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17.12.14 1359
The W - Pro Wrestling - The WWE has just lost it
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tigeralisingh
Chaurice








Since: 21.3.04
From: canada

Since last post: 3853 days
Last activity: 3822 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Man is it just me or is wrestling getting more boring everyweek, whats vince thinkin. First of all remember the draft lottery that was the biggest Bullsh*t raw ive ever seen, they talked about the lottery as if they combined the two rosters and then were gonna pick people one by one, but ended up being the same rosters execpt a few picks which were pretty much not the A class superstars execpt HHH Booker n RVD(n HHH juss went bak to Raw). Vince just screwed his fans making everyone think that Raw was going to be some crazy ass show that everyone would talk about.

And what the hell is the WWE doing to the Undertaker, i noe people who olny watched smackdown just to see him and i thought he would come out in the end but who do you get Bradshaw?! what the hell's wrong with you vince, this was all just some gimmick to get your ratings back up or somthin? let me guess taker's just gonna come out every now n then n just interfere with matches n then dissapere?
I wana get started on takers look but theres alrady enuff threads about that
Promote this thread!
Stilton
Frankfurter








Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 3239 days
Last activity: 3238 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.66
    Originally posted by tigeralisingh
    what the hell's wrong with you vince, this was all just some gimmick to get your ratings back up or somthin?


Yes. That's what it is. That's what it has always been. That's all it will ever be. Vince's job is to make sure the company doesn't go under. He does this by thinking up "gimmicks" to get the ratings up. Welcome to Professional Wrestling. Thank you very much.



So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!

(I'm told that, in the UK, my name is actually hilarious.)
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.83
Yeah, but there's gimmicks that work (like Mike Tyson) and gimmicks that suck so much shit that... well... I don't really know what, but the "draft" was one of them.

The guy's dead right about how shitty the draft was. "Oh look, RAW is crippled now, because one of those French guys no one can recognize that they're been burying for 5 months!" Having to listen to those two guys talk about the Heat and Velocity jobbers as if they were drafting Hulk Hogan circa 1985 was embarrassing. Much worse than the realization that the draft was only 6 picks each. What the hell's the point?

"New rivalries" Vince said. New rivalries with nothing but jobbers? Fantastic. And the only decent people drafted had half their 'big money' matches booked and done with no buildup within a week of the draft.


Tribal Prophet



Stilton
Frankfurter








Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 3239 days
Last activity: 3238 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.66
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    The guy's dead right about how shitty the draft was. "Oh look, RAW is crippled now, because one of those French guys no one can recognize that they're been burying for 5 months!" Having to listen to those two guys talk about the Heat and Velocity jobbers as if they were drafting Hulk Hogan circa 1985 was embarrassing. Much worse than the realization that the draft was only 6 picks each. What the hell's the point?

    "New rivalries" Vince said. New rivalries with nothing but jobbers? Fantastic.


Are the "jobbers" (i.e. rookies) supposed to stay "jobbers" (i.e. rookies) forever? What would you have had the announcers say on RAW last week? Something like, "Oh, Rene Dupree has been drafted to Smackdown. Big hairy deal! Who gives a shit about Dupree?"...? Somehow, I think that would have been worse.

Suppose, in a year or two, Dupree and Benjamin are the new face of wrestling. Breaking them out into singles competition this week would be regarded as a defining moment for both of them. Before I get all chewed up about what could have happened in the draft, I want to see how things pan out. That said, Hunter can kiss my ass sideways for staying on RAW, but that's another thread all together.



So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!

(I'm told that, in the UK, my name is actually hilarious.)
madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2351 days
Last activity: 2344 days
AIM:  
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.71
I believe the "jobbers" he is referring to are guys like Spike Dudley, A-Train, Rico, Chuck Palumbo, and Rhyno, who spend the majority of their time on B-shows, and venture to the A-shows to do the job.

I don't necessarily agree that these guys won't make an impact, but I can see why casual fans might be underwhelmed.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 2042 days
Last activity: 1976 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.26
"Yeah, but there's gimmicks that work (like Mike Tyson) and gimmicks that suck so much shit that... well... I don't really know what, but the "draft" was one of them.

The guy's dead right about how shitty the draft was. "Oh look, RAW is crippled now, because one of those French guys no one can recognize that they're been burying for 5 months!" Having to listen to those two guys talk about the Heat and Velocity jobbers as if they were drafting Hulk Hogan circa 1985 was embarrassing. Much worse than the realization that the draft was only 6 picks each. What the hell's the point?

