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29.7.14 0408
The W - Current Events & Politics - The Syrian resolution
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Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Given the dark cloud gathering over Syria, I thought this was an intriguing piece of gamesmanship:

Syria proposes Mideast free of WMD (CNN)

This UN resolution and suggested treaty have interesting implications. Syria essentially says "So, you're worried about our WMDs? Fine -- they're common knowledge. We'll disarm WMDs voluntarily, if every other country in the region disarms WMDs voluntarily... including Israel. If THEY don't have 'em, WE don't need 'em." End of problem...

...except that if anyone wants to wager that
a) Israel would respond to a disarmament demand with something other than outright laughter, and
b) the US would support a resolution or treaty that would mandate disarmament of Israel,
let me know what your stakes are. I could use some extra cash.

If the US demands Syrian disarmament, then VETOES a resolution that would disarm Syria and its neighbors equally, what message does that send to the world? That the US and its allies get to have WMDs, but the US gets to play world-cop and take them away from whoever they don't approve of. If the US goes after Syria after that, the international outcry would make the arguments over Iraq seem like a global love-in.

Thoughts?



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Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1183 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
VERY interesting political ploy from the Syrians. But they make a good point politically; if Israel didn't have them, Syria wouldn't feel the need for them. Of course, the chances of this happening are equal to that of me starting on the US World Cup team in 2006...




cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 91 days
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#3 Posted on
Of course Israel's position could also be:

We wouldn't need them if we weren't surrounded by fanatics who want to kill us simply for being here.

I don't think that it'll come down to the US either supporting it or not, as conventional wisdom indicates that Israel will shrug this off.

This isn't a problem that's going to have an easy, or even a popular, solution.





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Pool-Boy
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Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#4 Posted on
I am not so sure that itis really something that Isreal would turn down. Militarily, Isreal does not need WMDs... they have proven time and time again that they can more than handle their neighbors in armed conflict.

As far as retaliation goes- It is pretty clear that if any Middle Eastern Nation launched WMDs against Isreal, they would face some pretty serious consequences from the rest of the world- namely us. I can't imagine that especially considering recent events, if Syria or Lebanon hit Isreal with a chem attack, that woul would not support them. And that they would even NEED WMDs to exact their own retrobution.

Sounds like a good start to me.


(edited by Pool-Boy on 17.4.03 1209)



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MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 4 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
I am not so sure that itis really something that Isreal would turn down. Militarily, Isreal does not need WMDs... they have proven time and time again that they can more than handle their neighbors in armed conflict.

Sure they can handle them. But that doesn't mean it's fun, or desireable, and it's not a deterent to the people attacking them. The Arab countries are guilty of some very serious self-delusion, but they aren't so bad that they're going to convince themselves that they can survive a nuclear bomb. It's much better from Israel's point of view to use nukes as a deterent rather than having to fight a war they know they're going to win, but the Arabs don't. I mean, they completely whupped up on the Arabs in 1967, but that didn't stop the Arabs from attacking AGAIN in 1973. And since in the 25 years since the Israelis got nukes, there has been a grand total of 0 attempts to drive the Jews into the sea, as opposed to 3 in the 30 years before they got them.

As far as retaliation goes- It is pretty clear that if any Middle Eastern Nation launched WMDs against Isreal, they would face some pretty serious consequences from the rest of the world- namely us. I can't imagine that especially considering recent events, if Syria or Lebanon hit Isreal with a chem attack, that woul would not support them. And that they would even NEED WMDs to exact their own retrobution.

This may make sense on paper. But stuff in that part of the world is rarely that logical. You have to understand that the Israelis don't trust anyone but themselves, and probably never will. The entire country was founded on essentially that philosophy (which, considering the history of the Jewish people, is not entirely unreasonable). They aren't going to trust other countries (inculding the USA) to defend it, they aren't going to trust the world to support them (no matter what the cicumstances happen to be) and they certainly aren't going to trust Syria enough to ever give up the nuclear deterent.

(edited by MoeGates on 17.4.03 1556)

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Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

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#6 Posted on
Smooth move by Syria. I think it's brilliant and we should back it 100%. If Israel didn't have a nuke program maybe they wouldn't need those 4 billion US tax dollars a year. And if we make an issue of Syrian WMD while ignoring their little play here, it will make us look worse. I would guess supporting it might help us out in the eyes of the Arab world, especially after we just spanked Iraq. Backing it would show that we are really concerned with the WMD and not just as an 'excuse', as some say, to invade Iraq.



