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21.12.14 0404
The W - Pro Wrestling - the world title - unforgiven and beyond!
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knightvibe
Salami








Since: 12.7.03
From: st louis, missouri

Since last post: 3631 days
Last activity: 3630 days
#1 Posted on
It seems to me that Triple H will lose the title to Goldberg @ Unforgiven. I think they added the "career" stipulation to pop the buy rate and I think it is a good idea for the PPV. After all, you are pretty much gaurenteed at seeing Goldberg's last match or the Triple H title loss. Seems as if we'll get a pay off either way.
As for after Unforgiven, they will build to a monster clash with Goldberg defending against Kane. Kane will probably destroy him and a babyface Triple H will come back to save the day.

what does everyone else think??



and thats all i have to say about that!
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Santa Sangre
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Since: 21.6.02
From: Germany

Since last post: 529 days
Last activity: 417 days
#2 Posted on
We all saw how the first HHH face run faired. He sucked so bad he had to turn back heel with that parking lot beat down of HBK. I for one would really like to see Goldberg get retired. If Goldy does win, though, I think HHH would go down to the mid card level. Maybe he could go to the tag ranks w/Orton and do that for a while. I wouldn't mind seeing a heel in peril Orton and hot tag H have a run with those titles and bring the tag championship a little credibility.

(edited by Santa Sangre on 30.8.03 1526)


"Orton possesses all the cute, fit and goofily oblivious handsomeness that is expected of the Guests of Honor at NAMBLA conventions."

Thanks Jeb,Southpark similies are sweet!!
BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3436 days
Last activity: 3346 days
ICQ:  
#3 Posted on
I'd plan to have Goldberg drop the title to Kane at Armageddon. Where you go from then depends on how well Goldberg had been received as champion.

If Goldberg's run had been going well:

*Have Bischoff appoint someone else as #1 contender for the Rumble and set it up that Goldberg will have to win the RR to get a rematch for the title at WrestleMania.

*Goldberg wins the Rumble.

*Goldberg is finally the guy who beats Kane and wins the title at WM.

(If No Way Out is a Smackdown PPV, which it appears it will be, it makes much more sense to have a Raw guy win the RR since WM would be his next big title shot...someone on SD would have to get a title shot before then on PPV)

If Goldberg's run had been a brutal failure:

*Put an end to it and move on.

(Three months will be enough time to gauge if a guy is making progress as champion...if Goldberg is champ from Unforgiven to Armageddon and is going nowhere or isn't being well received by then, well, the experiment failed.)

Face HHH has no place in this mix. He should be returning a job or two for the guys he buried over the past year as world champ.
knightvibe
Salami








Since: 12.7.03
From: st louis, missouri

Since last post: 3631 days
Last activity: 3630 days
#4 Posted on
hopefully Orton will have a run in 2004. I think WWE has the right idea to build him as the "legend killer".
he could be the next great WWE home grown talent. injuries have slowed his progress but I think he's ready to take off!



and thats all i have to say about that!
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
There are plenty of guys I'd give a world title run to before Orton.



"When this bogus term alternative rock was being thrown at every '70s retro rehash folk group, we were challenging people to new sonic ideas. If some little snotty anarchist with an Apple Mac and an attitude thinks he invented dance music and the big rock group is coming into his territory, [that's] ridiculous." - Bono, 1997
rvjgd
Linguica








Since: 17.8.03

Since last post: 2643 days
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#6 Posted on
Randy is ready.
darkmatcher
Bockwurst








Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

Since last post: 2735 days
Last activity: 1810 days
#7 Posted on
    Originally posted by knightvibe
    hopefully Orton will have a run in 2004. I think WWE has the right idea to build him as the "legend killer".
    he could be the next great WWE home grown talent. injuries have slowed his progress but I think he's ready to take off!