"New rivalries" Vince said. New rivalries with nothing but jobbers? Fantastic. And the only decent people drafted had half their 'big money' matches booked and done with no buildup within a week of the draft."

Come on now, that's just twisting things around because you personally didn't like it. "The point" is that Booker, van Dam, Edge, Shelton Benjamin, Charlie Haas, Renee Dupree and the Dudley Boyz all now have fresh talent to work with, and in some cases a resurgent singles career to take a shot at. And none of the commentators fell all over themselves to make each pick seem like an earth-shattering deal, and the oens that were picked have a damn good chance of breaking out on their respective shows. After all, the only real frame of reference for this is The Big Show's move from Raw to SmackDown in late 2002. And in that case, he went from glorified jobber to main-event player in the space of four weeks.




For Relaxing Times...Make It Suntory Time

dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.97
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    New rivalries with nothing but jobbers? Fantastic. And the only decent people drafted had half their 'big money' matches booked and done with no buildup within a week of the draft.


    Tribal Prophet


Thanks to the lottery we now have the possibility new main event feuds on SD with Booker T, and on Raw with Edge. We also have guys with the potential to reach at least upper-mid card status (RVD and Rhyno) switching shows opening the possibility for new feuds there.

The Dudleys are the biggest name tag team out there and their move to SD gives young teams like the Bashams the opportunity to have a feud with regularly over guys who the fans accept as being credible tag champs. Thats 6 guys right there from a wrestling stand point who the fans would instantly care about.

On top of that, Raw gave us the trade of Heyman which led to his quiting leaving SD with no GM, another event of pretty hefty importance. On Thursday we then got a surprising new GM (where are all those people who were bemoaning the return of Steph?) in Kurt Angle who should be an interesting twist on the cliched evil-GM role.

Even the trade of a guy like Benjamin, who doesn't exactly grab most fans interest right now, will still be seen as a relatively big deal because it led to the split of recent tag SD tag champs.

Sure some of the moves (Dupree, Long etc) werent exactly earth shattering, but all of them seem logical and provide the opportunity for some young guys to get over in a new environment. In any case a lottery where every move involved a big name would have looked utterly contrived, and the impact of the big moves would have quickly been diluted.

A complete re-drafting (in fact any drafting) was never promised, in spite of the conclusions thamany here jumped to. What was promised was a lottery to shake up the rosters and provide new feuds. They delivered, and also got the highest Raw rating since 2002. This coming off their highest grossing ppv event in history. Which rather brings into question the original guys suggestion that the WWE has 'lost it'.
Snookum
Kishke








Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 2693 days
Last activity: 2674 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.01
Gotta go with dMr here. Yeah, it wasn't the huge shake-up that some expected, but if anyone remembers back to the first draft, that one really didn't shake-up things that much either when first looked at.

Anything that give some of these guys moved a chance to shine is fine by me. I always thought it was a mistake to move Rico from Smackdown in the first place, as his personality works better on Smackdown. He and Dupre both have a flamboyance (and, no, I don't mean "flaming") to their in-ring performance that makes them perfect for the glossy, theatrical style of Smackdown. (The way I see it, if Flair was just starting out, I would suspect he would be on Smackdown before RAW.)

But beyond that, we also got the new Heyman storyline eventually happening here, the return of Edge (who everyone here already knew was going to end up on RAW), Angle as GM of Smackdown, and finally a jumpstart for both RVD and Booker with the move.

Come to think about it, we also had a fun episode of RAW last Monday as well. Smackdown was storyline-heavy, but it worked for me at least. Could they have done something more radical than offered? Yeah, but overall I don't see WWE as "losing it" here.

Now if they had squashed Eddie to HHH on RAW, then I would have agreed with WWE losing it.
Skywalker
Braunschweiger








Since: 26.3.04
From: Houston

Since last post: 3296 days
Last activity: 3255 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.24
    Originally posted by dMr
      Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      New rivalries with nothing but jobbers? Fantastic. And the only decent people drafted had half their 'big money' matches booked and done with no buildup within a week of the draft.


      Tribal Prophet


    In any case a lottery where every move involved a big name would have looked utterly contrived, and the impact of the big moves would have quickly been diluted.

    A complete re-drafting (in fact any drafting) was never promised, in spite of the conclusions thamany here jumped to. What was promised was a lottery to shake up the rosters and provide new feuds. They delivered, and also got the highest Raw rating since 2002. This coming off their highest grossing ppv event in history. Which rather brings into question the original guys suggestion that the WWE has 'lost it'.


