to break through.



Kirk, crackers are a family food. Happy families. Maybe single people eat crackers, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know. It's a market we can do without.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 449 days
Last activity: 449 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.75
    Originally posted by The Game


    Back then, random people (such as Barry Horowitz or perhaps The Lightning Kid) were not squashed all the time but pulled off upsets. The Lightning Kid (now known as X-Pac) beat Razor Ramon may be an extreme example of how upsets could happen and raise some credibility to a wrestler's persona.








Until Horowitz finally won a match, it had been over 8 years since he won a match, and the only question when Horowitz appeared was how badly will he get destroyed for around a decade. His winning was the biggest upset in wrestling since that magical night when the words no one thought would be uttered in wrestling were spoken: "Mulkey's Win". Now, that is a piece of footage that is extremely difficult to find.
i before e
Chorizo








Since: 17.10.03

Since last post: 1370 days
Last activity: 130 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.27
I think the unique and somewhat enviable problem that the WWE has in regards to this situation is that they are victims of their own success. In the old days, guys would move on before they got over exposed. Also, Before PPV, a fan would see his favorite wrestler wrestle on TV every so often, and at a big (local) event a few times a year max. During the Hogan era, you only had a few PP Vs a year, and the top stars rarely wrestled on weekly TV, so the exposure/burn out factor worked at a far slower rate. Think about this; You had WM in lets say April. the next PPV was Summerslam which took place in August. In between, you had one or two Saturday Night's Main Event, which talent wise equals one episode of RAW, Smackdown or ECW (brand for brand. since this WM the WWE has produced dozens of SNME level shows (RAW, Smackdown, ECW) and already had 4 (or is it 5?) PP Vs since Wrestle mania, which is a full years plus worth of programming on the old schedule. there is no AWA, or WCW for these guys to go. Sure you have TNA, but that is not a viable option for a lot of the talent yet. So what you have is a roster full of talent that is over, seasoned, and very much invested in by the company. What do you do when a Shawn Michaels or Big Show gets over exposed? Fire them and throw all that time and money out the window? Its is quite the challenge the WWE has to face.

I hear a lot about how guys like Austin, Rock, Foley didn't get over exposed while on a similar schedule, but that is either A)not true or B)there are extenuating circumstances involved. Guys like those were exceptional talents first of all. More importantly, people are overlooking the fact that Austin got the big push starting in 97, got injured and off TV for a quarter of that year, got the big run from 98-00, got surgery and was off TV again until late 2000 or early 2001, and had one last good run till his last match with the rock in 2003. Rock got hot in 1998 and went full tilt for 2 years until Hollywood came calling and he became essentially a part time player. Foley got very over starting in mid 97, and took the push until his "retirement" at WM 2000. Notice how none of these guys were on top for more that 2 years straight. Had Rock not gone to Hollywood, we likely would be hearing the same complaints about him that we do about HHH. When you think back, we kind of were hearing grumblings right around the time he lost the belt to Brock Lesnar at Summer Slam 2002.

The point is that the WWE is stuck. There's no upward mobility, because out of all the main eventers from the past decade, a good chunk are still with the company. There's no character development anymore, so the only way to get someone over is to have them win a few matches. Unfortunately, the matches no longer tell stories, so all that matters is the W or L in the record books. Also as Big Bad pointed out, the WWE goes for the safety of one win one loss booking so as not to hurt anyone. Unfortunately, that just keeps everyone where they are, position wise. Heels rarely get to look like threats, which hurts any heel from getting too much over without turning face. The interviews are all pre scripted by writers, so the wrestlers cant even get over on the mic. God, this is depressing.
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