Hopefully taken off, of my TV! LOL!
Sorry, that was bad, but in a good way.



what you say
RKMtwin
Boudin rouge








Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

Since last post: 2242 days
Last activity: 1685 days
#8 Posted on
    Originally posted by darkmatcher
      Originally posted by knightvibe
      hopefully Orton will have a run in 2004. I think WWE has the right idea to build him as the "legend killer".
      he could be the next great WWE home grown talent. injuries have slowed his progress but I think he's ready to take off!


    Hopefully taken off, of my TV! LOL!
    Sorry, that was bad, but in a good way.


I couldn't agree with you more!

I read on another thread about the possibility of Orton getting a run with the World Title, and that would just not work AT ALL. He SUCKED as a face. He's done little to build on his momentum and character after the Foley angle.
When Mick Foley spoke at my college this past week about Randy Orton, he felt that Orton had to do more to put his gimmick over, and that if he could get Foley's gourd up in such a way as to make Foley mark out, he would come back and work a program with him.

The only way I could see Orton as World Champion is if he took his gimmick so far above and beyond what he is doing now. If he had Rock's charisma and willingness to get under the fans' skin, Orton COULD work out. If not, he'll be, in my eyes, another heel that lacks good heat whatsoever, like A-Train, the Bashams, Batista and Rico.




XPacArmy
Frankfurter








Since: 13.5.03
From: Woodbridge, VA

Since last post: 410 days
Last activity: 407 days
#9 Posted on
    Originally posted by rvjgd
    Randy is ready.


Sadly I don't think he is. He really doesn't get a reaction when he comes out. It seems the only booing happens because he is part of the Evolution group and thats it.



Homer Simpson: If they can send a man to the moon, why can't they make my shoes smell good?
Alex
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Since: 24.2.02

Since last post: 23 days
Last activity: 1 day
#10 Posted on
Both Triple H and Brock Lesnar were fairly un-over during their first big main event push, and they turned out okay.
Austin`s post WM X-7 heel turn got off to a stumbling start, too, so with these things it`s very hard to predict how well Randy will/won't catch on.

(edited by Mack Salmon on 1.9.03 1931)

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BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3436 days
Last activity: 3346 days
ICQ:  
#11 Posted on
    Originally posted by RKMtwin
      Originally posted by darkmatcher
      The only way I could see Orton as World Champion is if he took his gimmick so far above and beyond what he is doing now. If he had Rock's charisma and willingness to get under the fans' skin, Orton COULD work out. If not, he'll be, in my eyes, another heel that lacks good heat whatsoever, like A-Train, the Bashams, Batista and Rico.



    You mean, like his dad?

    I think Orton has more potential than any of the guys you mentioned, but he's not channeling it well right now at all. His RNN character was so much more interesting, not unlike Kurt Angle in that he was so over the top with that traditional babyface stuff that he came full circle as a heel. The insincerity in every word he spoke was just gold. Now, he's just another cocky pretty boy type, almost a HHH, Jr. Unless Randy can somehow set himself apart, he could wind up a career second-fiddler, just like his old man.
madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2354 days
Last activity: 2347 days
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#12 Posted on
Well, I for one would like to see Goldberg hold on to the title until either Armageddon or Royal Rumble.

And oddly enough, I would buy Rando Orton as the man to beat him.

While I think that the "Legend Killer" gimmick is weak, I think that the Evolution faction is a group created in his image, not Flair or HHH. In fact, the "survival of the fittest" mantra that underlies its namesake philosophical concept necessitates Randy taking out both Flair and Triple H before long. So instead of giving Randy the ball too soon, I'd make the Intercontinental division the focal point for a while, with Goldberg plowing through guys, but with the truly entertaining matches and feuds at Intercontinental level. I'd also rebuild the tag team division with some superteams like The Clique and Evolution (that'd be Orton and Batista) mixing with neophyte teams like GoldStorm, the Superfriends, and a Rico team (I'd team him with Val Venis, myself, based on a wacky stipulation).

