This contains spoilers about happenings in the movie. Don't read if you don't wanna know.
Went to the midnight show here in Holland and I came out with a weird feeling about the movie..
On one hand I really liked the look, vibe and effects of the movie. The battles were amazing, Gollum looked very realistic and is a great character, and all other special effects (treebeard for instance) were great too.
But.. I had some trouble accepting the changes Jackson made compared to the book. No, I am not talking about Eomer coming to the rescue instead of this other Rohan guy, or the 'flashbacks' to Aragorn and Arwen, but the additions he made that weren't in the book. Things like Faramir taking Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath (dont feel like checking the spelling now) or the happenings in the court of Theoden, or Aragorn being seperated from the rest.
Does this mean I disliked the movie? Hell no?!!! In fact, the more I think about it, the less I care about some changes and the more I liked the movie. I think I will have to go see it again asap and see how I feel then :)
"The battles were amazing, Gollum looked very realistic and is a great character"
Totally agree here. Gollum was awesome, especially in the scenes where he had the inner struggle going on regarding the ring and whether or not he should take it. With these scenes, we were really able to see what the Ring has done to Gollum and what it could end up doing/is already doing to Frodo.
"and all other special effects (treebeard for instance) were great too."
Eck. Treebeard was really, really dumb looking and it was the one thing I really couldn't stand from the movie. It reminded me of cheesy 80's effects, and that's not a good thing!
Speaking of cheesy 80's effects -- I'm going out to buy the Back To The Future Trilogy...
(my quick thoughts from an earlier posting elsewhere)
My initial action to the picture is that I agree with Heidi and liked #1 better. I sat for a few minutes in the plex trying to figure out why.
Maybe it was the disjointed narrative -- just when one plot gets interesting, things jump to one of the other two.
Maybe it was the knowledge that the filmmakers had changed some of the storylines to suit the purposes of the film.
Or maybe it was just because I'm beginning to get the flu and my attention span wasn't up to snuff.
This may sound sacriligious, but I really don't care about Frodo and taking the ring to Mount Doom. I really just wanted the movie to stay with Aragorn and Legolas and Gimbli.
Boy, was Brad Dourif great. I CANNOT WAIT until the end of movie # 3, when we get the epilogue in the Shire with (good guys) and (bad guys).
As great as Helm's Deep was, I loved the Isengarden fight almost as much. Love those ents.
-- How long til # 3?
You're all so WONDERFUL. Why did they ever have to remove you from the continuity? You'd have made for MARVELOUS stories. You WILL make marvelous stories. And the FIRST story of the new world will be a story of REVENGE! -- The Psycho Pirate, Animal Man 23, May 1990.
Aragorn definitely became the star of the series in this movie, IMO. As great as Elijah Wood has been in the Frodo role, Vitto Whatshisname has become THAT much greater in his role as Aragorn. All the reviews I went through before the movie said the same thing, and I truly believe it now that I've seen it with my own eyes.
I confirm as well, the movie is great, but I felt like something was missing. I was so caught up with how great everything looked from the books that I really was caught up in the movie. This time, I was left with a good, but flat feeling. I liked the battles, but it wasn't as good as the Mines of Moria or the last battle in Fellowship. It fet like every time Aragon, Legalos and Gimili did a cool fight there someone standing right in front of the camera to distort the view. It got annoying. I liked the Ents, but I agree they felt as the special effects team did just enough to get it right and let it go. They seemed more focus on Jackson's cinematrography that changed every once.
I thought Gollum was incrediable good and should get some sort of nomination for Best Supporting Actor. I found the Frodo/Sam/Gollum story fustruating in the book, so less of them in the movie was a good idea. Focusing on Aragon, Gimili and Legalos was a great idea as Gimili/Legalos made a nice comedy/action team. I didn't mind any changes to the book as I said before I found the second part of Two Towers the book fustruating to read to the point I stopped reading it. I picked up Return of the King a few years later and enjoyed that much more. I don't mind too many changes from the books as long as they A) Move the story along B) Cannot be done C) Eliminate garbage. I think Jackson as done a great job on all three.
A Fan- I thought the fall of Isengrad was the best action scene of the film, the best scene was Sam telling Farmir what happened to Boromir, was priceless since Farmir went from cocky asshole to realizing he was making a huge ass mistake.
No no no, best scene was... *grappling hook to chest* AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
In all seriousness, Two Towers and Return of the King are, by nature, immensely more difficult to translate to the big screen because there's two equally important storylines progressing simultaneously. In the two novels, the stories are split between the two books that make up each but obviously that can't be done in movie form, hence the odd jumping back and forth at times.
