I watched a little over an hour, collectively, of Wrestlemania from last night and I received very little enjoyment out of it. Facebook was blowing up about Undertaker losing so I acquired the show to see that part of it and just skimmed over the rest of it. I'm still in shock by that, I suppose.
Then I sat here and watched RAW all the way through, and again, I got very little from it that I feel is worthy of my time or effort. It's like my mind isn't registering anything they are selling me and I don't understand why.
That opening to Wrestlemania was hard to watch. Seeing those three guys together just having fun and talking was a sign that everything the company is giving us today will never be as good as what it once was. In my eyes, none of the current roster will ever be able to stand next to Hogan, Austin, and the Rock as an equal, entertainment wise. I would throw Bret Hart in there along with Ric Flair and those will always be the top 5 guys in wrestling, ever. I can do without everyone else.
Aside from those 5 guys, All I see are random dudes that all look alike and sound alike and have no personality. No one really jumps out at me saying that they will still be around in a decade from now. Ric Flair says "To be the man you gotta beat the man." but currently, all I see are empty caricatures trading places and props.
It's not like I haven't tried giving the newer talent a chance. I really think I have, but none of it is working for me. Then I see those Adam Rose and Bo Dallas promos tonight and all my mind was thinking was "Glacier did these better." These guys will only be adding more shit to a full toilet. Along with that Ivan Drago rip off, that's almost 30 years too late (Yeah, Rocky IV was in 1985) and this new crop of wrestlecrap isn't even enjoyable.
Well, they finally broke me. After tonight, I'm done with them. I'm doing a Pontius Pilot and washing my hands of this mess that is the WWE. They had a decent run with me, but I just can't see myself wasting 20+ hours a month on something I don't believe in or get much enjoyment from. I am self imposing a ban on myself from commenting on all WWE RAW and PPV related posts.
EDIT: Yeah, I meant 20+ hrs a month. My bad.
(edited by Cerebus on 8.4.14 1424) Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
You know, I was feeling the same way. I had pretty much stopped watching Monday nights about a year ago. I was really just tired of what seemed like no direction from the writers. The talent has always seemed to try to do the best, so I can't hold it against them.
As for the talent looking the same, I cannot agree with that. Some people just are generic looking. But a CM Punk and Alberto Del Rio look different. Dolph looks different than Reigns. Etc. There are just too many guys who look individually unique I can't see it.
I do believe that, no matter what the Daniel Bryan fan boys say, HHH is doing a great job in his role, and I think the product is definitely heading in the right direction. I had no problem with Orton V Bautista as the main event, even though I don't care for either, they do have name recognition, and the WWE has to have that. But the very slow burn on Bryan becoming champion just can't be thrown together last minute. I think they're doing a lot to bring in fresh blood and get the roster motivated.
But then again, a lot of people quit watching after the 80s boom until the Monday night wars/attitude era kicked off. Maybe you just need a longer break.
(edited by StaggerLee on 8.4.14 0110) YOUR 2012 NCCA Tournament Bracket Challenge Winner
A few years ago I would've agreed about guys blending together. But they're starting to use gimmicks again and making it work. Guys like Daniel Bryan, the Shield, Usos, Los Matadores, Bray Wyatt, Ryback, Fandango, Ziggler, Cesaro all stand out for one reason or another. Of course ditto for Cena. A guy like Orton is familiar and thus noticable but yeah he still has a generic look/vibe.
Is there a standout name/wrestler like Austin or the Rock? No, but we got lucky to have TWO of those guys at the same time. Perhaps it's just unfamiliarity with the product these days? I'm sure someone who's never watched 80s/90s wrestling could believe Ricky Steamboat was anything special (he's just a generic asian karate expert, right?) or get why Flair and the Horsemen were so unique (guys with bling and big mouths..meh I see it all the time)
Cerebus, you're welcome to your own opinion, and if the product's not for you anymore, by all means find something else that is. But while I'm not going to get in your face or try to start some kind of argument, I cannot disagree with you any harder. I think the WWE product is the best that it's ever been. I'm not the oldest guy on the board by any stretch, but I've been watching sporadically since 1987, and faithfully since 1992. I've seen great talkers like Rock and Austin, I've seen great workers like Hart(still my favorite of all time) and Michaels, and I've seen the odd guy that I think is both. But right now, I'd say that the WWE has the finest crop of guys both on the mic and in the ring that they've ever had. The booking isn't always great, or good, or well, even passable, but when it is, when they give us something like WrestleMania, then I find myself smiling, and all the complaints go away. You say you don't see anyone in the company that can equal the guys that kicked off Mania, but Daniel Bryan is going to be around for a long, long time. Cesaro is just getting started. Bray Wyatt's got a gimmick almost as strong as the Undertaker's, and he's only been doing it for about a year. There are a lot of young, hungry lions in the business right now.