Big moves looking contrived? It's not 'professional' wrestling we're talking about here is it? It's not the glamour of 'sports entertainment' that we're discussing, is it? I think that when Trucks and Limo's are dropped from cranes and smashed in to 18-wheelers, you have a hard time passing off the arguement that something would have looked overtly 'contrived'.

It was not treated as a minor shake-up, and in fact it was pushed to the contrary. The feeling the initial poster gets is b/c he's obviously let down by what was built up as the next big event in the WWE unleashing a new era of RAW and Smackdown. Please tell me how Dupree and Shelton couldn't have started fueds in thier existing brands? Shelton and Haas having a go and Dupree v Conway would have been perfect starting points. This wasn't a 'spin the wheel' make a match type thing. This was something hyped on both of the mainstream shows as well as jobbervision. I am enthralled with the potential of Benjamin and Conway, the WWE did nothing for me when it made those choices however.

One could argue that if there was a draft instead of a 'draft lottery' that it would have shown EB/Haymen (Angle) saw potential, talent, and a rising star in the picks...as it is, claiming false advertising has some merit.
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.97
    Originally posted by Skywalker
    It's not 'professional' wrestling we're talking about here is it? It's not the glamour of 'sports entertainment' that we're discussing, is it? I think that when Trucks and Limo's are dropped from cranes and smashed in to 18-wheelers, you have a hard time passing off the arguement that something would have looked overtly 'contrived'.


Suspension of disbelief is still fairly important however. Obviously the lottery was fixed but its best not to make it entirely obvious. If every trade had involved one of the top guys then the 'shock' factor would be lost after about the third or fourth pick because everyone would know what was coming. On top of which the impact of any individual trade would be rather lost in a mish mash of high profile moves leading to a totally incoherent show. And on top of THAT if you move more big names then soon you'll be at the stage where the SD main-eventers are on RAW and vice versa. Which would be utterly pointless in the long term.


    It was not treated as a minor shake-up, and in fact it was pushed to the contrary.


And as I already said many of the moves were of guys at or around the ME level (Booker T, Edge, HHH briefly); guys that the fans care about (Dudleys, Heyman, RVD); or guys that have the potential to be pushed (Rhyno, Benjamin, Dupree). The draft was thus likely to not only have a suitable impact in the eyes of many fans but is also potentially good for long term business.


    The feeling the initial poster gets is b/c he's obviously let down by what was built up as the next big event in the WWE unleashing a new era of RAW and Smackdown. Please tell me how Dupree and Shelton couldn't have started fueds in thier existing brands? Shelton and Haas having a go and Dupree v Conway would have been perfect starting points.


They couldn't have been pushed so easily in their existing environments because primarily their presence in tag teams meant that they would have to go through a month or 2 of break up before any singles push started. Moving them to a new show gives them a fresh start against fresh guys. Big Show is a glaring example of how a roster swicth can be beneficial. Benoit's not far behind. The obvious retort would be Matt Hardy who is currently treading water but OSH posted something (from Meltz?) about how they had to abort the feud they had planned for him due to Mark Henry's injury.


    This wasn't a 'spin the wheel' make a match type thing. This was something hyped on both of the mainstream shows as well as jobbervision. I am enthralled with the potential of Benjamin and Conway, the WWE did nothing for me when it made those choices however.

    One could argue that if there was a draft instead of a 'draft lottery' that it would have shown EB/Haymen (Angle) saw potential, talent, and a rising star in the picks...as it is, claiming false advertising has some merit.


A draft would have been silly. If Bisch or Heyman failed to pick their counterparts main-eventers they would have looked like idiots, so the guys at the top plus one or 2 others would have switched places and we would have the same upper-cards on different nights. Colour me carefree. The way they played it with the respective GM's delighting (or despairing in the case of Spike) in their picks worked well to get over the guys they picked up. Bishoff would have looked super evil and clever for picking Heyman with his last pick though. That I'll grant you.

False advertising? Feh. But I'm doing a business major where advertising plays a part so my definition of false and whats borderline may be rather different from most I dont see a case regardless here though.

They promised a lottery. Check
They promised big name moves. Check
They promised new feuds. Check
They promised partnerships would be broken. Check

We also got 3 title matches and one title change in one night. And something which has so far been overlooked for the most part is that we are now in the position where the leader of Evolution is the only member without a belt, something that could lead to some interesting interactions within the group.

