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The W - Movies & TV - The Walking Dead 2x11 - "Judge, Jury, Executioner"
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 82 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
Welcome to The Walking Dead RPG where you play as Dale. Your mission is go all around the farm, talk to everyone in the group and try to persuade them to side with you in sparing Randall's life. Unfortunately, your Dale avatar has really low Charisma and Persuasion skill points. Even Glenn wasn't convinced.

If it matters any, I agree with Dale. (And Andrea too, as it turned out.) Even in Walking Dead World, the better part of your humanity is worth striving for, and it's vitally important to do so in a broken group living in a broken world. I'd have sided with Dale.

You can also choose to play this week's RPG as Carl, wander into the forest alone after giving Carol smart lip, and meet a Walker. Do you A) Run like hell B) Shoot him with the gun you stole from Darryl's bike C) Just sit and stare at the Walker? You choose B and screwed it up. But you didn't get yourself killed. I don't know what to make about Carl anymore. That kid is getting weird.

I like that Rick seems to go by Lord Eddard Stark's code when it comes to executions. He should have explained to Carl the way Ned did to Bran in episode one of Game of Thrones why it has to be him to perform the execution. Too bad Rick doesn't have a giant broadsword called Ice, though his .44 Magnum is a fine substitute. Also, Bran would never talk back to his lord father.

The debate about Randall's fate was a bit reminiscent of Lost season 2 when Ben was held captive in the hatch as "Henry Gale". Randall lost all his sympathy points from being tortured by Darryl when he tried to coerce Carl. Granted, he was desperate, but that revealed shades of manipulation and deception that makes Randall seem more dangerous than the helpless kid he seemed to be.

Herschel and the Gold Watch. A great attaboy for Glenn from Maggie's dad, but how fucking funny would it have been if in telling the story of the gold watch, Hershel just did the word for word speech Christopher Walken gave in Pulp Fiction. "I hid it... my ass. I carried this uncomfortable hunk of metal up my ass for years..."

T-Dogg sightings this week, but damn man, give a brother some dialogue! I wanted to know what T-Dogg thinks in the Randall life or death debate.

Oh man! I can't believe they killed Dale! Walker ripped his guts right open. That was Carl's Walker, right? Carl somehow lead that Walker right into the farm.

"Sorry, brother." I concur, Dale.



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Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 79 days
Last activity: 77 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.83
Paul Dale. He had nowhere left to DeMunn.

So, why couldn't they have just kept Randall tied up in the barn for the forseeable future? What as so pressing about this situation that it HAD to be "kill him or set him free"?

Dale's untimely death should result in two things: a)Andrea realising that she has lost her humanity and subsequently turning away from Shane, leaving him totally isolated, and b)T-Dogg will grow a huge mountain man beard in honour of his fallen comrade. Only one of these will actually happen.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.13
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran

    So, why couldn't they have just kept Randall tied up in the barn for the forseeable future? What as so pressing about this situation that it HAD to be "kill him or set him free"?



They were worried about having enough food to feed him, and they were also worried about him getting loose. Personally, I'm with Shane on this one. Randall's waaay too dangerous to just keep hanging around. Thirty bad dudes with heavy weapons is a threat you don't want hanging over your group.
Wpob
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Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 21 hours
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.90
First off, they killed off one of my LEAST favorite characters in a way that was fit for Dale. Good ridance. Now if only Lori would meet a worse fate the show would get better for me.

As a parent, I can honestly say there is NO F-ING WAY I would let my 10 year old son walk around for hours unattedned in a world filled with zombies. I don;t let my kids out of my sight for too long at the park let alone the woods. What the hell is Lori doing all day that she can't keep tabs on Carl? She is a horrible mother. How no one on this show sees that is a joke. Then when she KNOWS Rick iis going to kill Randall, she loses sight of him AGAIN!!! And Rick isn't pissed at her? I would have been furious with my wife if that happened. Seriously, what does Lori have to do to get Rick to say - man she is just not worth it anymore.

If I am Glenn, I would have passed on the watch as it seemed to me to be a ploy by Herschel to get Glenn to stay because he knows he (Herschel) is not long for this world and Maggie needs someone to watch her. A little cheesey for my liking.

Carl needs a beating - BAD. First he almost gets hurt in the barn by Randall, then he back talks to Carol, steals Darryl's gun, sneaks to the execution and eggs his dad on to kill Randall and then is the reason for Dale's death. Poor Rick - the two biggest problems on the farm are his wife and son.