I can sympathize with the guys who drifted away from WWE's product because I had done the same thing. However, I'm glad a friend convinced me to watch Mania; I was indecisive on whether to watch at a sports bar or just take a pass. I would have been kicking myself if I had missed not only the good stuff but also the end of Taker's streak.
Mania and Raw both showed a lot of promise for the future...while I'm a cranky bastard to some extent as well, I'm willing to give them a chance. I watch a little bit of everything(WWE, TNA, ROH, local indies) and it's good to diversity one's entertainment palette...not just within wrestling, but otherwise.
I think this Raw helped me continue going forward. However, I know what you mean. I think there is a lot of Polly Anna Rose Color Glasses going on at times due to Bryan winning. Bryan is champ. Shield is a face faction this company surely needs, Cesaro can be a big deal and it looks like they are making an attempt with the women's division.
Yet, I wonder when we are in the usual boring summer season dealing with HHH vs. Bryan for the third or fourth time, Cesaro being feed the entire mid-card and Shield blowing up if everyone is going to feel the same. Yet, that is a possible alternate future as of now. Its just ok. Its not like it was during Hogan era or Attitude. They righted a ship going down, but there are still holes that need plugged up. They need to make the other titles to mean something. They need to shit or get off the toilet with some of their talent. They also need to come up with better storylines than evil boss. There is no Streak to lean on for next Mania, so they are going to be forced to either come up with a hot storyline or a must see match up. And yes, even if its a year away, they need to do it now, because that is how important the Streak was.
You're right, we only have Daniel Bryan, Cesaro, The Shield, The Wyatts, The Usos, The Rhodes brothers, Mark Henry, Batista, Randy Orton, and Cena running around on top of the card. Surely the Hogan & Attitude eras had at least 14 top guys running around at the same time.
"Tattoos are the mullets of the aughts." - Mike Naimark
"Don't stop after beating the swords into ploughshares, don't stop! Go on beating and make musical instruments out of them. Whoever wants to make war again will have to turn them into ploughshares first" - Yehuda Amichai
Originally posted by lotjxI think this Raw helped me continue going forward. However, I know what you mean. I think there is a lot of Polly Anna Rose Color Glasses going on at times due to Bryan winning. Bryan is champ. Shield is a face faction this company surely needs, Cesaro can be a big deal and it looks like they are making an attempt with the women's division.
But that wasn't the point. Booking our favorites properly is completely different from having a roster with guys who can go,who look distinctive and who actually are able to woo the crowd in their different ways.
Take Wyatt for example. I was afraid that facing Cena so soon would curse him (Cena doing his no-sell of emotions shit) But WWE treated the guy as his equal and it showed. Will he be cut down again (like Ziggler, Del Rio, Big E and so many others before) Yes. It-will- happen. But his unique style and look is a gimmick for years to come. He is their new Undertaker gimmick. Face or heel, followers or alone, he stands out.
Another one, Sheamus. He's not my favorite by a long shot but he has a unique look and can go. Sheamus's longer matches are always things to look forward to. Hell, even Ryback has shown signs of having a good gimmick (the big guy hating bullies was funny. He got caught in the Punk/Heyman feud tho)
One thing that I do have to agree with that there's probably nobody who can just grab a mic and talk for 20 minutes like Rock and Austin. Not Cena (been there done that, not Bryan (not the best promo guy) not Wyatt (he does it but 100% as a character. just talking wouldnt fit him yet)
Am I the only one thinking "Holy carp, how are you devoting 20+ hours a week to this??" I watch Raw, and when I'm bored I come on the message board here to read thoughts and contribute to the discussion if I have something to contribute. Even if you watch Smackdown (I don't; I just read the spoilers to keep up), that's five hours a week. Where are the other 15+ coming from?
Anything you do 20+ hours a week is going to get on ya. Wow.
Originally posted by dMpA few years ago I would've agreed about guys blending together. But they're starting to use gimmicks again and making it work. Guys like Daniel Bryan, the Shield, Usos, Los Matadores, Bray Wyatt, Ryback, Fandango, Ziggler, Cesaro all stand out for one reason or another. Of course ditto for Cena. A guy like Orton is familiar and thus noticable but yeah he still has a generic look/vibe.
Yeah, I don't know if the "They all look alike" thing applies anymore. 10 years ago, we were flooded with tattooed guys who looked like Batista, but over the last two years, WWE has done a really great job in bringing the crazy insane people back with distinct looks, like the Wyatt Family and the Shield. A lot of the stuff they're doing in NXT is specifically engineering talent to have their own distinct act and I think it's working.
This is the point right now in the company where, if you're not enjoying what's going on, yeah, you should probably check out, because the last two days are the kind of rewarding experience that keeps me watching.
That said, I can barely take 3 hours of RAW every week and haven't watched SmackDown in ages. I gave the live "Main Event" on the Network a shot, but it couldn't hold my entrance. NXT is pretty great, though.