You see, the beauty of a Goldberg title reign is that you can program him against anyone, face or heel, and the simple setup is that the challenger wants his title, and he will NOT eat a spear-jackhammer combo. Kane, RAW's resident monster, can be permitted to no-sell a spear. Batista, RAW's resident Goldberg-clone, should be permitted to give Goldberg a spear-jackhammer combo of his own. RVD can get all "flippy flippy spot spot" on Goldberg before jobbing. Booker T can recapture some of that DDP-Goldberg "Halloween Havoc" vibe.

But whither Triple H? First of all, the "failure" of the HHH face run, accepted as fact be the IWC, is not the case. The un-compelling Jericho-HHH storyline was felled by its focal point shifting from the intense and incredible post-Royal Rumble promo between the pair to the McMahon-Helmsley divorce, with Lucy the dog playing a more prominent role than the Undisputed Title. After HHH was transformed from "Intense Competitor who lives and breathes this industry and embodies WWE Desire" to "embattled guy going through a divorce and losing all of is stuff, but trying to be a smart-ass about it," much of the fans' goodwill was flushed down the drain.

The second stage of the "failure" was programming him against the incredibly popular Hulk Hogan. When you think about it, whatever the IWC "HHHatred," when faced with the awesome power of the Orange Goblin, the man had to yield. The Hulkamania pop turned Rock heel for one night, but instead of going with the obvious Rock heel turn, with HHH and Hogan joining forces against a hated NWO, strengthened by the addition of Hollywood Rock, which would have HELPED HHH's face run, they instead did the old HHH "I would cripple my grandmother to keep my title" shpiel, which of course led to Hunter walking with the heels again. Basically, the booking necessitated HHH's heel turn, because the WWE was (a) afraid to turn Rocky and (b) so giddy from the return of Hulkamania that they thought that he needed a nostalgia run as champ, which was an even bigger failure than HHH as a face. So what was the point of that?

But back to my issue: Maybe after HHH goes through a "humbling process" where he gets to work in the mid-uppercard in real feuds and put on real matches with guys that need the rub (Booker, RVD), after he takes time off to heal and honeymoon, of course, he can get a run with the ball again. In the meantime/inbetweentime, give Goldberg some shine in money matches. (I SO want to see Goldberg vs. Lesnar champion vs. champion at Survivor Series)
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 2 days
#13 Posted on


Triple H will somehow be in the World Title match at WMXX ... his ego wouldn't allow anything else.




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spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 2 days
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#14 Posted on
I know this is supposed to be the match where the stips guarantee Goldberg takes the belt and all that, but I am still just not feeling it. Even putting aside the HHHatred that I usually feel, I just have a problem seeing him losing this match. The lead up for this just feels way too much like deja vu to most of his other defenses.

Considering that A)WWE stips are never exactly iron-clad and B)Raw booking rule #1 is "Austin outwits evil in the end" and I am seeing Goldberg not getting the belt at Unforgiven. Perhaps he gets a DQ win, perhaps a no-contest or something, and then the intrigue for the off month with no Raw PPV is "will Goldberg be able to/be willing to come back." in theory leading up to his title win at Survivor Series. Of course the cynic in me sees this scenario being the case except that HHH wins at Survivor Series as well, but I'm willing to indulge a little optimism on this one.

Whenever it seems obvious what WWE is going to do, it rarely works out that way.



She was worth 800 miles driving to see her play - Brenda Weiler

blogforamerica.com
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 12 hours
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#15 Posted on
    Originally posted by Mack Salmon
    Both Triple H and Brock Lesnar were fairly un-over during their first big main event push, and they turned out okay.
    Austin`s post WM X-7 heel turn got off to a stumbling start, too, so with these things it`s very hard to predict how well Randy will/won't catch on.


Maybe they turned out "okay," but didn't really come all that close to "good" or "great."

I may be in the minority here, but I still don't think Brock is ready to be pushed at the level that he is. He did not work out at all as a babyface and now he's a heel again. Even as a heel, I don't think he's all that great, but can work well if paired with a McMahon or a Heyman. It takes someone else to get him over, not Brock himself.