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Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

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#7 Posted on
Big kudos to Syria for a brilliant move. We'll never come anywhere close to supporting it, though. I'll even go out on a limb and predict the reason we'll give.

"The United States of America does not negotiate with terrorists."



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Pool-Boy
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Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#8 Posted on
This could backfire on Syria in a big way though. I mean, with Bush harping Iraq's lack of complicity in their agreement to disarm themselves of WMD, 4 years from now (providing Bush gets reelected), Bush could come out with evidence that Syria is indeed, not disarming as it promised it would.

A good move nonetheless however- just another example of why I think we need to forget about this whome WMD thing and focus on the terrorists..





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PalpatineW
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    Big kudos to Syria for a brilliant move. We'll never come anywhere close to supporting it, though. I'll even go out on a limb and predict the reason we'll give.

    "The United States of America does not negotiate with terrorists."



Yeah, seriously. BIG KUDOS to Syria, who I am sure only has the best interests of everyone at heart. Too bad the imperialst US won't play ball with the eminently reasonable and trustworthy Syrians. I mean, Syria, "terrorists." Obviously a Jewish/Neocon plot!



"May God bless our country and all who defend her."

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Hairy Caray
Bauerwurst








Since: 28.10.02
From: Wrigley Field hot dog stand

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#10 Posted on
Everyone is looking at Syria, Israel, and the US right now. What makes everyone think that all the other nations are going to be so compliant? It's a great idea, to be sure, but is it possible?




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Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 112 days
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#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by PalpatineW

      Originally posted by Nate The Snake
      Big kudos to Syria for a brilliant move. We'll never come anywhere close to supporting it, though. I'll even go out on a limb and predict the reason we'll give.

      "The United States of America does not negotiate with terrorists."



    Yeah, seriously. BIG KUDOS to Syria, who I am sure only has the best interests of everyone at heart. Too bad the imperialst US won't play ball with the eminently reasonable and trustworthy Syrians. I mean, Syria, "terrorists." Obviously a Jewish/Neocon plot!



Bleh. To me it looks like this:

George Bush, representing the US, goes around saying, "We here in the United States are dedicated to protecting puppies all over the world!" And the Syrian government says, "Look, we are not bad. We have a puppy. It is cute and fluffy, see?" Now we are just waiting to see if George is going to kick the puppy.

-Jag



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cokeman
Chorizo








Since: 12.4.03
From: nj (back from iraq)

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#12 Posted on
i love that analogy.



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The Thrill
Banger








Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

Since last post: 103 days
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#13 Posted on

"America may have some problems, but it's our home. Our team. And if you don't wanna root for your team...then you should get the hell out of the stadium. Go America." --Stan Marsh, South Park

This isn't that new a ploy. There've been lots of proposals over the years (mostly by Arab nations, I believe) to make the Middle East a nuclear-free zone. Syria just expanded it this time to include all WMDs.

I doubt it's going anywhere. No way would Israel give up its main deterrent against another Arab attack...assuming the fractured Arab nations' governments could even conduct joint operations.

Sez me.



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Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

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#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Yeah, seriously. BIG KUDOS to Syria, who I am sure only has the best interests of everyone at heart. Too bad the imperialst US won't play ball with the eminently reasonable and trustworthy Syrians. I mean, Syria, "terrorists." Obviously a Jewish/Neocon plot!


...riiiiight. Did you change the filter before you made your coffee this morning?



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#15 Posted on
The coyote goes...Israeli deterrant? Didn't the UN set up Israel in the first place? Why should anybody want to invade there?



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messenoir
Summer sausage








Since: 20.2.02
From: Columbia, MO

Since last post: 459 days
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#16 Posted on
Yeah, seriously. BIG KUDOS to Syria, who I am sure only has the best interests of everyone at heart. Too bad the imperialst US won't play ball with the eminently reasonable and trustworthy Syrians. I mean, Syria, "terrorists." Obviously a Jewish/Neocon plot!


Of course they don't have everyone's best interests at heart but their own. Didn't they admit themselves they had WMDs? But wasn't their point that Israel also has WMDs and only has the interests of Israel at heart? Shouldn't the point be we need to treat all countries fairly and on a level playing field? Shouldn't we at some point stop pointing at various countries and saying "This one is evil, this one is good" and instead realize the entire world, including the US, Israel and Syria is basically going to hell in a handbasket and work to improve all countries equally?

(edited by messenoir on 20.4.03 0927)
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I don't think that's the case. The 5th Amendment (applicable to the states through the 14th Amendment) says "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
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