And it may have been 6 or 7 years since I've read the books, but I KNOW Aragorn & Co. are supposed to be at Isengard sometime soon, and I was expecting them there the entire movie so when the end came, I was surprised.
Overall, great stuff. Gollum was very good despite being slightly Binksish at the very first. His inner turmoil was very well done. It would be a nice touch to the last movie to share his background story.
I don't believe they are doing the scouring of the Shire in the movies. Jackson has gone on record saying that since they showed the clip in the first movie of the scouring, there was no need for it. Since they don't show that, expect Wormtongue and Saruman to end up meeting their end in some other way.
I've seen the movie twice in the last two days and let me tell you, it's amazing. Quite possibly the best of the year (along with Punch-Drunk Love). I enjoyed the movie the second time better b/c I was so in awe of it last night that I couldn't focus. I completely "marked out"
Think Andy Serkis has a chance for best supporting actor?
Spoilers? Isn't that hard to do considering the books were written some 50 to 60 years ago... These spoilers are just a tad late, wouldn't you say. Hehehe...
Anyways, Yet again, Peter Jackson has pulled of another movie of the year contender, giving him a total of 4 film directed by him being absolutely incredible.(including Two Towers, Fellowship, Heavenly Creatures, and the Frighteners which was AWESOME!!!) If Return of the King follows suit, which we can only guess that it will, thats 5 non stinkers in a row, and very few filmmakers can claim to have done that.
Funny aside: I went today with a friend of mine named Joe, and Joe didn't like Fellowship all that much. He said that it 'looked' great and 'sounds' great, but that the actimg just wasn't up to the standards set by the filmmaking. This time, we sat there, he didn't say a word throught the whole film, which is quite rare for him, and after it was over, we got up and started heading out to the car, him still not saying a word. We get in the car and now, I'm getting kinda freaked, cause he ALWAYS has some kinda stupid remark about anything we see together. So we pull out of the parking lot at the mall and he's just sitting here at a light, he turns to me and says "I get it. It's not that they weren't any good in the first one, but they were slowly building up the characters in stead of just going 'BANG here I am, I'm the character!'. Most films that were books first treat the viewer like they should already know the character, but with these films, they're starting from scratch as if you haven't read the books. Every actor should do this."
All in all, for once, he had NOTHING bad to say about it, which is really creepy...
I merely suggested, that you had the driving ability of a brain dead labratory ape.
I was wondering when Shelob would appear, and the moment Sam did his talk about adventurerers not knowing what would happen, and you saw Gandalf and the posse ride I realised that was to be for the next movie.
What a great ending. Forgetting the book for a moment and just thinking of a movie cliff hanger this is so cool.. We already saw Gollum "turned heel" again, and we all know that he has something in store for Frodo & Sam, but we don't know what and where and when.. He has been mentioned (Sauron) but now there is a SHE?
Yeah, Andy Serkis should get an award, especially when you know that he actually did all the scenes for real when they were shot, including the crawling..then spent two months on a blue screen doing them again wearing another special wire suit after which they digitalised him..
Yeah, there were times when I felt that Peter Jackson strayed TOO far from the book. I mean, what the heck are Sam and Frodo doing in Osgiliath? During Sam's monologue about "We shouldn't be here. Something's wrong." I was yelling to myself "Duh!".
And, from the pacing of this movie, I don't think they'll have time to do the scouring of the Shire bit in Return of the King. Le sigh.
Still, good movie.
Fashion Reporter Extraordinare
So I was walking through the woods when some lightning struck a nearby tree. So then I killed Thor and hung Mjolnir on the wall over my fireplace. And then I raised all my stats to 18.
Maniacal clown, I know the She is Shelob. As I said, the cliffhanger was amazing, for the freaks who know what will happen and for those that do NOT know..all 2 of them..leaving them with 'OMG WHO IS SHE????'
ScreamingHeadGuy, they seemed to put half the 2nd book in the first 30 minutes so they could easily pull off the scouring of the Shire if they wanted to..
In the LOTR DVD exteneded edtion, Peter Jackson says he cut out the scorching of the shire. I appluade for such a step, because I too left Tolkien should have just stopped after the battle at Black Gate and the Ring being destroyed.
A Fan- I'm really looking forward to Return of the King now.
<>Anyways, Yet again, Peter Jackson has pulled of another movie of the year contender, giving him a total of 4 film directed by him being absolutely incredible.(including Two Towers, Fellowship, Heavenly Creatures, and the Frighteners which was AWESOME!!!) If Return of the King follows suit, which we can only guess that it will, thats 5 non stinkers in a row, and very few filmmakers can claim to have done that.