I am with Shane on killing Randall - 30 person gang heavily armed that are raping and killing people? And didn;t Randall say he knew Maggie? So even if they let him go blindfolded, he KNOWS where Maggie lives. The needs of the many right? In a lawless world, you do what you ned to do to keep your group safe. And don;t forget, Randall shot at Herchell, Rick and Glenn at the bar.

I am guessing the two groups will eventually collide. It seems ineveitable.



Life is hilariously cruel.











geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.75
    Originally posted by Wpob
    Then when she KNOWS Rick iis going to kill Randall, she loses sight of him AGAIN!!! And Rick isn't pissed at her? I would have been furious with my wife if that happened.

This was my main problem: They made a big deal about Carl staying away from where they were keeping the prisoner, and wouldn't even let him stay for the conversation about what to do with Randall...yet when they actually go to KILL the guy, somehow, no one in the ENTIRE REST OF THE GROUP bothers to keep an eye on Carl to make sure he doesn't wander off? Carl's involvement made it much more interesting, but to get there, they had to make the rest at the camp look pretty dumb.

And yeah, if I were Rick, as soon as I got back to camp I would've been pissed that they let Carl loose. I expected him to go off on everyone (or at least Lori).

(edited by geemoney on 5.3.12 0910)


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Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 79 days
Last activity: 77 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.83
Well, Dale's all deaded up now, so there's one less mouth to feed. Keep the dangerous one-legged teenager in the barn and feed him instead of killing a defenceless, idiotic human being.

The great thing about this show is how it allows pasty internet types to get all coldblooded and talk about they'd be totally badass and merciless like Shane, when in actual fact most of us would probably just wear a baseball hat and cry like Glenn or busy ourselves digging graves like T-Dogg. It's the ultimate gift to anonymous internet tough guys.

You just know ol' one-hand Merle is going to be leading Team Rape when they rock up for the big finale.
Wpob
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Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 21 hours
Last activity: 15 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.90
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    You just know ol' one-hand Merle is going to be leading Team Rape when they rock up for the big finale.


He HAS to be. If not then the whole roof scene in season one was a waste.

As a father of a daughter and a husband, the second I heard the other group was raping women/daughters and making husbands and fathers watch, I would have put a bullet in Randall's head no questions asked. When Randall told that story it gave me the creeps because that is something the two guys in the bar (forgot their names already) would have done.

I understand Rick's hesistancy when Carl was watching, but I would have pulled the trigger a lot sooner and avoided the confrontation all together.



Life is hilariously cruel.











John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 82 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
The Walking Dead does ordinary people fighting zombies as well as humanly possible on television, but it's episodes like this where the flaws of the show's writing are exposed.

As already said, there's no logic to the way Carl is allowed to behave and how he isn't monitored by everyone. I mean, sure, kids will be kids and they can be sneaky and crafty if they want to be, but this kid, as we all know and keep bringing up, should still be recovering from being shot in the chest. He's just allowed to run wild. It was established episodes ago that Walkers are kept at bay because there are "fences" so the farm is secure. Yet a quick jaunt through the woods by Carl reveal there are Walkers readily about. Plus the reason everyone is on guard and freaking out about killing Randall is there's a threat of a large heavily armed group in the vicinity. It's ridiculous how no one is watching Carl, especially in the wake of losing Sophia, who ran off and became a Walker.

The other big issue is the big philosophical debate, which wasn't really a debate. Granted, these characters are supposed to be just ordinary folk with nothing in common thrown together for survival's sake. This is not a living room full of Captain Picards debating Captain Kirks over the finer points of humanity and the needs of the many. But while I feel Dale made some valid basic points, no one had a counterpoint, besides Rick's "We're doing it! We're doing it! I hear what you're saying. Anyone else got anything to say? No? Fine. We're doing it!" Again, I'm not expecting passionate speechifying from anyone (well, maybe T-Dogg - that would have torn down the house), but most of those characters never felt more like empty shells. As as already begun here in this thread, there are numerous holes to poke as to the urgency and logic of why Randall had to be executed that very night.