I really look at wrestling from the perspective of a sports fan. I know, I know. Blah blah entertainment blah. But it's not either sport or entertainment, it's both. And neither. When I watch, I am analytical. I really can't help but to watch it that way and I don't feel it hurts my enjoyment. I am looking at execution of moves, pacing, styles of working, crowd reaction, psychology, how well commentary tells the story. I don't find it different from a pure sport in that sense; if you think NBA or NHL or MLB commentators aren't being paid to tell the story of the game and enhance the drama, you're naive. As such, I don't have the same expectations of WWE that I have of a typical TV show. If a regular TV show starts sucking, I just stop watching it. It doesn't make me upset. True Blood became absolute balls so I just say fuck it and gave up. When WWE sucks, to me it's just a bad season. But just as I'll never totally give up on the Leafs or the Raptors or the Jays (and God knows I want to sometimes), I will never completely give up on WWE.
What I will do, is watch these teams less when they're awful than when they're winning. It's a lot more fun to watch the Raptors now than it has been for many years (they still could break the franchise record for regular season wins). And when WWE is awful, I certainly watch it less. But somehow, I'm always going to keep an eye on it because it's just part of my lifestyle at this point.
So basically you are saying nobody will ever be equal to Hogan, Austin and Rock. You do realize all those guys started from the bottom and were built up right? It takes time to build guys up. Of course you feel the new guys you see teasers for are worthless.
The Rock was hated and awful when he debuted. It took years to bring him up to the top of the card.
Austin was loved as a midcard wrestler in WCW, brought to WWF and plunked at the bottom with a horrible gimmick, then things turned around and they built him up to beloved midcarder then he kept ascending to the top.
Hogan was already at the top when I started watching wrestling.
There will always be new stars. There will be someone just as popular as those three guys someday, if not moreso. You just never know who, or when.
If you aren't enjoying the product, stop watching. Why torture yourself? I stopped when Diesel was champion (WrestleMania XI or so) because I thought the product was just awful. It was. I got back into things prior to WMXII because I liked Hunter Hearst-Helmsley believe it or not. He was an early favorite of mine, and over the years he ascended the card.
I'm happy with the current state of things in the WWE.
WWE lost 70% of my interest years ago, like back in the EZ Board days but I still pay attention to what's going on just because they still do some things that amuse me and they use people I like. Same goes for TNA, they have talented people but 80% of the time utilize them horribly. The last few years I really got away from actively watching WWE and focused more than ever on Indy wrestling because it's actually wrestling. But lately the WWE has also been slowly bringing in the top Indy wrestlers and either letting them be closer to the characters they came in with rather than totally reinventing them or bringing out a new character that connects with the audience but still focuses on their wrestling abilities. This new direction that all the sports entertainment die hards are hating on is what's bringing me back around. When the rest of the current NXT top people come up to the "main roster" it's going to be even better. Of course the asinine storylines, ridiculous characters and need to push "entertainment" over being a wrestling based product are never going to completely go away as long as Vince & Stephanie are still running things but the in ring product, which is the only thing I care about, is on the upswing. They're taking things back to basics, including feuds based around simply getting to the top & letting mouthpieces like Zeb & Heyman be the narrators are what's making things interesting again. I'm much older than most here so I started watching in the late '70's and the 80's were when I really got into things like the Rude/Roberts feud and the 4 Horsemen. I'm actually feeling not incredibly down on the WWE product and if they can get a few more tweaks worked into things WWE might even get me on board with the program. I'm still going to mostly be about Indy's but by the time Wrestlemania comes back to California next year they might even get me back to going to some of their shows.
My interest in wrestling waxes and wanes. I started watching wrestling right before the dawn of the Attitude era, when HBK was the unstoppable, super-charismatic face that DB is today (I feel privileged to have seen both master and student hit their height at Wrestlemania). I was enthralled through Austin 3:16 and the birth of the Rock from just another black guy in the Nation of Domination (a Black Panther-type angle), to the most ELECTRIFYING MAN in SPORT-ENTERTAINMENT HISTORY!
I stuck with it through the beginning of the Millenium, saw coming of Y2J, watched Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle put on some workrate clinics, saw Eddie and Benoit get the titles they so richly deserved. I skipped most of InVasion, one of the most poorly played angles EVER, and have came and went several times since then.
I don't really consider it a big deal ... I simply find something else to do on Mondays and Thursdays/Fridays. I watch other things, read a book, go out on those days. Eventually, some Monday or another I'll be curious and flip on the TV. There's been a few times when I've done that, been bored with yet another rehash of something I've already seen in my 20 or so years of watching this ridiculous show, and decided to wander off again. Other times, a well-done match, a masterfully cut promo, or some killer new talent that joined up while I was away will catch my eye, and I'm back to spending Mondays munching a frozen pizza and watching RAW.
Take time off if you want. Take the rest of your life off if you never feel that urge to flip back over on some random Monday. Watching wrestling's a hobby, not a religion.
Remember, it's not like these awards are being handed out by unbiased group. Thus the winners will lean heavily toward the current roster (because doing otherwise could be perceived as admitting that you are not as good as you used to be).