You're forgetting Brain Dead (Dead Alive), Forgotten Silver, and Bad Taste. I'll give you Meet the Feebles though, good idea but bad execution. So 6 in a row that are great and 7 total.
(edited by astrobstrd on 21.12.02 1418) "All we are is meat."
Saw it for the second time last night and it was even better! I love this movie. Probably the greatest one I've ever seen. And yes, Gollum was the best part. His eyes, his voice, the inner struggles, I loved it! Awesome stuff!
I have few things to add to this thread, since my sentiments echo most of what has been posted. Great film, but definitely a work SEPERATE from the novels. I know that EVERYTHING can't be done exactly as it was in the originals, but some minor things irked me at first. I have reconciled them in my mind, and I offer the following:
Gollum: Once again, Jackson has continued to pare down the number of characters that actually contribute to the plot. Where are the characters we came to love?
Smeagol: When I first read the books at age 11, there was NO WAY I could keep all of the minor characters straight. Now, of course, 13 years later I see each individual as he or she should be seen. However, this is a feature film. You can't have too many characters in a feature film. Glorfindel's actions were credited to Arwen in the first film, and now Erkenbrand and Eomer become one. This had to be done so that people can keep everyone straight. My girlfriend had enough trouble as it was.
Gollum: Eowyn kicked ASS in the books. Now she just dotes on Aragorn? WTF?
Smeagol: It was always there, but it had to be emphasised for those who like romatic subplots (read "chicks"). I always thought Aragorn should have wanted Eowyn, since she was so much cooler than Arwen. As long as Eowyn picks up a sword (and kicks ass with it) in the next film, I'll be okay.
Gollum: Elves at Helm's Deep?
Smeagol: First, was that supposed to be Glorfindel? I'm not sure. But they had to make this battle bigger. I never imagined it so big, but it was supposed to be this impressive. I saw it as a few hundred led by Aragorn, Theoden, Gimli and Legolas (doing all of the real work) against a thousand or two, but the battle had the same significance in the movie. Of course, it wasn' the Mark holding its own since Elves helped, but it was still impressive.
Gollum: So now you're telling me that Frodo and Sam were at Osgiliath?
Smeagol: Well, since they cut Shelob from this film (a good thing, since Return of the King will need that extra action), there needed to be some action for Frodo and Sam. The scene with Frodo almost giving the ring to the Ringwraith did well to illustarate feelings you only get from Tolkien's descriptions, and not from dialogue. I was kind of pissed that Faramir was so much like Boromir. In the book he is so civil to the Hobbits and lets them go much easier. The one gripe I can't get over is how everyone gets to know about Boromir's attempt to get the ring. In the novels, that's one of Frodo's many secrets. It shows a lot about his character that he doesn't blab that to Sam (when did that happen?) who tells it to Faramir. About the dead, speak nothing but good.
Gollum: Wargs attacked the people on the way to Helm's Deep? Aragorn was lost?
Smeagol: It made for added drama, and we got to see Wargs in action. I got over this one right away. Good choice, Jackson.
Gollum: What about Aragorn, Gimli, Gandalf and Legolas showing up at Isengard?
Smeagol: It'll happen in the next film. I did miss Quickbeam, the Ent, but again, too many characters. Will Pippen and Merry drink ANY Ent draught? I hope so.
Hopefully, this little discussion will help you get over any misgiving you have about Jackson's choices. My next step is to watch Fellowship and Towers in the same day and see if I have any more gripes or if my enjoyment is just multiplied over and over again.
The Elf was Haldir, from Lothlorien. And I think that was one of the best choices he made with the movie. When Haldir died, it was heartbreaking. I've reconciled everything else, but the only thing that I haven't yet:
No Hourns. I'm sorry, I always loved the Battle of Helm's Deep, and it always seemed like a desperate struggle (the first of many to come in the books). And Jackson pulled it off wonderfully up until the end. While Gandalf and the riders were cool, routing 8,000 Uruk-Hai shouldn't look that easy. I kind of wish the trees were involved in the killing of the Uruk's but, I'm seeing it again tomorrow, and I'm sure I'll get over it.
And yes, Jackson totally fucked up Faramir, and I may never forgive him for that. Of course, I'll love him forever for LOTR and Dead Alive, so I doubt it really matters.
Could it be possible that Harmony could be elevated into the 'woman of the group' role for the last few episodes? If nothing else, it'd be nice to see Mercedes McNabb (who's been around since the first episode of Buffy)