(edited by dMr on 28.3.04 2001)
hhhgamewmx7
Bockwurst








Since: 15.6.03
From: Eire

Since last post: 3321 days
Last activity: 3298 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.78
I think the draft went well. I thought this past Smackdown was the best i've seen in a long time. Solid matches and entertaining backstage and in ring promos. RVD and Booker can only go up and my interest with Smackdown is now back up there with Raw. Hopefully the next few weeks will see the elevation of many more stars. I'm really liking Renee Dupree and Shelton Benjamin to be breakout stars soon.



Tyler Durden
Landjager








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 21 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.11
    Originally posted by hhhgamewmx7
    RVD and Booker can only go up and my interest with Smackdown is now back up there with Raw. Hopefully the next few weeks will see the elevation of many more stars.


I feel the same way!

With Benoit now on Raw there werenīt too many wrestlers left on Smackdown I was personally interessted to see in. Maybe Cena and the new old Undertaker. Iīm glad theyīve switched Van Dam and Booker!





The first rule of Fight Club is:

You donīt talk about Fight Club!


The second rule of Fight Club is:

You donīt talk about Fight Club!
Skywalker
Braunschweiger








Since: 26.3.04
From: Houston

Since last post: 3296 days
Last activity: 3255 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.24
DMR: I'm new here and not web fancy so I don't know how to break up the quotes like that but I will reply to just a little of what you said...it's far too long to quote the entire thing.

I never asked that all the main-eventers be switched, I simply wanted it to live up to the hype. If I am an average fan, this did not live up to the hype, then again, not many things do.

Couldn't have been pushed b/c of tag team situations? As I recall, the boyhood dream for Shawn Michaels began with a little mirror, a little blood, and a little tag team partner....turning on your tag partner ALWAYS gets over. Whether it's Heat or Pops that you want from the crowd, I have honestly never seen a tag-partner turn initially fail to get a great reaction.

A draft would have been silly b/c then they would have to be pushed? When's the last time we saw Book in the last match on RAW? Be it run-in, tag team, or interview...I can not remember the last time he's done that and that's how long it's been. The people with a purpose will still get pushed...I think that 'drafting' them instead of a lottery could aid in future storylines and also develop angles which naturally get the people in question on camera. Whether they are hanging out w/ the GM's who drafted them, acting as henchmen for them, or are being tortured by them b/c they refuse to give in....the possibilities could have been endless.

As it is, it's fine, i'm certainly not crying about it. I don't feel the original poster was out of place however. If I am the average WWE fan, I must say that I am a little disappointed w/ reality not equalling the hype.
XPacArmy
Frankfurter








Since: 13.5.03
From: Woodbridge, VA

Since last post: 407 days
Last activity: 404 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.43
    Originally posted by tigeralisingh
    Man is it just me or is wrestling getting more boring every week, whats Vince thinkin. First of all remember the draft lottery that was the biggest Bullsh*t raw ive ever seen.


I would have agreed with you if this was after the "RAW X Awards" thing. Or what I like to call the "Gigli of WWE events." But about the draft on Monday, I thought it was good. I do wish there were more trades but hell this will lead to new feuds and hopefully new champions. And going by the ratings for the RAW Draft Lottery it was a success. So I have to disagree with your post.



It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
Skywalker
Braunschweiger








Since: 26.3.04
From: Houston

Since last post: 3296 days
Last activity: 3255 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.24
(deleted by CRZ on 28.3.04 1705)
Stilton
Frankfurter








Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 3239 days
Last activity: 3238 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.66
I just caught the last half of Heat tonight, and the final match was a fairly long match with Matt Hardy vs. Lance Storm. It was a very good match with a lot of in-ring drama, and for a Heat match, the crowd was fairly into it. Not bad for a throw-away match with no back story. As matches go, I dare say it was better than most things I've seen members of Evolution do over the past several months. If the draft has aftershocks, with things getting shuffled around, even if only a little bit, it would be good to see more of this kind of work on RAW. Solid wrestling with solid in-ring drama. I was more into this match than I have been in most RAW contests lately, with the possible exception of HHH vs Eddy this past Monday, but at the time, both guys were supposedly SD stars (eye-roll). I suppose that says something about under-used talent and the way things have been booked lately, or maybe just about my preferences when it comes to wrestling vs. sports entertainment. Just my two cents.



So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!

(I'm told that, in the UK, my name is actually hilarious.)
Hoodle
Bauerwurst








Since: 19.12.03

Since last post: 3420 days
Last activity: 3415 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.18
I saw this match, too - and I agree, it was a great contest.