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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
The best way to handle both the Dale and the Randall problem is simple, allow ZOMBIE DALE to happen, bring him to the barn, let him create ZOMBIE RANDAL, and then kill them both. That way, Dale's vision for how they should handle live people is settled. As he was groaning and moaning on the ground, it would have been nice to have Dale say SOMETHING. No matter what he said, his death proved the cold hard fact that no matter how nice and civilized you are, a walker doesn't care.

What's going to happen when Darryl needs his pistol, and can't find it?

T-Dogg is alive! YAY! And, nobody has mentioned Andrea doing her best John Kerry Flip Flopping about what to do. She needs to just hop in the Kia with Shane and be gone.

My wife was upset that I was so happy when Dale got attacked, but he was a unrealistic person living in a horrible world.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.75
    Originally posted by StaggerLee


    My wife was upset that I was so happy when Dale got attacked, but he was a unrealistic person living in a horrible world.

And to me, that's almost why he was needed: As a reminder that this used to be a society, that the people living in it were once just like you and I. I don't think the show wants to lose sight of that, because at the moment viewers get used to it being people killing zombies as if it were a video game, or it gets more and more like a fantasy TV show or movie, I think it somewhat hurts what the show is trying to be (or was trying to be). In that regard, I'm a little surprised they killed him.

(edited by geemoney on 5.3.12 1352)


@gregmparks - live Tweeting of Raw and Impact, wrestling thoughts and other slices of life.
Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 427 days
Last activity: 156 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.41
I don't really get all of the Shane love and Dale hate. Could be my comic fandom coloring things, but it just seems like TWD has drawn in a bunch of dumbass fans who want to see zombies in every scene and everyone acting like Ash.
The Guinness.
Morcilla








Since: 24.4.05
From: San Diego, CA

Since last post: 2 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.69
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    I don't really get all of the Shane love and Dale hate. Could be my comic fandom coloring things, but it just seems like TWD has drawn in a bunch of dumbass fans who want to see zombies in every scene and everyone acting like Ash.


To be fair, in the books there is no room to build any love for Shane. In the show Shane has been able to grow as a character that lives by a different moral code. It makes sense to me that people would be able to empathize with and support him.

Also, TWD is not drawing dumbass fans. It is however causing some of the pretentious fans that read the book to become very snarky. The series took a turn from the book way before season 2 even got started. I expect that it will weave in and out of the continuity that was established in the book as the story moves forward. However I think that it is important to realize that this has become a show that more inspired by the comic and characters than it is a direct adaptation.

For the record. There is a lot of Zombie killing in the books. Although I like the overall pace of the show, a little more zombie killing wouldn't hurt the show at all. If they matched what they executed on last week people would be able to better build a sense that this is a show more about the survival of the zombie Apocalypse.

As far as this weeks episode....That look in Dale's eye as he moved his head towards the end of the gun just screamed "it's ok, shoot me. I don't want to become one of them." best bit of acting by this man since the show started. Pretty good episode overall.




superfurry
Chipolata








Since: 18.7.10
From: Worcester, UK

Since last post: 149 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
Carl is inheriting his mother's annoying character traits, and then some. I'd rather those two had got annihilated rather than Dale. I liked Dale. The group needed a wise old man, and I don't think Herschel is going to take up that role in his absence. I found it a slow episode, annoying at times, but that last three minutes or so was F'n dramatic.



twitter: @superfurry316
theremin
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Since: 31.1.12

Since last post: 115 days
Last activity: 5 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.14
Dale was a fantastic character in the comics. Now that he's dead in the show, I suppose it's ok to talk about how Dale and Andrea were a couple, and what would be seasons down the line, he got bit by a walker, didn't tell anyone and went off into the woods to die.

And we can't blame this one on the show runners, or some sort of decision to alter things from the comic.

DeMunn was in every film Frank Darabont directed. Frank Darabont left and then DeMunn left. I don't think it takes a genius or a conspiracy theorist to figure out what happened.

The real problem I see with the changes in the show are the way they are changing what's happening, but seem to want to retain the characters major attributes, which can come off as confusing and lead to some of these complaints from non-comic readers. By this time in the series, Carl has been in several really hairy situations and killed (I believe) two people. He's clearly having a hard time finding a moral compass. I think that's still what they're trying to portray with him now, but he hasn't gone through the things that make these actions make sense.

I'm pretty sure if this execution was happening at this time in the comics, like Game of Thrones, Rick might have even let Carl watch.

Yet, interestingly enough, in this week's Walking Dead comic, Carl was recently judged and found to be of stellar character.