While you do make a good point about Austin's heel turn being poorly executed to begin with, Austin's talent is primarily responsible for making his new persona work. Orton has yet to show any of these qualities.

Orton has been both the Rocky Maivia-esque babyface and now The Rock-esque heel and both have been, so far, uninspiring. When The Rock first emerged, he caught on fire and took risks. No one popped for the People's Elbow the first time he did it, but it caught on. Randy Orton is taking no such risks and is, instead, probably listening to the scriptwriters. He has a lot of work to go to prove himself, and it ain't going to be by following the same path as The Rock with Vince's guidance. He needs to reinvent himself.

EDIT: HHH's face run was ill-booked, but it was also doomed for failure, for two fundamental reasons: A) His character was too serious and driven by power, and B) He was such an evil person that to turn "good" was an inconsistency that the fans wouldn't buy without HEAVY (incredibly heavy) marketing and promo packages behind it. Even then, it only lasted one night.

The Stephanie-HHH feud hurt everyone involved, but by the time HHH started feuding with Angle before that feud, ths MSG pop had died down and the "Beautiful Day" montage wore off. Beneath the surface, HHH's character can't get by on "I am this business!" every week. That's all his character is, there's no depth. That's why he works best as a heartless heel consumed by power. You don't need depth to be pure evil and driven by materialism, as HHH is.

HHH in his DX persona was popular, but that was when HHH was willing to let himself go and, as I said above, take risks. He alone shaped his character into the immature, snotty jerk that HBK was. And it worked.

Ultra-serious "I work hard to be the best!" won't work, especially after all of the ill-will created in his heel run. Nobody WANTS to see HHH be the best after he's cheated and slept his way to the top to get there. He had to lose it all and work to get it back, which Vince, Steph, or HHH weren't willing to let HHH do. He can't turn face until he pays off all the heat he's been given.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 2.9.03 1238)
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1488 days
Last activity: 396 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
HHH will drop the belt, but not cleanly. He goes on his honeymoon, then returns and gets his job back. Kane will busy himself by torturing small animals with a rake.








-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#17 Posted on
    Originally posted by rvjgd
    Randy is ready.


Well can't argue with that logic!

Seriously though, I don't think he's ready. I think he has the makings down the road but I think it's even further down the road than the Smackdown wrestlers (Edge, Eddie, Cena) getting the World Title.

One problem with the Rock/Orton comparison is that when Rock was doing his heel run he didn't have someone like Triple H overshadowing him. He was THE Man. And having Stone Cold to feud with for the IC title wasn't a bad thing either. I think it's hard to buy into Orton being a contender when he seems to be the weak link of the team. It's been rumored that they will eventually have Orton take over Evolution (like Rock with NOD) and while I'm not looking forward to face Triple H, I think it would do Orton some good to get out of Triple H's shadow. Then if he fails after that then atleast you gave him a shot.

If they are going to keep him with Evolution then atleast let him do his own interviews and matches and give him a meaningful feud. I like the HBK feud so far storywise, not sure about how Randy will perform in the ring though. After HBK though I think they should feud Randy with a face IC champion Jericho. It will give him someone great to work with ala The Rock's feud with Stone Cold.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
rlbehan
Chipolata








Since: 6.7.02
From: Albany

Since last post: 3323 days
Last activity: 2106 days
#18 Posted on
I don't see Orton as anything special, but clearly someone with some clout in the WWE does, and so he is getting a big time push. As for comparing him to others, the closest that comes to mind is Test,and like Test, he is just another heat killer. Little he does excites a crowd. Soon Stacey or someone else will be attached to Orton to prop his pop up, but like Test, Orton will be shoved down our throats again and again and again.
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I thought the show was alright. I guess we can expect the real reason for Psycho Lisa leaving. That Scott-Jonah subplot was funny. "Joani." I think Scott's going to leave next week.
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