Overall, I'm happy with the draft-lottery.

1. Dupree is a sure-fire star in the making. He'll be US champ by mid-summer, I think. Looking forward to an extended feud between him and Cena.

2. Cade will also be at IC-level contention by the end of summer - I just saw him on Heat, and man, as a singles wrestler he connects with the audience so much better!! I now see why WWE is so high on him. (Yes, I realize much of the crowd noise on Heat is dubbed, but that doesn't change the fact that he was very compelling.)

3. Jindrak is kind of a wild card - he's got oodles of athletic skill, I guess the real question is his personality . . . I think he'll eventually end up back in a tag team with O'Haire. (And that is a Very Good Thing.)

In addition, Edge, Booker T and RVD all have clear paths to the main event now.

I think the point of "where it all begins . . . again" is actually more of an appeal to the smarter half of the crowd. That is, I think the point of the draft lottery was to lay the foundation for the main event scene to evolve into something very new and different within a year or two. By WM 21 we should be seeing Booker T, RVD, Edge, Cena and Orton all in the World title picture. I think Vince was counting on a lot of people to understand that and have patience. I think he wants people to look at WM XX *in retrospect* and say, "Yeah, that was like when Rocky and Austin were fighting over the IC belt - that was when things started to take off." Remember, when Austin/Rocky/HHH were fighting over the IC belt, the main event was still filled with the Same Old Thing. This may be no different.

Where it all *BEGINS* again. This may be just the beginning.



Venom
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.03

Since last post: 2660 days
Last activity: 2631 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.39
The point of the draft wasn't to completely move all the main-eventers from one side to the other. It was to move some uppercarders, and a few a midcard jobbers with potential and REBUILD them into something meaningful on a different stage. I think a lot of people where thinking this would be a complete reboot of the entire roster (my friends thought there would be a total reshuffling of the rosters, not just 6 picks each) and that's where the disappointment comes from.



I'm gonna be an ELF!
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.97
    Originally posted by Skywalker
    As I recall, the boyhood dream for Shawn Michaels began with a little mirror, a little blood, and a little tag team partner....turning on your tag partner ALWAYS gets over. Whether it's Heat or Pops that you want from the crowd, I have honestly never seen a tag-partner turn initially fail to get a great reaction.


You remember the Hardy's break up that ended with the Lita special ref match? And that was with fully established guys who the fans really cared about (possibly too much to boo either of them). More recently you've had Rhyno/Benoit and Eddie/Tajiri split up to either no reaction, or entirely the wrong one.

The fans really aren't into the characters of the tag teams in question enough to give much of a shit about a split. More importantly, they have been given absolutely no reason to cheer for any member of La Resistance (silly dance excepting) and precious little reason to cheer either Benjamin or Haas since the lot of them came into the WWE. Having them try to get one over as a face through sympathy would almost inevitably be doomed to failure as a result. Why would you have sympathy for a guy who you've only ever been taught to boo?

It could have been done well over a long period with one member of the team slowly turning face (or both turning then one turning back again) and then being attacked by his team mate down the line, but that would have taken a heck of a lot of time and delayed these guys getting their singles pushes. I'm not saying it COULDN'T be done sans trade, just that it would have taken a lot longer and probably not have been as succesful.

I would say the lottery possibly lacked the one REALLY big roster switch to give it some real spice, but to an extent the Raw viewers got that through the HHH move (even though it din't stick) and the return and switch of Edge, which only internet fans really knew about. The real test of its effect of course wont be in the ratings for that one show however, but in how they move over the next month or 2.

Oh and the FAQ link at the top of the page should help you with quotes, font types and what have you if you ever have the need for such things.
JrBernal83
Cotto








Since: 26.8.03
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 3814 days
Last activity: 3802 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.33
I am a little upset with the draft myself. They should have moved a few more stars like Cena, Orton, and Batista to a different show. What they need to do, is do a COMPLETE draft like they did after WM18. So we can have a "New" WWE. How can Vince call this a New WWE? its the same but with a couple of stars people really dont care for on different shows (except Edge). When and if they do bring back ECW they should have then in the Draft with RAW and Smackdown!. That would be nice to do because then everybody on each Roster will have an equal amount of TV time and guys like Matt Hardy and Lance Storm can finally get a Title that they deserve!



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It doesn't show up here in CT, but looking through the bios I was wondering who exactly 'Smart' Bart Sawyer is Click Here (usachampionshipwrestling.com) It says he wrestled Flair, Anderson and Luger and even was a tagteam partner of The Rock.
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