It is nice, given all the changes that sometimes I have no idea what's coming next. If I remember right, it's the walkers in the barn that drive them off the farm, so I wonder what's gonna happen now. With the kid, with his gang, when Dale's brother is gonna show up, etc.

Tenken347
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.13
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    I don't really get all of the Shane love and Dale hate.


Well, looking at the world of the show, sometimes I think that Shane has the right idea, but as I've said in threads for previous episodes, I mostly think he's reckless and impulsive, and just as dangerous as he is helpful. On this particular issue I take his side, but I also thought that he was way in the wrong shooting Otis and that he could have handled Barnmageddon much better. I like Dale, but he was becoming increasingly unrealistic in his beliefs as the world he used to live in crumbled away bit by bit. Honestly, he couldn't have survived much longer on the show without changing his outlook on the world, so I think overall his death was the best use of the character in this circumstance. Not to mention, it was pretty unexpected, and I think it's good to keep the audience on our toes.
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
    Originally posted by theremin
    Dale was a fantastic character in the comics. Now that he's dead in the show, I suppose it's ok to talk about how Dale and Andrea were a couple, and what would be seasons down the line, he got bit by a walker, didn't tell anyone and went off into the woods to die.




I haven't read the comics, but this is where I thought they were going with the last scene. Seeing Dale's stomach ripped open was quite a surprise, but I thought it was well done and got the threat of the Zombies over more. Up until now I kind of assumed that they just stumbled on you and tried to bite. It also ended with a nice visual with Darryl standing over him with the gun.

It's also nice to see rations finally coming into play. The winter is coming, there are mouths to feed and Andrea complaining about ammo are all nice touches that add to make the situation more dire and less like finding the next fully stocked Dharma drop.

I also liked seeing a different side to Andrea and I feel bad for Carol. Anytime someone has pent up frustrations she gets lashed out on.

Carl wandering away during the execution aside I thought it was another well done episode.

theremin
Head cheese








Since: 31.1.12

Since last post: 115 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.14
Andrea's actions at the end seemed like one of those perfect moments that seemed to be infused with the knowledge of the comics. When they looked at each other, I could almost imagine a complete occurrence at owl creek scenario where what could have been between them played through their minds as he was dying.

Brilliant adaptations, like L.A. Confidential, are able to weave their differences in such a way to appeal to people that are familiar with the work and those that aren't. I know it was only a few seconds in time, but i felt like that was a shining moment of brilliance.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.14
One would be rather be surprised by Dale's death, but when fucking facebook ruins it for you, you don't get to surprised. I think Carl being a pain in the ass teenager should have been the title of the show. Also as a fan of the comic books, I don't know how I feel about Dale being dead and other characters being alive. While people don't like Dale, I am not a giant a fan of Shane, either. Shane is a short term solution and does not think long term if they killed Randall, they wouldn't know about the heavily armed group. If he hadn't killed Otis, they would known about Sophia. Shane is a bit of idiot. Dale while was annoying, he did have some good points and I don't see a problem with trying to keep humanity. I agree with Amos, there is a lot of internet tough when it comes to this show, but there is a reason we have some zombies on this show.

As for everyone thinking Merele is coming back. No, not after last week's casting news. Its worse, much much worse.

(edited by lotjx on 5.3.12 1939)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
theremin
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Since: 31.1.12

Since last post: 115 days
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.68
well, while we learned that Michael Rooker is not the Governor, we don't know that he won't be back. I was wondering if Rooker might be in charge of this gang of 30, and then the Governor is someone else.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 17 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73

I liked Dale and I like Shane. Is that weird? I liked Dale for his wisdom and morality, which somehow comes across as more viable and authentic than Rick, the one-dimensionally ethical cliche character that is always in these kinds of shows/movies. Shane is fun because he's sort of a selectively amoral badass and has the kind of dickhead charisma that you just can't teach. If they got rid of Shane, there wouldn't be a show. I hate Carl and hope he gets eaten. I'm also wondering if Lori's car crash is a way to create a miscarriage. Should be a fun last couple eps...But if the one-handed racist hick gets to come back and kill T-Dogg, I'm fucking done with this show.





Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
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Related threads: The Walking Dead 2x10 - "18 Miles Out" - The Walking Dead 2x9 - "Triggerfinger" - The Walking Dead 2x8 - "Nebraska" - More...
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